brain/mind

[Hokulele]

It did not originate at any time. It has always been. Time and space are exclusively phenomenal realizations. Mind is universally instantaneous and ubiquitous.

At what point can a brain perceive mind? For example, fetus, newborn, first words, first grammar, puberty are all stages of human development. Is the ability for brain to perceive mind dependent on any of these stages?

 

[articulett]

F
Thanks! I keep thinking of changing my avatar from Turing, but then I think of him biting into that final red apple and have to keep him.

The last year sucked. The last three months were hell. My partner died of a heart attack at 29 while on vacation by himself in Mexico.

I walked out of a job that I hated last August. I just finished a short-term contract and am unemployed while looking for a job that I'd actually enjoy. Research juices are flowing again, in a torrent, actually. I get so much more work done when I'm not gainfully employed. I'm having too much fun thinking. The last few days, I've been getting up more than once in the middle of the night to search for info on the internet or to write down some ideas.

I'll be ok, just a lot older and a bit wiser. Glad to be back.

Ahh--I didn't know that was Turing. I am so sorry about the loss of your partner! How long were you together? What a shock. I lost my husband to colon cancer when we were both 28. But that was a long time ago. And I had time to prepare. It's probably the wrong thread, but if you want to share the details and how you found out, I'd love to hear. Were there any legal snafus or problems because of your relationship? Were you allowed to choose how the remains were handled? Did they tell you first?

And I love just being able to think too. I'm indulging myself since I'm a teacher and it's spring break. This forum is a favorite indulgence. Skeptic.com has been invaded by the woo and the insane (maatorc...their calling you--). II pops in and posts while intoxicated. I'm too surly to have woo imposed on me during my free time. I'm trying to fortify myself for Easter Dinner with my family-- I can only hold my tongue for so long.

Anyhow, I'm glad you are back-- and sharing with your intelligence with us (rather than some job thingy), even in your grief. I hope your next gainful employment allows you some thinking room, as, clearly, you do it well--and it would be an asset.

 

[maatorc]

So the psychic projector cannot convey any information to the projectee? Not even a single keyword that we could use to test whether the event had actually occurred? ...~~ Paul

Whether the 'keyword' is given to the receiver or an observer, the receiver could not materially prove to a third party what was received.

 

[Complexity]

Ahh--I didn't know that was Turing. I am so sorry about the loss of your partner! How long were you together? What a shock. I lost my husband to colon cancer when we were both 28. But that was a long time ago. And I had time to prepare. It's probably the wrong thread, but if you want to share the details and how you found out, I'd love to hear. Were there any legal snafus or problems because of your relationship? Were you allowed to choose how the remains were handled? Did they tell you first?

Isaiah and I were together for ten years. I took him in when he was shunned by his family, friends, and church (Jehovah's Witnesses) when they discovered he was gay. A friendship turned into more, and we were together for ten stormy and lovely years. He had gone to Puebla, Mexico to stay with the family of a coworker for two weeks for Christmas. He had a wonderful time. My last conversation with him was about 36 hours before he died. He was supposed to fly home on December 30. I got a call early on December 29 from his manager - she'd heard from his coworker that he had died that morning.

The next few days were horrible. I contacted his family and friends, arranged to get him back from Mexico, organized the funeral, and led the memorial service. His family (father had died of a heart attack, was the most religious, all but his twin were no longer Jehovah's Witnesses) were very supportive. Two of my friends let me the money for funeral expenses. We cremated him. Haven't decided what to do with his ashes, so the box containing his ashes are acting as a superb bookend. Isaiah loved books and read more than anyone I've ever met.

And I love just being able to think too. I'm indulging myself since I'm a teacher and it's spring break. This forum is a favorite indulgence. Skeptic.com has been invaded by the woo and the insane (maatorc...their calling you--). II pops in and posts while intoxicated. I'm too surly to have woo imposed on me during my free time. I'm trying to fortify myself for Easter Dinner with my family-- I can only hold my tongue for so long.

Anyhow, I'm glad you are back-- and sharing with your intelligence with us (rather than some job thingy), even in your grief. I hope your next gainful employment allows you some thinking room, as, clearly, you do it well--and it would be an asset.

Thanks. I always make time for some thinking room.

Enjoy your time off. I no longer do religous holidays with family.

Thanks

 

[Causality]

Mind is universally instantaneous and ubiquitous.

Cool!! I gotta get me one of these Mind things! It slices, it dices! It's instantaneous and ubiquitous, it's universal, impermanent and has no beginning or end. The quality goes in before the name goes on!

Tom Waits Step Right Up Lyrics


Step right up
step right up
step right up
Everyone's a winner, bargains galore
That's right, you too can be the proud owner
Of the quality goes in before the name goes on
One-tenth of a dollar
one-tenth of a dollar
we got service after sales

You need perfume? we got perfume
how 'bout an engagement ring?
Something for the little lady
something for the little lady
Something for the little lady, hmm
Three for a dollar

We got a year-end clearance, we got a white sale
And a smoke-damaged furniture
you can drive it away today
Act now, act now
and receive as our gift, our gift to you
They come in all colors, one size fits all
No muss, no fuss, no spills
you're tired of kitchen drudgery

Everything must go
going out of business
going out of business
Going out of business sale
Fifty percent off original retail price
skip the middle man
Don't settle for less
How do we do it?
how do we do it?
volume, volume, turn up the volume
Now you've heard it advertised, don't hesitate
Don't be caught with your drawers down
Don't be caught with your drawers down
You can step right up, step right up

That's right, it filets, it chops
It dices, slices, never stops
lasts a lifetime, mows your lawn
And it mows your lawn
and it picks up the kids from school
It gets rid of unwanted facial hair
it gets rid of embarrassing age spots
It delivers a pizza
and it lengthens, and it strengthens
And it finds that slipper that's been at large
under the chaise longe for several weeks
And it plays a mean Rhythm Master
It makes excuses for unwanted lipstick on your collar
And it's only a dollar, step right up
it's only a dollar, step right up

'Cause it forges your signature.
If not completely satisfied
mail back unused portion of product
For complete refund of price of purchase
Step right up
Please allow thirty days for delivery
don't be fooled by cheap imitations
You can live in it, live in it
laugh in it, love in it
Swim in it, sleep in it
Live in it, swim in it
laugh in it, love in it
Removes embarrassing stains from contour sheets
that's right
And it entertains visiting relatives
it turns a sandwich into a banquet
Tired of being the life of the party?
Change your shorts
change your life
change your life
Change into a nine-year-old Hindu boy
get rid of your wife
And it walks your dog, and it doubles on sax
Doubles on sax, you can jump back Jack
see you later alligator
See you later alligator

And it steals your car
It gets rid of your gambling debts, it quits smoking
It's a friend, and it's a companion
And it's the only product you will ever need
Follow these easy assembly instructions
it never needs ironing
Well it takes weights off hips, bust
thighs, chin, midriff
Gives you dandruff, and it finds you a job
it is a job
And it strips the phone company free
take ten for five exchange
And it gives you denture breath
And you know it's a friend, and it's a companion
And it gets rid of your traveler's checks
It's new, it's improved, it's old-fashioned

Well it takes care of business
never needs winding
Never needs winding
never needs winding
Gets rid of blackheads, the heartbreak of psoriasis
Christ, you don't know the meaning of heartbreak, buddy
C'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon
'Cause it's effective, it's defective
it creates household odors
It disinfects, it sanitizes for your protection
It gives you an erection
it wins the election
Why put up with painful corns any longer?
It's a redeemable coupon, no obligation
no salesman will visit your home
We got a jackpot, jackpot, jackpot
prizes, prizes, prizes, all work guaranteed

How do we do it
how do we do it
how do we do it
how do we do it
We need your business
we're going out of business
We'll give you the business
Get on the business
end of our going-out-of-business sale
Receive our free brochure, free brochure
Read the easy-to-follow assembly instructions
batteries not included
Send before midnight tomorrow, terms available
Step right up
step right up
step right up
You got it buddy: the large print giveth
and the small print taketh away

Step right up
you can step right up
you can step right up
C'mon step right up
(Get away from me kid, you bother me...)
Step right up, step right up, step right up
c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon
Step right up
you can step right up
c'mon and step right up
C'mon and step right up

 

[Slimething]

Cool!! I gotta get me one of these Mind things! It slices, it dices! It's instantaneous and ubiquitous, it's universal, impermanent and has no beginning or end. The quality goes in before the name goes on!

I wonder if it comes with a set of Ginzu knives if I ACT NOW!!!

(Great post. Thanks! )

 

[Slimething]

Isaiah and I were together for ten years. I took him in when he was shunned by his family, friends, and church (Jehovah's Witnesses) when they discovered he was gay. A friendship turned into more, and we were together for ten stormy and lovely years. He had gone to Puebla, Mexico to stay with the family of a coworker for two weeks for Christmas. He had a wonderful time. My last conversation with him was about 36 hours before he died. He was supposed to fly home on December 30. I got a call early on December 29 from his manager - she'd heard from his coworker that he had died that morning.

The next few days were horrible. I contacted his family and friends, arranged to get him back from Mexico, organized the funeral, and led the memorial service. His family (father had died of a heart attack, was the most religious, all but his twin were no longer Jehovah's Witnesses) were very supportive. Two of my friends let me the money for funeral expenses. We cremated him. Haven't decided what to do with his ashes, so the box containing his ashes are acting as a superb bookend. Isaiah loved books and read more than anyone I've ever met.

Very sorry for what you went through, Complexity. I really think it sucks that there's no law of Conservation of Contentment or even Misery. There's never enough of the former and an endless over-supply of the latter.

I have a feeling that Isaiah would have been very happy as a bookend. Be well and welcome back. I can see why you were missed.

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Whether the 'keyword' is given to the receiver or an observer, the receiver could not materially prove to a third party what was received.

Huh? A random keyword is selected and given to the projector, who then projects it to the receiver. The receiver states which word he received. There is no physical contact between the projector and receiver. Simple.

~~ Paul

 

[aggle-rithm]

Cool!! I gotta get me one of these Mind things! It slices, it dices! It's instantaneous and ubiquitous, it's universal, impermanent and has no beginning or end. The quality goes in before the name goes on!

Then why are they trying to get me to buy a warranty?

 

[Dancing David]

Then why are they trying to get me to buy a warranty?

And a three year service contract.

 

[maatorc]

Huh? A random keyword is selected and given to the projector, who then projects it to the receiver. The receiver states which word he received. There is no physical contact between the projector and receiver. Simple. ~~ Paul

This would very powerfully infer the truth of mental transmission and reception, but absolute verification lies exclusively in the mental experiences of those participating directly in the process.
As you already know, such a demonstration would not in any event be generally accepted as proof although many individuals would personally be inclined to see it as very convincing.

 

[cyborg]

I'd be pretty convinced by such an experiment if it were 100% successful and well formulated.

I mean, if these things are real then demonstrating their practical ability as being crappily useless... well it doesn't really say much for it.

 

[maatorc]

... I mean, if these things are real then demonstrating their practical ability as being crappily useless... well it doesn't really say much for it.

It demonstrates the reality of the principle of mental transmission and reception.
It demonstrates that mind is not a physical extension of the brain.
It demonstrates to practioners the validity of the basis of their work.
It demonstrates the principle of the incommensurability of phenomena and noumena which invalidates the JREF MDC beyond demonstrating that what can be shown under the Rules is merely currently scientifically inexplicable, and has no proveable connection with any "psychic, supernatural, or occult power".

 

[Slimething]

It demonstrates the reality of the principle of mental transmission and reception.
It demonstrates that mind is not a physical extension of the brain.
It demonstrates to practioners the validity of the basis of their work.
It demonstrates the principle of the incommensurability of phenomena and noumena which invalidates the JREF MDC beyond demonstrating that what can be shown under the Rules is merely currently scientifically inexplicable, and has no proveable connection with any "psychic, supernatural, or occult power".

You write as if such an experiment had already been run and the results had gone your way. Your response indicates to me that a testing protocol could be designed to meet the technical challenges and allow you to collect the JREF prize.

The only thing standing in your way now is that you would have to make a name for yourself. As that entails getting others to take you seriously, you seem to be out of the running already. Such a shame!

 

[maatorc]

Your response indicates to me that a testing protocol could be designed to meet the technical challenges ...

As explained in posts 351 and 353, the MDC cannot devise any protocols to prove or disprove that what is demonstrated is other than merely currently scientifically inexplicable.
As to the rest of your comments: Gorw up you llttie siht.

 

[Slimething]

As explained in posts 351 and 353, the MDC cannot devise any protocols to prove or disprove that what is demonstrated is other than merely currently scientifically inexplicable.
As to the rest of your comments: Gorw up you llttie siht.

Actually, post 351 indicates that the phenomenon can be measured. You only state correctly that only the sender and receiver know for sure but, unless the receiver was a lying POS like you, the results would indicate whether or not such transmissions were possible.

I agree with you, though, that the JREF MDC is small potatoes. If this phenomenon actually did exist, do you have any idea of how much money you could make? How much do you think the CIA, INTERPOL, etc would pay you to take reports from their spies while they napped? And that's only the beginning! Stop posting here and go get rich! Really!

 

[cyborg]

It demonstrates ...

No, the point is that it doesn't. Even if it really, really was the effect if that effect is indistinguishable from another effect that requires less entities to explain it then science must side with that explanation. That is what Occam's razor is all about.

If there's wronger than wrong then this is an example of righter than right.

 

[maatorc]

1... Actually, post 351 indicates that the phenomenon can be measured.
2... I agree with you, though, that the JREF MDC is small potatoes. ... the CIA, ...etc

1... Wrong, post 351 specifically states it cannot be measured.
2... Amusingly enough, the CIA knew the answer to all this stuff many years ago from people who could prove it which probably explains why they have no interest in the modern skeptics movement.

 

[Hokulele]

Is it only people's brains that can experience mind? Can animals?

 

[maatorc]

No, the point is that it doesn't. Even if it really, really was the effect if that effect is indistinguishable from another effect that requires less entities to explain it then science must side with that explanation. That is what Occam's razor is all about. If there's wronger than wrong then this is an example of righter than right.

Are you saying that Paul's example in post 351 would be scientific proof and and not mere inference and what the participating parties actually experienced is irrelevant?