Thomas Jefferson's admiration and financial support of Christianity

[Ducky]

My main reason for bringing Lincoln and Coolidge into the forum is to show that they didn't understand the legal concept of "Separation of Church and State". It took mostly Hugo Black and ACLU lawyer Leo Pfeffer to make America aware of that non-constitutional phrase.

I see. So basically you're talking out of your ass and hoping anything you throw at us will distract from the fact that you've been (to use the language the kids do) omgwtfpwned!!!!!!1!1!!!11ROFLCOPTER!!!1!!one!

(Translation: you got your butt kicked.)

Ok Doc, I'm done with this thread and your idiocy. You've proven yourself to be a non-thinker, and intellectually dishonest. You've also shown that you don't care for any type of rational discourse, you have the english skills of a 7th grader, and whether you have the college education you claim to is seriously in question.

 

[DOC]

And this has what to do with Jefferson, again?



.... which has already been proven incorrect in this thread. Why do you think the phrase was used in 1910 as a book title?

Once again, you've been thoroughly spanked on a historical topic, so you try to shift to another historical topic that you obviously don't understand, and spew a lot of incorrect statements in the hope that they'll fit your preconceived political agenda.

The popular President Coolidge (post 437) or the voters who gave him a second term probably never read the 1910 book, and if they did they sure didn't believe in the title's words.

Only by a 5-4 decision in 1947 where the Justice who voiced the opinion of the court (Hugo Black) was a former KKK member and a decision that former Chief Justice Renquist said was based on "bad history" and "should be frankly and explicitly abandoned" (post 380) did the Seperation of Church and State phrase have any influence.

 

[fuelair]

yawn.

 

[wahrheit]

yawn.

Seconded.

DOC, your repeated posts containing the same @!$* and #!** over and over again are an insult to all the people reading this thread, especially the ones that have written replies pointing out your errors and lack of knowledge in history.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

My main reason for bringing Lincoln and Coolidge into the forum is to show that they didn't understand the legal concept of "Separation of Church and State". It took mostly Hugo Black and ACLU lawyer Leo Pfeffer to make America aware of that non-constitutional phrase.

Again, I must ask, where is your evidence that Leo Pfeffer was an ACLU lawyer? Apart from blogs/message boards I mean.

 

[Ducky]

Again, I must ask, where is your evidence that Leo Pfeffer was an ACLU lawyer? Apart from blogs/message boards I mean.

I don't know how comprehensive this list is, or even how accurate, but I cannot find Leo Pfeffer in any list of ACLU-involved court proceedings going back to the 20's.

 

[lolurigeller]

To the poster, If the forum is getting you this emotional. maybe, for your own health, you should not look at it. I will not look at your website and don't know what your talking about.

I assume trolling behavior is against Randi's rules so I would appreciate if the forum moderator would handle the situation. This person also made a trollish post in post #402.

Damn right i'm upset because if i'm right, it means that i'm the only person out of the entire playerbase of WW2Online who knows that you are screwing with the entire community of people that don't realize that you are completely insane.

Ahh ok, DOC. So exactly how does post #402 which has nothing remotely to do with this thread constitute trolling if I'm not even referring to this person who is you and left it as a message for somebody else who happens to be a dumb idiot producer of a niche MMORPG called WW2Online in the first place?


Why dumb and idiotic? Take a look at this.

When using the 232 for reconnaissance, remember to turn slightly to the right of your objective when you stop to view a subject. The thick forward antenna post can block the commander’s view at full binocular magnification. The suspension on the 232 is excellent, and firing at even top speed cross-country is effective. The antenna is ignored in collision detection, so don’t be afraid to drive under low-hanging branches.

The Sdkfz 232 modeled in this game for the axis side, is an uncommon command car variant of this reconnaissance car which has a nice big thick antenna on top that sticks out of low/high brush and serves no use in this game because every unit down to the lowly rifleman has access to radio communications.

So if the Antenna on the Sdkfz 232 has:

a.) No functional purpose in this game.

b.) Serve as a nice big fat target for the enemy to see, even though it wasn't like that in REAL LIFE, where most Sdkfz 232's weren't even command cars.

c.) In addition compromises the view of the commander at full binocular magnification creating blindspots, even though this car is suppose to be germany's only Reconnaisance car.

d.) Could be easily, easily, easily, removed from the 3d model without compromising it since it doesn't even have collision detection, and reinserted into an update patch.

e.) Has been lobbied by many people for over a long time to be changed, even though it's already been around for several years and no rational, coherent explanation was even made by any one of the rats on this issue.


The only conclusion I can derive from this is the person who made the decision to keep the Sdkfz. 232 this way is a complete RETARD that made a COMPLETELY RETARDED decision that is fully contemptuous of the playerbases intelligence.

Oh and as of March 23rd, the OKW as put in a request to shift bomber bases from Metz to Reims, which hasn't been done yet so the request is being submitted again. If you happen to be the DOC from WW2Online, do something about it quick you DUMBBUTT D!CKWEED.

 

[bignickel]

Whoa, whoa. What evidence do we have this is the same Doc?

I played WWIIOnline for years back in the day, and would rather not have my fond memories marred by whoever this guy is.

 

[DOC]

To Lolurigellar, I don't even read your trollish posts anymore and if other people want to waste their time reading them I guess they have the right. If I get the time, I might complain to a moderator, but your not even worth the time right now... Didn't Randi expose Uri Gellar as a fraud, lol!

Have a Good Life, this will be my last message to you.

 

[DOC]

Here's some info about attorney Leo Pfeffer, a big player in introducing America to the non-constitutional legal concept of Separation of Church and State.

Leo Pfeffer, 1910-1993, was a highly regarded constitutional lawyer who argued cases before the Supreme Court. He was on the staff of the American Jewish Congress from 1945 to 1964 and became the director of its Commission on Law and Social Action in 1957. After 1964, Mr. Pfeffer continued to do legal work for the congress as special counsel. Mr Pfeffer taught at the New School, Mount Holyoke College, Yeshiva University and Long Island University. At the request of the Anson Phelps Stokes estate, he updated and reedited Stokes Church and State in the United States. He later issued God, Caesar and the Constitution: The Court as Referee of Church-State Confrontation, published by Beacon Press as well as many other books and articles. In 1988, he was named Humanist of the Year by the American Humanist Association.

http://candst.tripod.com/caselist.htm

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

Here's some info about attorney Leo Pfeffer, a big player in introducing America to the non-constitutional legal concept of Separation of Church and State.

Leo Pfeffer, 1910-1993, was a highly regarded constitutional lawyer who argued cases before the Supreme Court. He was on the staff of the American Jewish Congress from 1945 to 1964 and became the director of its Commission on Law and Social Action in 1957. After 1964, Mr. Pfeffer continued to do legal work for the congress as special counsel. Mr Pfeffer taught at the New School, Mount Holyoke College, Yeshiva University and Long Island University. At the request of the Anson Phelps Stokes estate, he updated and reedited Stokes Church and State in the United States. He later issued God, Caesar and the Constitution: The Court as Referee of Church-State Confrontation, published by Beacon Press as well as many other books and articles. In 1988, he was named Humanist of the Year by the American Humanist Association.

http://candst.tripod.com/caselist.htm

Yet, It doesn't say jack about whether Pfeffer was a member of the much-maligned ACLU, or not does it prove that the principal of church/state seperation is "non-constitutional."

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Here's some info about attorney Leo Pfeffer...

DOC, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. We're not stupid. We're not 12 years old. And we're not brand new to this Interwebs thingie. We know how to Google and use Wikipedia. We know how to find on-line resources. So when we ask you for something specific, it's because we're unable to find validation for you assertions on-line at all, not because we want you to cut and paste something we've already read days or weeks ago. I'm sure if slaveholder and former President Thomas Jefferson were here, even he could figure this out.

So I ask again, do you have any evidence that Leo Pfeffer was an ACLU attorney as you have asserted repeatedly?

 

[DOC]

DOC, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. We're not stupid. We're not 12 years old. And we're not brand new to this Interwebs thingie. We know how to Google and use Wikipedia. We know how to find on-line resources. So when we ask you for something specific, it's because we're unable to find validation for you assertions on-line at all, not because we want you to cut and paste something we've already read days or weeks ago. I'm sure if slaveholder and former President Thomas Jefferson were here, even he could figure this out.

So I ask again, do you have any evidence that Leo Pfeffer was an ACLU attorney as you have asserted repeatedly?

Well here's one statement with a source that says the ACLU received advise from Leo Pfeffer. Article -- "ACLU not a Religion"

http://joscafe.com/2006/10/12/aclu-not-a-religion/

“In 1970, the year after the ACLU issued its first policy opposing the tax exempt status for churches; it accepted the advice of church and state extremist Leo Pfeffer and drafted a brief opposing tax exemptions in Waltz v. Tax Commission. In 1987, the ACLU Foundation and the New York Civil Liberties Union filed an amicus brief in support of Abortion Rights Mobilization to secure standing in a suit challenging the tax exempt status of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church was charged with violating its tax-exempt status by taking a stand against abortion.”Source

 

[wahrheit]

Let alone your questionable source, DOC:

Receiving advice from != (not equals) being an ACLU lawyer.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Well here's one statement with a source that says the ACLU received advise from Leo Pfeffer. Article -- "ACLU not a Religion"

Is your hubris to great to admit that your, and your "sources" repeated assertions that "ACLU Lawyer Leo Pfeffer" invented the phrase Separation of Church and State are unwarrented at best and a lie at the worst? Have you no decency? At long last sir, have you no decency?

If the best you can come up with a blog/opinion journal entry 33 years after Epperson desperatly trying to connect Pfeffer with the ACLU via an amicus curiae brief rather than some direct connection don't you think the honorable thing would be admit yet another of your sources was wrong/misguided/lying to you?

 

[DOC]

Leo Pfeffler -- resigned from ACLU committee in 1961

I was looking thru an article entitled "ACLU archives" and apparently the ACLU had or has a committee called "The church and state committee"

Following are some excerpts:

"During the 1970s, a major area of concern for the ACLU in church/state policy was the granting of public funds and federal tax credits to parochial and private schools. Other issues contained in the files include demilitarization of the chaplaincy (197 3-1974), religious "deprogramming" (1973-1977), and the Boy Scouts of America and their requirement in expression of belief in a Supreme Being (1976). The ACLU, along with other organizations, founded the National Coalition for Public Education and Religi ous Liberty (PEARL) in 1973 to organize their activities in opposition to government aid to non-public schools.
The papers of Dorothy Dunbar Bromley, ACLU assistant director and executive officer of the Church-State Committee from 1960 to 1962, are located in the Dorothy Dunbar Bromley subseries."

Also it states Leo Pfleffer {the big player in the 1947 Separation of Church and State case} resigned from this committee in 1961.

"The Church and State Public Issues heading includes materials on religious observances on public property, Sunday Blue Laws, tax exemption for sectarian schools, problems of conscience and religious freedom, and Leo Pfeffer's resignation from the Church and S tate [sic] Committee in October 1961."

http://infoshare1.princeton.edu/libraries/firestone/rbsc/finding_aids/aclu/

 

[DOC]

Aclu Destroying America??

Well on the very first post of this forum, I mentioned that I got some info off a audio tape of Dr. James Kennedy. There has been a lot of talk about the ACLU in the last several posts by me and others. I was reading the following Kennedy website and its amazing how many people really believe the ACLU is doing harm to this country. The website lists many unique titles of books about the ACLU such as:

"Indefensible: 10 ways the ACLU is destroying America"

http://www.coralridge.org/CRMMinResDetail.asp?ID=crm&pc=114421&ec=I
1301

 

[wahrheit]

I was looking thru an article entitled "ACLU archives" and apparently the ACLU had or has a committee called "The church and state committee"

Following are some excerpts:

"During the 1970s, a major area of concern for the ACLU in church/state policy was the granting of public funds and federal tax credits to parochial and private schools. Other issues contained in the files include demilitarization of the chaplaincy (197 3-1974), religious "deprogramming" (1973-1977), and the Boy Scouts of America and their requirement in expression of belief in a Supreme Being (1976). The ACLU, along with other organizations, founded the National Coalition for Public Education and Religi ous Liberty (PEARL) in 1973 to organize their activities in opposition to government aid to non-public schools.
The papers of Dorothy Dunbar Bromley, ACLU assistant director and executive officer of the Church-State Committee from 1960 to 1962, are located in the Dorothy Dunbar Bromley subseries."

Also it states Leo Pfleffer {the big player in the 1947 Separation of Church and State case} resigned from this committee in 1961.

"The Church and State Public Issues heading includes materials on religious observances on public property, Sunday Blue Laws, tax exemption for sectarian schools, problems of conscience and religious freedom, and Leo Pfeffer's resignation from the Church and S tate [sic] Committee in October 1961."

http://infoshare1.princeton.edu/libraries/firestone/rbsc/finding_aids/aclu/

What does any of this have to do with your claim regarding Pfeffer and him being "the ACLU lawyer" that was responsible for the phrase "Separation of Church and State"? Or are you trying to prove that you can use Google, copy and paste a few sentences, and then pretend it would back up your wild assertions?

And please don't write "Following are some excerpts:" and then add your own words and propaganda, i.e. your fantasies regarding Pfeffer being "the big player" in the Church and State case. That's more than dishonest.

Well on the very first post of this forum, I mentioned that I got some info off a audio tape of Dr. James Kennedy.

Yeah, and from the very first post you ignore that Kennedy is anything but a reliable source of information.

I was reading the following Kennedy website ...

*yawn* Is Kennedy's website where you get your information and education from? That might explain a lot.

... and its amazing how many people really believe the ACLU is doing harm to this country.

Where does it say how many people believe the ACLU is "doing harm to this country"? I must have missed the part where that study is cited.

Are you mixing up hard-core pseudo-Christian uber-propaganda with facts?

The website lists many unique titles of books about the ACLU such as:

"Indefensible: 10 ways the ACLU is destroying America"

This website lists many disgusting titles of books, they certainly are not "unique", they are all the same. Just reading the summaries makes me puke. I just wonder what I am doing here, since you have proven that you do not care about facts, that you ignore everything pointed out to you, but instead continue to spam this thread with false claims, fake questions, crap theories and pointless sources like Kennedy's website or some other stuff you found (ab-)using Google.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Is your hubris to great to admit that your, and your "sources" repeated assertions that "ACLU Lawyer Leo Pfeffer" invented the phrase Separation of Church and State are unwarrented at best and a lie at the worst? Have you no decency? At long last sir, have you no decency?

If the best you can come up with a blog/opinion journal entry 33 years after Epperson desperatly trying to connect Pfeffer with the ACLU via an amicus curiae brief rather than some direct connection don't you think the honorable thing would be admit yet another of your sources was wrong/misguided/lying to you?

Bolded for emphasis.

Will there be any evidence, or just more claptrap and slander?

 

[DOC]

LEO and the ACLU once again

Well the following doesn't really say Leo Pfeffer was an ACLU attorney( it just says he worked for the ACLU's side in the case), but I thought some people might be interested in who the big players were in case that helped kick prayer out of the public schools.

http://www.acluprocon.org/SupCtCases/113Engel.html,

ACLU ProCon ACLU ProCon.org Case No. 113

Engel et al. v. Vitale et al. (Decided 06/25/62)


V. AMICI CURIAE ACLU Side
(Counsel of record/Appellant)
and Counsel

• American Ethical Union
• American Jewish Committee
• Synagogue Council

(Briefs of amici curiae urging reversal, were filed by Herbert A. Wolff, Leo Rosen and Nancy Wechsler for the American Ethical Union; Louis Caplan, Edwin J. Lukas, Paul Hartman, Theodore Leskes and Sol Rabkin for the American Jewish Committee et al.; and Leo Pfeffer, Lewis H. Weinstein, Albert Wald, Shad Polier and Samuel Lawrence Brennglass for the Synagogue Council of America et al.

William J. Butler argued the cause for petitioners. With him on the briefs was Stanley Geller.)


Opposing Side
(Respondent/Appellee)
and Counsel

• 
  [*] States of Nevada, Arizona, Arkansas, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, south Carolina, south Dakota, Texas, West Virginia.
  [*] Board of Regents of the University of the State of New York.

(A brief of amici curiae, urging affirmance, was filed by Roger D. Foley, Attorney General of Nevada, Robert Pickrell, Attorney General of Arizona, Frank Holt, Attorney General of Arkansas, Albert L. Coles, Attorney General of Connecticut, Richard W. Ervin, Attorney General of Florida, Eugene Cook, Attorney General of Georgia, Frank Benson, Attorney General of Idaho, Edwin K. Steers, Attorney General of Indiana, William M. Ferguson, Attorney General of Kansas, Jack P. F. Gremillion, Attorney General of Louisiana, Thomas B. Finan, Attorney General of Maryland, Joe T. Patterson, Attorney General of Mississippi, William Maynard, Attorney General of New Hampshire, Arthur J. Sills, Attorney General of New Jersey, Earl E. Hartley, Attorney General of New Mexico, Leslie R. Burgum, Attorney General of North Dakota, David Stahl, Attorney General of Pennsylvania, J. Joseph Nugent, Attorney General of Rhode Island, Daniel R. McLeod, Attorney General of South Carolina, A. C. Miller, Attorney General of South Dakota, Will Wilson, Attorney General of Texas, and C. Donald Robertson, Attorney General of West Virginia.
Charles A. Brind filed a brief for the Board of Regents of the University of the State of New York, as amicus curiae, in opposition to the petition for certiorari.
Bertram B. Daiker argued the cause for respondents. With him on the briefs was Wilford E. Neier. Porter R. Chandler argued the cause for intervenors-respondents. With him on the briefs were Thomas J. Ford and Richard