Test for telekinesis to win prize

[becomingagodo]

I was just wondering what you need to do to win the prize money if you have telekinesis. The Psi wheel isn't telekinesis so that won't be used. Watching the James Hydrick video on youtube if the person was able to move the pages without blowing would he have got the prize money. Does micro PK count as telekinesis.
How would you go about proving you have telekinesis?

Sorry if this has been discussed before. I have looked it up in search and found little information of relevence.

 

[Oualawouzou]

Er, under carefully supervision, get something to move while no other explanation could account for the movement. That's about it.

The way the challenge works, you have to state what you can and under what conditions. Then the JREF representative jumps in and says weither the protocol you suggest is ok or if there are problems that must be addressed.

Note that 99.9% of people who post here are not representatives to JREF. For definite answers, you'll have to contact the foundation directly.

Note also that the challenge will change its format on April 1st. Hurry up if you intend to take it under its current form!

 

[petre]

Really all that is required is that the applicant describe something (anything at all really) that isn't possible by known means in a letter attached to a notarized application.

Moving pages is a fine example, but I suppose it could extend all the way down to causing specific movement in microscopic particles, and all the way up to creating unexplained motion in galactic bodies. The applicant is free to describe any paranormal ability.

The JREF will then respond with any reservations or additional controls they feel are necessary such that a demonstration is indeed evidence of the paranormal. For example, they may require steps that prevent the use of magnetism or other known scientific principals that could cause what is described by the applicant. Often a protocol may contain many complicated parts, and a simpler protocol will be suggested to reduce the effort needed to test the ability.

Once the applicant and JREF agree on the testing protocol, both sign it and schedule the preliminary test. If the applicant shows up and performs according to the agreed-upon protocol, then he or she has passed the preliminary test and is allowed to take the final test.

How the final test actually happens is a bit of speculation based on the written rules, since no applicant has ever passed the preliminary test, but according to the rules the final test must follow the same protocol as the preliminary (though I imagine there may be more scrutiny, media exposure, etc, so long as it doesn't violate any conditions in the protocol).

That's the process in a very simple summary. It seems you have a specific TK ability in mind, so if you'd like to share some details about how you think it works, there are some helpful people here that might suggest how you might devise a test that would distinguish the mundane (random motion at the micro level, unexpected but known forces, etc) from the paranormal (if such is your wish).

There are also a number of people likely to chide you, pressure you, and insult you. You can respond to them or ignore them as you like

 

[GzuzKryzt]

If you claim telekinetic ability, you should simply tell us what you can do.

 

[ben m]

For any sort of ability you might have, the test will probably have the following elements. The details will be worked out between you and JREF, but many tests have common measures to rule out fraud or self-delusion.

First of all, only you know what abilities you think you have. You'll get to specify the item ("I can only move potato chips"), and you'll get to tell the testers how you expect it to move ("an inch to the right", "spin clockwise", "the pendulum will swing harder" etc.)

1) You will be presented with one or more of the item in question. A tester will tell you which one (or none) to apply your abilities to. (For example: three compasses are laid out on a table. The tester will say "apply your abilities to the one on the left." If all three move, that's a "miss". If only the left one moves, that's a "hit". If the tester says, "OK, just do nothing", and the compasses move, that's also a miss.) If your abilities don't focus well enought to pick one of multiple items, it's OK, but please reveal this to JREF in the application.

2) You will not be the judge of whether the item moved or not. A third party will be the judge---perhaps they'll be positioned behind a partition, or something, so that they can see the items themselves, but not see you. You don't get to say, "Look, it's moving! No, look closer!" If the judge can't see it for him or herself, it's not paranormal, it's observer bias. If the effect requires some sort of trained eye, it's possible that you will be allowed to provide a judge of your own acquaintance; this would require extra anti-collusion measures.

3) You will probably not be allowed to "cut off" the trials. Here's an anecdote illustrating why not: Supposing that you've brought a potato hanging on a string, and JREF gives you ten trials to make it swing using your TK ability. Supposing, on the first trial, you concentrate for three minutes, then announce, "It worked! It's swinging!"; on the second trial you announce this after 30 seconds, and on a third trial you announce it after 10 minutes. This same result could be achieved without telekinesis, simply by waiting for random breezes/vibrations/insects, then claiming credit for the results.

Two ways to avoid this might be: a) Perhaps you're not allowed to see the item; that assures JREF that you didn't simply wait for a random fluctuation and claim credit. (But, don't worry, they won't test you like that if your power doesn't work like that.) b) Perhaps all of the trials will last the same length. The third-party-observer will watch the item for ten minutes on every trial, not knowing when or whether you thought something happened.

d) You probably will get an "open trial", without all of these precautions---a chance to make sure that you're happy working with these items in this room, and to show the judge exactly what kind of motion to look for. If everything works for you in the open trial, you should have no excuse for saying "My TK didn't work because of the fluorescent lights" or somesuch, if you fail the blinded test.

e) Does your power work every time you apply it? You will not be allowed to accept or reject trials during the test. You don't get to sit there with the pendulum for ten minutes, stop, and say, "OK, I must be tired, let's try that one again." If your power doesn't work every time, you must tell JREF this when you begin the negotiations. Tell them how often you think it will work under the test conditions; if you expect 50% of the trials to end with a "ugh, sorry, lemme try again", then tests can be designed to accomodate that. The only thing JREF will count is "item moved as required in N trials" and "item did not move in M trials."; they will not count "Y trials where the item didn't move, but subject said he'd try again."

f) You will probably not be permitted to touch the items. In fact, it's better if you're separated from them by glass. If your power can only be transmitted to things you're in contact with, holding in your lap, blowing on, etc., then you're unlikely to be testable.

 

[Mojo]

...all the way up to creating unexplained motion in galactic bodies.

The sort of timescale involved in observing the results might make that one a bit tricky to test...

 

[petre]

The sort of timescale involved in observing the results might make that one a bit tricky to test...

Well, since such motion would already defy known laws of physics, I don't have much problem believing faster-than-light movement would be possible then too.

Hurling the moon into the sun would work too, and could be done at sub-light speeds in less than an hour

 

[Loss Leader]

Hurling the moon into the sun would work too, and could be done at sub-light speeds in less than an hour

14% of the speed of light might technically fit the definition of "sub-light" but 26,000 miles per second still seems very fast. It would also appreciably increase the mass of the moon and I'm not sure but there might be some sort of time dilation that makes it seem like longer than an hour.

Also, without the moon, our planet would wobble on its axis and I get seasick as it is.

 

[Fredrik]

I was just wondering what you need to do to win the prize money if you have telekinesis.

You just have to do what you say you can do, in an environment where the JREF thinks it's impossible to cheat. The details depend on the exact claim of course.

Watching the James Hydrick video on youtube if the person was able to move the pages without blowing would he have got the prize money.

I don't know how it worked back then, but if this happened now, he would have to pass a preliminary test and then a final test. The final test would not be performed by the JREF. The preliminary test would be a pretty simple test, like the one you saw. (I assume you're talking about the first video listed in thread 77198. I tried to include a link to that thread, but I wasn't allowed to). The final test would be pretty much the same.

Does micro PK count as telekinesis.

Of course.

 

[The Atheist]

I was just wondering what you need to do to win the prize money if you have telekinesis. The Psi wheel isn't telekinesis so that won't be used. Watching the James Hydrick video on youtube if the person was able to move the pages without blowing would he have got the prize money. Does micro PK count as telekinesis.

I see you've had a few answers, but the real answer is very, very simple:


Perform a feat of telekinesis, i.e. make an object move without physical means.

The person responsible can then go and collect the billions of dollars and worldwide acclaim this will bring.

Answer to your question regarding the pages of a telephone book. Sealed inside an airtight container in controlled surroundings, checked for trickery? That would certainly qualify.

 

[Jackalgirl]

I was just wondering what you need to do to win the prize money if you have telekinesis. The Psi wheel isn't telekinesis so that won't be used. Watching the James Hydrick video on youtube if the person was able to move the pages without blowing would he have got the prize money.

Everyone here has given you some very sound advice. To boil down the JREF Challenge into a basic process:

1) You read both the Challenge Application and FAQ. I also suggest that you read Randi's FAQ.
2) You fill out, sign, and have notarized the Application. This will include a brief synopsis of the following:
- a) what you will demonstrate
- b) how you will demonstrate it
- c) how accurate the results will be in order to qualify as a success
3) Once this has been received by JREF and (if you have done everything correctly), the protocol negotation phase will begin, although you may be asked to provide three affidavits signed by professionals before the process continues.
-a ) In the protocol negotiation phase, you and JREF will both work on the "how you will demonstrate it" and "how accurate..." portions until you both have arrived at a protocol with which you both agree.
4) You will perform a preliminary test with representatives duly appointed by JREF (usually a local skeptic or skeptic group, though someone from JREF may be there if you're close enough to JREF).
5) If you are successful, another test is performed (either by a JREF staffer or someone duly appointed by JREF) -- successful completion of this gets you a $10,000 check, then you'll get the rest of the $1 Million within 10 days (this gives JREF time to move the bonds out of, er, bondage).

Now, mind you, I (nor is anyone else who's responded) am not a representative of JREF, so do not take my explanation as gospel. Instead, follow step 1 and make sure you have read the Application and FAQ. If you need any points clarified, ask Jeff Wagg by sending an email to challenge@randi.org.

Notice that I have not mentioned TK anywhere in this so far; this process applies to any claim MADE BEFORE APRIL 1 (after that, the rules change).

How would you go about proving you have telekinesis?

Me? I'd pick up Mr. Wagg, flip him upside-down, and shake all the change out of his pocket. Or I'd offer to fly Randi up high enough to see the curvature of the earth. But if I had that kind of TK, I'd probably be too busy becoming a mass murderer going over to Darfur and making sure that those villagers are kept safe, or remotely setting off IEDs in Iraq before they blew up troops or police, etc.

Does micro PK count as telekinesis.

I'm not sure what you mean by "micro PK". If you are having trouble figuring out a way to design a properly controlled test, this is the place for you! But please describe for us what you can do -- specifically, pick one thing that you can do the best, and let us know what that is. Bunches of us here really like to design tests and will be happy to help. : )

 

[becomingagodo]

Is telekinesis classed as paranormal?
Because what if their is a simple examplation for it other then the usual claims of opening your chakas or chi. Like what if it just evolution or something to do with quantum mechanics like Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff theory that your brain has quantum propertise in the microtubules. Being a layman I can't fully understand the microtubules theory, however their was a paper written about how microtubules corresponds to chi. If the person doesn't class telekinesis as paranormal and can demostrate telekinesis does he get the money.

Another thing are you allowed breaks and do you have to show it straight away. Because sitting down and moving something within two minautes is hard if the thing was air tight then I don't see why their needs to be a time limit.

 

[Oualawouzou]

TK is firmly into the realm of the paranormal. The moment you see the words "opening your chi", you are delving into the world of pseudo-scientific claptrap.

If you need two hours to move a paperclip 5 centimeters, then you'll have two hours to perform. You make the claim, you have to state your abilities, including the time frame necessary.

 

[becomingagodo]

Yes but what if you don't believe in chi or any other paranormal stuff and have telekinesis. Then would you get the money.

 

[prewitt81]

If the person doesn't class telekinesis as paranormal and can demostrate telekinesis does he get the money.

Your opinion has no positive or negative impact on the test.

1. Say what you can do.
2. Do it.
3. Profit.

If I could move something even 2 cm with my mind, I'd drop what I was doing and grab the million while I still could. I certainly wouldn't waste my time arguing over definitions.

 

[ben m]

Yes but what if you don't believe in chi or any other paranormal stuff and have telekinesis. Then would you get the money.

JREF, along with the scientific community, believe that telekinesis does not occur at all, for any reason at all---there's no chi-TK, there's no micro-TK, there's no quantum-TK, there's no non-paranormal-brainwave-TK. If you can prove them wrong, by demonstrating TK in a straightforward test, you will win the million dollars.

Once again: if you're serious, please realize that the initial application has to be sent in by April 1st---less than two weeks from now. That's a sheet of paper you have to print out, take to a Notary Public (your bank probably has one), sign and mail---it's not something you can do by email on the evening of March 31st. (There's plenty of time to figure out the test protocol details after that.)

If you miss the April 1st deadline, you'll have to convince *some independent observer* of your TK abilities, then approach JREF with the results. There are several regional skeptic societies which can do these observations for you.

 

[CynicalSkeptic]

Yes but what if you don't believe in chi or any other paranormal stuff and have telekinesis. Then would you get the money.

As long as Randi and the JREF believe is paranormal, or psuedo-scientific, or impossible according to the known laws of physics, it can qualify. Whether or not the applicant believes that makes no difference.

 

[becomingagodo]

Once again: if you're serious, please realize that the initial application has to be sent in by April 1st---less than two weeks from now.

Does the contest end april the 1st or is it some joke i.e. april fools. So after april 1st JREF will not be doing the preliminary test. Is this contest going to be going forever i.e. the million pounds will always be up for grabs.

 

[Oualawouzou]

Have you even checked the challenge page?

the million pounds will always be up for grabs.

Truer words have never been spoken.
(if you overlook "pounds" instead of "dollars", of course)

 

[IXP]

Your questions have been answered. Why don't you reciprocate now by answering this one:

If you claim telekinetic ability, you should simply tell us what you can do.

Perhaps then we will be able to advise you in more detail.

IXP