Buddhist Metaphysics, Superstitions, and Traditions?

[Nathyn]

I consider myself a Buddhist, but I'm also a skeptic. I'm part of a community of skeptical buddhists, here:

http://www.sasana.org/

Most Buddhists, however, are not skeptics. They literally believe in the metaphysical baggage of Buddhism, which is different, better or worse, dependent on the tradition. They also frequently claim that the metaphysical aspects to Buddhism are critical to the belief system as a whole.

Some of the outstanding claims made by Buddhists:

• Enlightened monks can gain supernatural powers, such as telepathy, telekinesis, teleportation, levitation, immortality, invulnerability, and just about anything, really.
• When you die, you literally go to one of six realms (the lowest realm is hell, though it's not eternal) based upon your karma. If you're a Buddhist, you're never reborn as anything less than a human.
• About karma -- everything you do impacts your future life, not in the sense that your choices make the world a better place, but like, giving somebody the middle-finger when they cut you off in traffic might make you stub your toe. Or, as another example, schizophrenics are people who are paying for the "past karma" of taxing intoxicants in a previous life.
• Certain chants and mantras (such the Tibetan "Om mani padme hum") can bring about positive effects on the world.
• There are frequently said to be supernatural beings, such as gods (kamis in Japan), dragons, faeries, ogres, demons, spirits, ghosts, and dwarves.
• In Tibetan Buddhism, there is the idea that there are enlightened people who voluntarily choose to come back to Earth after death to help other people. They are called "tulkus." I.E., the Dalai Lama is the God of Compassion, who has come in the form of several different human bodies over several centuries now. Steven Seagal has also been confirmed as a tulku, though he has no official position in Tibetan Buddhim. Tulkus are sometimes confirmed through the previous tulku leaving a note with an ambiguous "clue" as to where he'll be reincarnated. The main sign, though, is that the person (usually a child) is familiar with the dead man's possessions and recognizes people that knew him.

Now obviously, I'm sure you will agree this is patent nonsense.

Many westerners, though, perhaps even atheists and skeptics might think that eastern religion isn't prone to the same kind of irrational dogmatism or that they don't have corrupt clergymen like we do. It simply isn't true.

The Buddha was unique in having a wonderful teaching of critical thought:

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own sense of reason and your own common sense."

-Buddha

However, Buddhists and monastics do not seem to agree with this (or perhaps I'm the one who is in error!) because when you question the metaphysics, they assert that you need to "investigate more."

 

[username]

As a western half Buddhist I read the list of claims you see others making and do not recognize any of them being attributed to Buddha himself.

I think the problem is not with Buddhism, but humans and their propensity for dogma.

In many cultures where Buddhism predominates we see it being institutionalized, codified and divided among sectarian lines.

Many westerners, though, perhaps even atheists and skeptics might think that eastern religion isn't prone to the same kind of irrational dogmatism or that they don't have corrupt clergymen like we do. It simply isn't true.

Well, I think this may be true of some (maybe many), but of the western Buddhists I know it is not. We are well aware of the claims some make which are lacking in empirical evidence and we mostly just reject them. We do not live in a culture where any kind of orthodoxy regarding Buddhism is expected. As a result we feel no compulsion to accept the faith based beliefs some cultures have attached to Buddhism, we just go to the core message of the Buddha and examine it. We find that the four noble truths and 8 fold path make empirical claims and this appeals to us because our western religions make only faith based claims which we are weary of.

I do know of some western Buddhists who do believe in a physical reincarnation, but they are something far less than dogmatic about it because they realize there is no evidence for the belief.

The Buddha was unique in having a wonderful teaching of critical thought:

Yes, he was. All I can say is that I encourage you to heed the Buddha's words. Use your brain and never be intimidated by dogmatists who make claims far exceeding the evidence they have to support them. Examine everything. It is your birthright.

 

[Apathia]

Nathyn,

Thanks for the linky!

I generally don't identify myself as a Buddhist, just because of the baggage of folk Buddhism you list above. It's good to see skeptical Buddhists scraping that prac off the Dharma.

 

[Ryokan]

I also consider myself a Buddhist and a sceptic. And an atheist.

There is a LOT in Buddhism to be sceptical of.

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own sense of reason and your own common sense."

-Buddha

And now's the time to get sceptical, I'm afraid. What sutra is that from?

For Buddhism and scepticism, I reccomend doing a search for the Kalama Sutra of the Pali canon.

ETA:

I'm part of a community of skeptical buddhists, here:

http://www.sasana.org/

Wow, I think I've found my sangha

 

[Nathyn]

I also consider myself a Buddhist and a sceptic. And an atheist.

There is a LOT in Buddhism to be sceptical of.



And now's the time to get sceptical, I'm afraid. What sutra is that from?

I do know it's from one of the sutras, but not which one because to be quite honest, I'm new to Buddhism.

However, in my defense, I can cite the Zen koan about the Diamond sutra Master -- being mindful is far more important than knowledge of the sutras.

 

[Ryokan]

I do know it's from one of the sutras, but not which one because to be quite honest, I'm new to Buddhism.

However, in my defense, I can cite the Zen koan about the Diamond sutra Master -- being mindful is far more important than knowledge of the sutras.

I'm pretty sure it's not in any sutra. At least not any I'm familiar with. A web-search came up empty, except for the same quote simply attributed to the Buddha. The Buddha says a lot about scepticism in the Kalama Sutra, but not like that. I'm willing to be shown I'm wrong, though.

As for your second point, I agree absolutely. But that still doesn't mean it's wise to attribute quotes to the Buddha that he never said.

 

[Dancing David]

I find i enjoy E-Sangha, but it is a good practice in healthy speech all the time. Especialy when I read that annatta does not mean that the buddha taught there is no self. Because then they can claim the middle way. Annatta is annatta, there is no self. Regardless of rationalization to make themselves reincarnated. Ugh, might as well go to the Station for Rock Candy Mountain and grab a baby jesus ticket.

I will check out your link, thanks!

 

[Rrose Selavy]

I would consider myself to be a Buddhist and an Atheist but as mentioned by others, it's important to go back to what the Buddha actually said and also what he didn't say.

I learnt some basic traditional meditations 20 years ago through visiting an FWBO centre (which had a profound effect on me at the time ) however I am well aware of the "controversies " that surrounded the FWBO and it's founder - which I won't go into - at the time I sensed some of the issues that arose and would love to have found a sanga that i could wholeheartedly embrace but sadly the FWBO wasn't to be it.

The concept of past lives was one that still is, very difficult to comprehend , unless you see it as a metaphor - indeed many of the demons, deities etc can be seen as representations of manifestations of states of mind .

I am sceptical , but some of the experiences of dyana (or absorption) which I had particularly when i started meditating did lend me to feel they could be interpreted as a form of telepathy - in the sense of being open and able to interpret people's feelings in a remarkable but subtle way -or at least it felt that way - but these experiences are said to be mundane and simply evidence of the very early stages of "insight" - the emotional equivalent of intellectual understanding.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Thanks for the link !

I was actually just about to start a topic for suggestions for the skeptical Buddhist. I just came home from buying Buddhism Without Beliefs, it looks prety good !