Were the firefighters in on it???

Quad4_72

AI-EE-YAH!
Quad4_72
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Nov 7, 2006
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I know this has been discussed before, but I want to ATTEMPT to get a CF stance on whether or not the firefighters were in on it. If you ask a CF what they think, they will simply cry out "We never said they were in on it!". This of course is contradictory to other claims that they make. For example, if they think that when Larry Silverstein said to "Pull it" that meant demolish the building, that would mean that the firefighters would HAVE to know something. Either they were directly involved in planting the mysterious silent explosives or knew that it was going on. Plus according to various "eyewitness accounts" there were firefighters openly discussing the demolition of WTC7, telling people to get back from the tower because it was going to be "blown up".

CFs always try to tip toe around the subject, never wanting to openly accuse the FDNY. The reason for this is obvious. You see, it is so simple to accuse the government because it is so large and they treat it as an entity, never singling out certain people (Well they do sometimes, and usually regret it). But they know that if they accuse the FDNY, there will be outrage and that they might actually have to talk to real people.

So basically, the CFs are cowards. According to their claims, they DO think that the FDNY was in on it or at least knew about it. They think this, but refuse to acknowledge it publicly. It is so much easier to accuse the big bad government of murder but they won't directly accuse the FDNY because a face can be put with their names.

Any CFs care to refute that? I am all ears (eyes if you will).
 
A lot of their claims implicate the FDNY and they don't even know it. Most truthers who don't know much about the subject, for example, will mention the "Pull it" quote, and forget that Larry Silverstein said the fire department commander decided to pull.

They will say "PULL IT = DESTROY BUILDING!", but then when you say "But the fire department commander made the decision to "pull", are you saying the FDNY commander decided to demolish the building"? And of course the response is "I never said the FDNY was involved!".

But yes, I am interested in the answer from some of our resident truthers.
 
no, you are all green and plastic-y.

But I understand where you're coming from. It's easy for a CF'er to say "they knew beforehand" but to back that up with " they weren't in on it". I find it offending that a CF'er can use a firefighter's knowledge of buildings and distort the idea that because they believe a building will collapse, (which is the case of WTC 7) somehow they got insider information, but... wasn't in on "zee plaught"
 
It we are to apply reason and common sense, then clearly the firefighters must bave been implicated in any demolition. But we aren't in the realm of reason and common sense.

The way conspiracists work is to pick the facts they like, and ignore the rest. The opinions and actions of the firefighters are of no use to them, so they are ignored, except for the occasional quote mentioning explosions.

It will not be possible to pin them down on this any more than on anything else. They will insist that WTC7 was not about to collapse until it was blown up, and they will not address the quotes from firemen saying it was on the verge of collapse. They might allow briefly that some firemen were mistaken.

That doesn't mean that it's a fruitless argument - just that the idea is never to get conspiracists to admit anything, because they never will. The aim is always to expose them, and to prevent their ideas gaining acceptance. Quoting the firemen repeatedly is a good way to do this.
 
I just think its funny how the twoofies know damn well that they think the firefighters were in on it but they don't dare accuse them in public. They have no spines, and are complete cowards.
 
The Idiot Movement cannot answer this question. But they've been burned by it before, so they will probably refuse to comment.

About a month ago I demonstrated one of the Idiot Movement leaders making this assertion to local malcontent Without Rights, who had claimed that he'd seen no one make such claims except for "slanderous hit pieces." His reaction almost defies belief. This is the kind of non-rebuttal you can expect from the Idiot Movement.

It's precisely cases like this, where a series of indisputable facts cannot be explained away except through changing the subject, that demonstrate the inviability of the Idiot Movement. Five and a half years, and they can't come up with any excuse. Either they're wrong, or the FDNY was in on it. It's that simple.
 
David Ray Griffin tells us:

There is, in any case, only one theory that explains both the nature and the expectation of the collapse of building 7: Explosives had been set, and someone who knew this spread the word to the fire chiefs.
http://911review.com/articles/griffin/nyc1.html
Click to expand...

Read the whole thing. He's not entirely clear about it, but I think he's saying that the fire chiefs were notified about the explosives in advance, and therefore exaggerated talk of WTC7 fires, damage etc to cover it up. If true, then Griffin's saying the fire chiefs are in on the coverup explicitly, and therefore the other firefighters are implicitly going along with it because they're not exposing the true story.
 
MikeW said:
David Ray Griffin tells us:



Read the whole thing. He's not entirely clear about it, but I think he's saying that the fire chiefs were notified about the explosives in advance, and therefore exaggerated talk of WTC7 fires, damage etc to cover it up. If true, then Griffin's saying the fire chiefs are in on the coverup explicitly, and therefore the other firefighters are implicitly going along with it because they're not exposing the true story.
Click to expand...

This kind of involvement is implied all the time by the CFs, but they will not outright say it. Sure they will say the government did it, but when it comes to firefighters they will only imply. In my opinion, implying is the same as accusing, so CFs better start putting forth some damn proof of firefighter involvement.
 
Quad4_72 said:
This kind of involvement is implied all the time by the CFs, but they will not outright say it. Sure they will say the government did it, but when it comes to firefighters they will only imply. In my opinion, implying is the same as accusing, so CFs better start putting forth some damn proof of firefighter involvement.
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Since it is authority that is to be mistrusted they will often state that upper echelons of the NYFD were in the know but that the rank and file were not and the later were only unwittingly deseminating the disinformation about the building being unstable.

This is also why such authority figures such as Guliani are also included in the group that knew what was really occuring.

I once attempted to get a CT to list the people who he thought most certainly were in the know about what was occuring. He refused outright to put down such a list favoring instead to use a name when it was convenient to a particular topic. This then means that if I want such a list from that person I have to research all his posts in which he names someone or heavily implies that someone was in the know about the supposed plot. Of course I, and most others, simply are not interested in keeping track like that.

This thread illustrates how toxic such a topic is to the CT since to actually list the people involved would expose the extreme level of uneccessary complexity and convolutions in the CT train of thought.
 
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Yes, MikeW, I think that's their fairly standard story on WTC7: the chiefs were part of the conspiracy.

In addition, the way that Troothers just know that WTC7 was a controlled demolition, is because steel-framed buildings simply don't collapse due to fire, and the collapse itself was obviously not a CD (their claims, not mine). I think a significant point is that if these were true, the first people to know about the discrepancies would be the rank-and-file firefighters themselves. If there is no danger of building collapse from fire, every firefighter would know this ahead of time. So even if the lowly firefighters didn't know about the CD in advance, they still would have had to know as soon as the building fell; therefore for five years they have been complicit in the coverup - every one of them. There's no way around it.
 
MikeW said:
David Ray Griffin tells us:
Read the whole thing. He's not entirely clear about it, but I think he's saying that the fire chiefs were notified about the explosives in advance, and therefore exaggerated talk of WTC7 fires, damage etc to cover it up. If true, then Griffin's saying the fire chiefs are in on the coverup explicitly, and therefore the other firefighters are implicitly going along with it because they're not exposing the true story.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I guess someone forgot to tell

33-year FDNY veteran Chief of Department Peter Ganci,

42-year FDNY veteran First Deputy Commissioner Bill Feehan,

40-year FDNY veteran Chief of Special Operations Command Ray Downey (the most decorated man in the history of the FDNY),

Head Fire Marshal Ronald Bucca,

31-year FDNY veteran Assistant Chief Gerard Barbara,

39-year FDNY veteran Assistant Chief Donald Burns,

and 18 Battalion Chiefs,

all of whom died on 9/11, along with 23 Captains, 46 Lieutenants, two Paramedics, and 251 firefighters (some of whom were in retirement and volunteered).
 
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I've asked about 5 twoofers to explain the FDNY-WTC7 issue - twice on JREF.

All have failed.

If twoofers want to claim that "pull" means "blow up" or that knowing WTC7 would fall is proof of an inside job then they have no choice but to accuse the FDNY of at least a coverup.

The FDNY claims to have "pulled" back and that they knew WTC7 would collapse before it did due to structural damage. The leaves the twoofers with 2 painful options:

1) Accept the FDNY's claims and admit that WTC7 came down as a result of damage from the towers' collapse.

2) Accuse the FDNY of involement.

For example, what do twoofers think this guy is talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HLDgjYuRHk
 
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I emailed Rosie O'Donnell a few weeks ago when she came out with all the "pull it" nonsense. Maybe I tipped my hand by mentioning that I am a long time firefighter, but I specifically asked if by her claims she was saying the FDNY had something to do with the collapse of WTC7. Her reply (or whoever writes her blog for her) was almost instant: Nope, no way was FDNY involved, they are her heros, yada, yada.

I was sorely tempted to call her on wanting to have it both ways, but I have no desire to get into a pissing match with a skunk so let it drop. But it sure is interesting that for all the "pull it" claims, no one seems to want to specifically point the finger at FDNY....much less name names. Pretty cowardly, but then again, who wants to risk getting bopped on the head with a halligan tool?
 
CHF said:
I've asked about 5 twoofers to explain the FDNY-WTC7 issue - twice on JREF.

All have failed.

If twoofers want to claim that "pull" means "blow up" or that knowing WTC7 would fall is proof of an inside job then they have no choice but to accuse the FDNY of at least a coverup.

The FDNY claims to have "pulled" back and that they knew WTC7 would collapse before it did due to structural damage. The leaves the twoofers with 2 painful options:

1) Accept the FDNY's claims and admit that WTC7 came down as a result of damage from the towers' collapse.

2) Accuse the FDNY of involement.

For example, what do twoofers think this guy is talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HLDgjYuRHk
Click to expand...

That's an interesting video that I had not seen before ~ thanks, CHF! I get the impression that it is part of a longer video - any ideas on its origins?
 
Ofcourse the FDNY was in on it!!. They knew that WTC 7 was going to come down and they warned people at least an hour in advance to get away from the building. They also helped plant the explosives in the WTC towers because someone told Guiliani that the towers might collapse and that person was most likely a fireman.

FDNY= NWO/Freemason/Zionist patsies!!!!....:)
 
Lets see here.

The FDNY was involved. They told Silverstein to "pull it". They also alerted people that other structures were unstable and making them leave a fire scene. Fire Departments usually get people to leave fire scenes but here it means they are "conspiring a-holes"

The Port Authority of New York was involved including their police department. The PA police check the WTC for bombs on a daily basis. They would have to at least know if not be participants.

The private structural engineers who worked for the Port Authority would also have to be in on it. They would be able to tell id demolition was set up or not.

The private security of the WTC also would be in on it. Same reasons. The head of this group was ex FBI terrorism expert John O'Neil. O'Neil died 9/11 and was ex FBI.

The FBI was in on it. They were connected to O'Neil who worked in a near by building. The FBI investigates terrorism out of the NYC office. Since Al Qeida is made up, go figure.

The secret service knew. They were a tenant of #7.

President Bush knew. Secret Service and FBI report to him.

NYPD knew. They also got people away from #7 before collapse.

Guliani knew. He warned by a mysterious person while in #7. Also FDNY and NYPD report to him. The Port Authority works for him.

Fmr President Clinton knew. His office is in Harlem and he is guarded by the Secret Service. As an ex president, he is welcome to still receive National Security Briefings.
 
Don't forget the BBC. Those bastards.

And the Girl Scouts, who know more about how the cookie crumbles than does Judy Wood.
 
BBC, CNN, NBC were all in on it. They recieved scripts from the NWO telling them exactly what words to use as they watched the planes hit the WTC Towers and watched the Towers collapse. They were told exactly how many times to say "Oh My God" and were told exactly when and how to suggest terrorism might be involved. Plus they all claimed the WTC 7 was going to collapse or had collapsed, and that proves they were reading from a NWO order script.

Its 9-11 Truthers...against the world!!! I tell ya its tough to be a twoofer...=)
 
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