Former truther here.....please don't eat me

jdhammer said:
Thanks for your insight. I realize that not everyone on these boards is going to be dedicated to reasonable debate. Just like the way it is at LC. There are prejudiced folk here, and prejudiced folk there. The reason I am here is because there is clearly a place for reasonable debate. When I tried to spark reasonable debate at LC, I was lynched. At the LC boards, people THINK they're having reasonable debate, but what they are actually doing is debating amongst themselves....a dangerous method. How can you have a reasonable debate when you automatically reject people who state they disagree with the conspiracy theory?

And I do, in fact, still look at WTC 7 and scratch my head. The difference is that I don't automatically assume it means 9/11 was planned by the US government. Even if Larry Silverstein did have some sort of hand in bringing the building down, wouldn't that chalk up more to one man's greed than an entire administration's evil? Also, if the people at LC would give the "pull it" thing a rest I'd have a little more respect for them. Give me a break. IF there was a conspiracy, and IF that was any sort of a confession, it would never have been allowed to air. Ever.

I find your comment on acceptance extremely insulting, by the way. If you have to resort to that kind of thing, then I'm glad you're stuck in the intellectual nightmare you're in right now.

And an interesting side note......if you'd like to see a carbon copy of the ignorance on the Loose Change boards, look for a message board on the Flat Earth theory. I went there once, and I couldn't believe the parallels. Absolutely hilarious. You guys should team up.
Click to expand...

Welcome jdhammer!

The above post very nicely explains to me why you stopped being a truther: You think rationally.

The post you responded to is characteristic of one of the absurdities of the troother movement: The projections. They accuse us of groupthing, and yet are deply rooted in it themselves.

They just have to think that we are skeptics in order to be part of a group, or to avoid facing certain facts, yet they are very much seeking the security in a group and are desperately closing their eyes to the facts presented to them.

My advice to you is: Never be afraid to consider a government (or some other) conspiracy, because they are possible and thinkable, but make your decision based on facts and logic.

Hans
 
oahuoahu said:
im talking about monosodium glutamate, fluoride, mercury, genetically modified crops (some with human genes in it), and cloned meat being safe for humans. are they?
Click to expand...

all food crops have already been genetically modified through generations of selected breeding. new technology allows us to acheive the same goals with greater accuracy and precision.

drinking water in the united states is extraordinarily safe. we have very strict standards in place.

if you are actually interested in all of this, START RESEARCHING IT, rather than just assuming the worst of it. visit your local university, and talk with some professors. visit your local library, and do some reading. even a quick reading through wiki will help you.
 
Hi jdhammer and welcome :)

There are a number of ex-truthers here, myself included.

If there was any "egg" involved in your story then you've just got rid of it.

cheers !
 
Welcome to the forum, jdhammer. Far from having egg on your face, I would say that, having changed a strongly held belief in the light of the evidence, you're an example to all of what a true skeptic should be.

Dave
 
oahuoahu said:
is mercury nutritious, safe, deadly, or does it do nothing bad?
Click to expand...

How much mercury, over what period of timer, in what form is the mercury, who is being exposed to it and how are they exposed to it?

Before you answer these questions your question is meaningless
 
oahuoahu said:
hmmm. interesting

are you saying there are certain questions that I can ask (or that can be asked to me) that would take the twoofer out of me?

awesome! plz PM me those questions or post them i need to know. while I am in twoofer mode I am sad and afraid (because I think the government and certain big corporations are evil, and i think fluoride and monosodium glutamate and Mercury are deadly poisons yet they still put it in water and food and vaccines).

I would love it if you could tell me how to take the twoofer out of me, so i could go back to loving the government and certain big corporations and being happy and calm while they put those "nutritious elements" in my water and food and put genetically modified "completely safe" crops and cloned meats in my grocery store.
That would certainly allow me to sleep better at night I must admit. If you can help me, ! sweet.
Click to expand...

That's a reasonable question. It's also useful that it's different from the usual CT's, and can receive a fresh analysis.

Someone with genuine concerns about the presence of Mercury, Fluoride and Monosodium Glutamate in foods, water and vaccines would read all the scientific papers on the matters, and evaluate the evidence. He wouldn't assume that the additives were necessarily safe or dangerous. He wouldn't regard government approval as indicating that the additives were necessary or safe. He wouldn't assume that because something is toxic in one concentration, it would be toxic in another.

A CT mindset would start with the assumption that the additives were toxic, that the government was lying, and that studies that indicated otherwise were fraudulent and corrupt. Only evidence that supported this viewpoint would be considered, and anyone who disagreed with it would be vilified. In particular, anyone providing evidence that didn't follow the correct line would be abused rather than thanked.
 
Dave Rogers said:
Welcome to the forum, jdhammer. Far from having egg on your face, I would say that, having changed a strongly held belief in the light of the evidence, you're an example to all of what a true skeptic should be.

Dave
Click to expand...

Which includes the possibility that at some stage, more evidence will change one's beliefs. If a succession of qualified engineers come forward to insist that the WTC must have been demolished, then a skeptic must be open to it. In the meantime, he's free to believe that that won't happen. It's interesting that Avery insists that his beliefs are constant, regardless of evidence. That's the opposite of a skeptical position.
 
oahuoahu said:
hmmm. interesting

are you saying there are certain questions that I can ask (or that can be asked to me) that would take the twoofer out of me?

awesome! plz PM me those questions or post them i need to know. while I am in twoofer mode I am sad and afraid (because I think the government and certain big corporations are evil, and i think fluoride and monosodium glutamate and Mercury are deadly poisons yet they still put it in water and food and vaccines).

I would love it if you could tell me how to take the twoofer out of me, so i could go back to loving the government and certain big corporations and being happy and calm while they put those "nutritious elements" in my water and food and put genetically modified "completely safe" crops and cloned meats in my grocery store.
That would certainly allow me to sleep better at night I must admit. If you can help me, ! sweet.
Click to expand...

Here is the question that, if you seriously think about it, should take the twoofer out of you:

If the issues I really care about are additives and chemicals in food and water and genetically modified foods, then why am I not working on those issues instead of 9/11 consipracy theories?

Then, if you still find yourself sad and afraid, you might ask yourself these questions:

- What diseases (disorders, etc.) do you believe are being caused by the substances and practices you're concerned about?

- How prevalent are those diseases? How many fatalities do they cause?

- Based on the above answers, and the size of the population, what is the average person's chance of suffering those consequences? What about your own chance?

- How does that compare with the average person's chance, worldwide, of dying from starvation or from infectious disease that is definitely not caused by the substances you're afraid of, such as malaria, tuberculosis, cholera, diphtheria, etc.?

- How does that compare with the average American's chance of dying from accident, from violent crime, or from secondary effects of poor dietary choices and obesity (heart disease, diabetes, etc.)?

- Are you really afraid of mercury, MSG, GM foods, etc. or do you just prefer to think about them so you can avoid thinking about things you're really more afraid of, things far more likely to harm or kill you, which are also things you have much more control over, such as how much you eat and how fast you drive?

Oh by the way... welcome, jdhammer! Glad you're here. As you can see we have our work cut out for us. 9/11 trooth is just the (admittedly colorful and noisy) tip of an enormously larger iceberg. Don't give this subforum a second thought if you prefer to move on to other areas!

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
oahuoahu said:
I would love it if you could tell me how to take the twoofer out of me, so i could go back to loving the government and certain big corporations and being happy and calm while they put those "nutritious elements" in my water and food and put genetically modified "completely safe" crops and cloned meats in my grocery store.
Click to expand...
oahuaoahu, just go outside and take a deep breath. You've apparently not been getting the proper dose of chemtrails lately.
 
oahuoahu said:
awesome! plz PM me those questions or post them i need to know. while I am in twoofer mode I am sad and afraid (because I think the government and certain big corporations are evil....
Click to expand...

(you might just be having a laugh here, but I'll bite anyway)

Strangely enough, it was my total detestation of Bush and Blair - and the whole pack of shameless lies and manipluation that took us into Iraq - that was one of the major triggers for my descent into twooferism.

However, finally coming across properly ( and, er, vigourously) presented evidence cured the twooferism. Eventually realising that Googling some 9/11 keywords flings about 200 pages of CT cross-quoting to the top of your search was another eye-opener.

Yet I still detest Bush and Blair.

To suggest that 9/11 sceptics are automatically lovers of Government and big business is just, well, just cr#p really.
 
Last edited:
Welcome to the conspiracy sub-forum, jdhammer. Good to see someone else led out of the lies of the "Truth Movement."

Remember, once a troofer calls you "jdumber" or tells you you're a COINTELPRO disinfo agent, you've "made it" here. ;)
 
jdhammer said:
My name's Jeff. I used to post in the Loose Change forums (as jdhammer as well) back when they were at a different site (different host?). And yes, I <sigh> was a truther at one point. My story is all too familiar to you guys I'm sure. I saw Loose Change, recognized a lot of it as BS but somehow clung onto the idea that they might be onto something. I think a big part of it was the fact that I thought some of the people on the Loose Change boards knew what they were talking about. Don't ask me why, but I did. So I guess there was some imagined credibility that I applied to the folk there, and I spiralled down into a strange and dark pit that I don't care to revisit.

When I started to wake up (in the intelligent sense, not the truther sense), I started to ask questions on the LC boards. I started to point things out, and basically shine the spotlight on things that truthers don't want a light shone on. It wasn't long before I was attacked from all sides simply for trying to be reasonable about the arguments being made on the boards. One moment in particular I remember (probably close to a year ago now) was when someone else was doing something similar (being reasonable, polite, and challenging the truther theories) - I believe it was actually someone from these boards and I ended up having a little PM exchange with him after we both got ripped apart. That was a defining moment in my turnaround from potential conspiracy nut to reaffirmed critical thinker. If you are in fact on these boards and come across this post, send me a message - It was an honor to be hung next to you on the LC boards.

I know you've all heard this story before, but I thought I'd say hello and provide you all with my background on my first post. After hearing "JREF" thrown around like a term used to describe murderous baby rapists, I poked around the site and I can honestly say I think I've found my new home. While it looks like these boards have their fair share of characters (like any), it looks like there is reasonable debate going on for the most part. My brain is excited.
Click to expand...
But...but...but...I've heard so many Truthers claim that waking up to 9/11 Truth is a one-way ticket! :con2:

Welcome, jdhammer! :w2: I think I remember you from the original LC forum.
 
jdhammer,

I see what you are doing. Taking my name and twisting it to make me look like a "truther". It is kind of funny that two people with similar names would both be recovering conspiracy people. I used to read the conspiracy books and the such. I used to read about JFK, 911, moon landing, all the trash that is out there. I know how hard it is to totally switch your belief structure. For me both conspiracy and religous. Go from thinking that there are black copters, death camps run by the U.S. in many states, secret groups that run the world, etc. to the complete opposite. I dont think there is anything wrong with reading all that stuff because it only made me a better thinker. It made me research things instead of taking things as they are said. I see how words and actions can be twisted around.
It is very hard to admit you are wrong. I know.
After I came to realize that I was wrong in my thinking I became much more open to ideas. I feel much more open mentally.
I think you are on the right path and your life will contain much less stress not worrying about the MIB and government murderers.

Welcome
 
jdhammer said:
:I mean, there was a point where I knew I was wrong, but it took a while for me to accept that I was and to commit myself to the right side.

I think one of the posters on this thread put it best - Sometimes the only reason you believe is because you WANT to believe.
Click to expand...

I can relate to both of these points wholeheartedly. I was a huge believer in JFK conspiracy mythology for a long time. Eventually, though, it just sort of occurred to me that the vast majority of the reasons I believed in a conspiracy were not very good reasons. Pretty much all my doubts finally gave way to logical, fact-supported prosaic explanations, despite my valiant attempts at resistance. :blush:

As for Wanting To Believe, that was me with regard to the meme that depicts the Area 51 facility as a R&D ground for testing captured and/or crashed extraterrestrial spacecraft. I wanted to believe that the Roswell crash of 1947 really was a crashed alien craft, and I wanted to believe Bob Lazar's story. Even when I was Really Into It, I could never make myself believe it, because I never found any really compelling reasons (other than the fact I thought and still think it's a cool idea).
 
Welcome, jdhammer.

I somehow suspect that the Truthoids really, really don't like you. Needless to say, I'm jealous; I wish I could stick in their little craws the way you do.
 
Minadin said:
It's true, that when you're genuinely wrong, or even possibly wrong, about something, the other posters here will call you out on it. I have myself had to admit to being mistaken from time to time. But the good news is that you've already made the first step, in admitting you had been wrong previously, and that bodes well for you in the future. My own mantra here is that I would rather be corrected than to continue to be wrong, about anything.

Of course, if you're confronted with the possibility of being wrong, and don't believe that you are, be prepared to back up your position with some verifiable data, and if you do, even the people who disagree with you will respect you.
Click to expand...

That is not true. Once they are confronted with such data they will ignore you or become ridiculous in their arguments.

Example; here are two photos showing WTC 7 on fire (floors 11 and 12) before the collapse of the Twin Towers. Their response was this was a solar reflection. This could not be the case since WTC 7 was in a dark shadow. You see the top of the building shadow at the upper floors.

http://www.amanzafar.com/WTC/wtc23.JPG
http://www.amanzafar.com/WTC/wtc38.JPG
JREF also has cult like elements in it.
 
MaGZ said:
That is not true. Once they are confronted with such data they will ignore you or become ridiculous in their arguments.
Click to expand...


You mean, like ignoring video evidence showing an unburned parking lot long after the second plane strike? Yes, unfortunately, some few posters here do tend to ignore evidence and become ridiculous in their arguments.

Too bad they tend to be you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom