The Money Masters

[imstellar28]

It doesn't seem that bad because its all you've ever known. You've grown up in this system, and by the looks of it, you'll die in it too. You don't have any reference to compare it to so you are happy to stroll along the way things are. Just because you can get by as it is doesn't mean you should.

For millions of Americans, however, the conditions are unacceptable even without comparison.

Why is it that we seek to constantly invent and innovate, evolving the toys we use, but not ourselves or our society as a whole?

 

[Yurebiz]

The Fed is not private.

You make CTers cry.

Ok, so how do you propose that the roads, welfare, medicare, and all the other tax funded programs be taken care of, if you eliminate income tax. You think big business is gonna donate to a welfare program? You think big business is gonna fit the bill for roads?

Ok, so what qualifies someone as a "proponent" of greed, poverty, and malice? Does Mark Cuban fit this bill? if so why? Does Murdock? if so, why?, does Bill Gates, if so, why? how do you define (you need to define it as you are planning on criminally/civily charging these people) a "proponent" of such things?

So you are not a communist, but an anti-capitalist...ah I like the GREY.

Sure, let the govt print the money, then you can blame them for that too.

These suggestions you have made will never happen, so why not come up with some sensible ideas that might actually have a chance of coming to be.

TAM

I think he's a capitalist. He supports the money system we have, just not the way it's printed by a private corporation. Nor it being supported by debt.
IMO money should be either be supported by the trust of the people alone, OR by limited reserves like gold. But if gold is currently monopolized by a few, I guess it's not a good idea to go back to them. I dunno about silver.
I still have much to learn though.

Wow, nobody's ever lueved me before!

It's teh interwebz luev!

 

[imstellar28]

Ok, so how do you propose that the roads, welfare, medicare, and all the other tax funded programs be taken care of, if you eliminate income tax. You think big business is gonna donate to a welfare program? You think big business is gonna fit the bill for roads?

Ok, so what qualifies someone as a "proponent" of greed, poverty, and malice? Does Mark Cuban fit this bill? if so why? Does Murdock? if so, why?, does Bill Gates, if so, why? how do you define (you need to define it as you are planning on criminally/civily charging these people) a "proponent" of such things?

So you are not a communist, but an anti-capitalist...ah I like the GREY.

Sure, let the govt print the money, then you can blame them for that too.

These suggestions you have made will never happen, so why not come up with some sensible ideas that might actually have a chance of coming to be.

TAM

Roads/transportation: paid for by the 42 cents/gallon gas tax
Education: paid for by property tax
Defense/Miliatry: paid for by corporate tax on capital gains
State expenditures: paid for by 5% sales tax

There are over 140 voluntary taxes that pay for everything we need as citizens

What exactly do you think is left for the income tax to pay for?

 

[T.A.M.]

You make CTers cry.


I think he's a capitalist. He supports the money system we have, just not the way it's printed by a private corporation. Nor it being supported by debt.
IMO money should be either be supported by the trust of the people alone, OR by limited reserves like gold. But if gold is currently monopolized by a few, I guess it's not a good idea to go back to them. I dunno about silver.
I still have much to learn though.

It's teh interwebz luev!

Thank you for your calm, rational, non-offensive post.


The subject of "money printing" is not one I am overly familiar with...tell me, this private corp that PRINTS the money, do they decide how much, and how often to print it?

TAM

 

[T.A.M.]

Roads/transportation: paid for by the 42 cents/gallon gas tax
Education: paid for by property tax
Defense/Miliatry: paid for by corporate tax on capital gains
State expenditures: paid for by 5% sales tax

There are over 140 voluntary taxes that pay for everything we need as citizens

What exactly do you think is left for the income tax to pay for?

SO what pays the interest on the money borrowed by govt to pay for things RIGHT AWAY!!

TAM

 

[imstellar28]

“Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws.”
—Amschel Mayer Rothschild

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
—Thomas Jefferson

“Paper is poverty…it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself.”
—Thomas Jefferson

“100% of what is collected [through federal income taxes] is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal Debt … all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services taxpayers expect from government.”
—Grace Commission

 

[Yurebiz]

Thank you for your calm, rational, non-offensive post.


The subject of "money printing" is not one I am overly familiar with...tell me, this private corp that PRINTS the money, do they decide how much, and how often to print it?

TAM

Tee hee I'm less moody today.
And yeah you got the catch.

 

[imstellar28]

SO what pays the interest on the money borrowed by govt to pay for things RIGHT AWAY!!

TAM

If private banks didn't loan us money we wouldn't need to pay interest to them...thats the whole purpose of the government printing its own money instead of delegating that responsibility to a private organization aka the Federal Reserve.

 

[T.A.M.]

Tee hee I'm less moody today.
And yeah you got the catch.

So the catch, is it that the govt still controls how much and how often (if so, I have no issue with who puts ink to paper)? or is it the same corp who prints it, that decides how much and how often (not so pleased with that one, unless that is the only thing they do, with no ties to other companies).

TAM

 

[332nd]

It doesn't seem that bad because its all you've ever known. You've grown up in this system, and by the looks of it, you'll die in it too. You don't have any reference to compare it to so you are happy to stroll along the way things are. Just because you can get by as it is doesn't mean you should.

For millions of Americans, however, the conditions are unacceptable even without comparison.

Why is it that we seek to constantly invent and innovate, evolving the toys we use, but not ourselves or our society as a whole?

So kids should get a house and $50,000 at age 18? Let's say we do away with income tax, everybody get's to keep all of their money. Now aside from the services that T.A.M mentioned, what happens to the people that never made enough money to pay taxes in the first place? They are still poor, still in the millions.

 

[imstellar28]

Heres what happens:

1. We need money so we ask the federal reserve to lend us some
2. The federal reserve prints money out of thin air (ever since 1970)
3. They give us the paper they just created out of thin air and charge us interest on it indefinitely knowing we can never pay it back.


Why not skip the middleman and print the money out of thin air ourselves? Or better yet, stop printing money out of thin air and achieve some fiscal responsibility by severely limiting the powers of the government.

 

[T.A.M.]

SO how is it proposed, without borrowing money from banks, etc, that the USA get out of its current financial debt...declare bankruptcy for the entire nation?

Are you suggesting that the USG take over the printing of the money, print a whole bunch, and give it to their creditors?

TAM

 

[T.A.M.]

Heres what happens:

1. We need money so we ask the federal reserve to lend us some
2. The federal reserve prints money out of thin air (ever since 1970)
3. They give us the paper they just created out of thin air and charge us interest on it indefinitely knowing we can never pay it back.


Why not skip the middleman and print the money out of thin air ourselves? Or better yet, stop printing money out of thin air and achieve some fiscal responsibility by severely limiting the powers of the government.

SO if you limit the powers of govt, who will GOVERN the people? Are you forgetting these were elected officials. What do you suggest? What powers do you think should come away from the govt, and where should said powers then be sent?

TAM

 

[332nd]

Heres what happens:

1. We need money so we ask the federal reserve to lend us some
2. The federal reserve prints money out of thin air (ever since 1970)
3. They give us the paper they just created out of thin air and charge us interest on it indefinitely knowing we can never pay it back.


Why not skip the middleman and print the money out of thin air ourselves? Or better yet, stop printing money out of thin air and achieve some fiscal responsibility by severely limiting the powers of the government.

Oh yes we do need to reduce government spending In fact that's what the Grace Commission was about.

 

[imstellar28]

So kids should get a house and $50,000 at age 18? Let's say we do away with income tax, everybody get's to keep all of their money. Now aside from the services that T.A.M mentioned, what happens to the people that never made enough money to pay taxes in the first place? They are still poor, still in the millions.

Lets say you are making minimum wage at $6/hr thats almost 13,000 a year or 1,000 a month. After a few years you get promoted and are making $8-10 an hour, now you are making 16-20,000 a year. You get to keep 100% of it because you arent paying income taxes.

So your income is now 1,000 a month for 3 years and jumps to 2,000 after that. How many people do you know making 1,500 a month? That is the equivalent of almost a $35,000-$40,000 a year job in our current system.

living off $1,000 dollars a month isn't so bad if you are at the absolute bottom of the ladder, and after a few years your pay could increase to almost $1,500 a month which is certainly doable.

 

[imstellar28]

SO if you limit the powers of govt, who will GOVERN the people? Are you forgetting these were elected officials. What do you suggest? What powers do you think should come away from the govt, and where should said powers then be sent?

TAM

When does the federal government ever govern your life specifically? The majority of the time you only see the effects of the state government, our government should be largely transparent to us.

A large government fosters a nation of underdeveloped infants who expect someone to take care of them from cradle to grave.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Lets say you are making minimum wage at $6/hr thats almost 13,000 a year or 1,000 a month. After a few years you get promoted and are making $8-10 an hour, now you are making 16-20,000 a year. You get to keep 100% of it because you arent paying income taxes.
<snip>

Well, no, because you're now paying an extra $0.42/gallon on gas, an extra 5% state sales tax, and more property taxes.

TANSTAAFL

 

[imstellar28]

SO how is it proposed, without borrowing money from banks, etc, that the USA get out of its current financial debt...declare bankruptcy for the entire nation?

Are you suggesting that the USG take over the printing of the money, print a whole bunch, and give it to their creditors?

TAM

I'm suggesting we dissolve the federal reserve, IRS, and abolish the income tax. Charge those involved in the swindling of the American people (bush, cheney, private bank execs, etc.) with treason or civil lawsuits to the tune of 8 trillion, 998 billion, give the power of printing currency back to the people, educate people on why this happened, and return to a constitutionally driven, limited government which serves its people.

 

[T.A.M.]

We already pay 6% sales tax (GST) up north...

TAM

 

[332nd]

Lets say you are making minimum wage at $6/hr thats almost 13,000 a year or 1,000 a month. After a few years you get promoted and are making $8-10 an hour, now you are making 16-20,000 a year. You get to keep 100% of it because you arent paying income taxes.

So your income is now 1,000 a month for 3 years and jumps to 2,000 after that. How many people do you know making 1,500 a month? That is the equivalent of almost a $35,000-$40,000 a year job in our current system.

living off $1,000 dollars a month isn't so bad if you are at the absolute bottom of the ladder, and after a few years your pay could increase to almost $1,500 a month which is certainly doable.

Well that's great assuming everything stays the same price.