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PS Audio Noise Harvester

MRC_Hans said:
It is not snake oil because it has been proved to work, and the theory of how it works is well understood and makes sense.

Hans
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That comment is further proof that skeptics cherry pick what they want to see... I never said it was snake oil.
 
ExtremeSkeptic said:
People like you make this world a worse place. It is evil to stall progression in science by spreading lies. When he realizes that you have lied to him what do you think will happen? It's only a matter of time. After he keeps tweaking his system to make it more revealing he can easily hear if it has been on or off, I promise you that.
Click to expand...

:dl:

Thanks I need that laugh.........

Paul

:) :) :)

That's why it never worked, because there was nothing behide it, like your ideas on the BS paper.
 
Now right after the silver wire thing, I got his wife into trouble. He would drag his wife into the room after he changed the wire because she has much better ears and would say she didn’t hear any different. But because he wouldn’t let up and after some years went by, she finally gave in and would agree with him just to shout him up, but that doesn’t work in the long run because he would be at it again and more BS wire would be changed.

Now after the wire thing I talked to his wife and said quietly to her, “You don’t hear anything either do you” and she said quietly “No she didn’t and she was sick to death about the whole thing, and said there was no different in sound”, well he walked in when she saying that, and got all upset because before that he would always use her as his proof and now that was gone.

Bass always depends on placement, and not on BS paper.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
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Paulhoff said:
Now right after the silver wire thing, I got his wife into trouble. He would drag his wife into the room after he changed the wire because she has much better ears and would say she didn’t hear any different. But because wouldn’t let up and after some years went by, she finally gave in and would agree with him just to shout him up, but that doesn’t work in the long run because he would be at it again and more BS wire would be changed.

Now after the wire thing I talked to his wife and said quietly to her, “You don’t hear anything either do you” and she said quietly “No she didn’t and she was sick to death about the whole thing, and said there was no different in sound”, well he walked in when she saying that, and got all upset because before that he would always use her as his proof and now that was gone.

Bass always depends on placement, and not on BS paper.

Paul

:) :) :)
Click to expand...

Yes, that's it. There _is_ a difference, but the source is not a $499 tweak. It is IMHO not ES who is to blame, its that [rule8] part of the industry.

Wait... that industry wouldn't succeed without all these ESs.

OTOH I do believe, that he really hears a difference. Measuring certain differences is really hard. You hardly will, for example, see something which is 120 dB below the avearge sound level on a scope, but a trained ear can quite well hear it.

Let me give you an example: I am teaching violin (just as a hobby, I like teaching). OK, here you have a beginner - he/she does not even hear that a tone is out of tune. After some 6 months of practicing they now hear that the tone is out of tune, but are unable to distinguish if it is sharp or flat and it takes another 6 months or so until they hear that and are able to correct to a pitch, which is close (but not exactly) to what the pitch should be. And then it takes several years until their intonation is really "at the point".
(I was speaking about an average student, there are exceptions of course, who get it much faster). At the end professionals can play doublestops so exact, that the subharmonics (right word??, maybe "mix frequencies") together with the played notes form a perfect chord, not even playing alone, but also in duets with an equally skilled partner.
This is something, which can be easily measured. I do not hesitate to assume, that long training enables somebody to hear very subtle differences in sound, which are, of course measurable (but not _that_ easy). I just doubt, that the differences are caused by the equipment in all cases. As I have written in my previous post, I assume that differences in the rooms properties, and as you claimed, in the momentary condition of the listener are the real cause.
So the problem with people like ES is not to prove they are wrong in their claim that they hear a difference. They are just wrong in their interpretation of the cause.
 
The first farmer went to a neighbor farmer to borrow a mule, the first farmer asked if the mule was a good worker and the other farmer said, "Yes of course". The next day the first farmer goes to his neighbor with the mule and is pissed as hell. The first farmer says, “You said the mule was a good worker, I couldn’t get him to do a lick of work”. The neighbor walks over and grabs a long 2 by 4 and walks to the mules and hits the mule over the head with the 2 by 4 and looks at the first farmer and says “You got to get its attention first”.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
EternalSceptic said:
Yes, that's it. There _is_ a difference, but the source is not a $499 tweak. It is IMHO not ES who is to blame, its that [rule8] part of the industry.

Wait... that industry wouldn't succeed without all these ESs.

OTOH I do believe, that he really hears a difference. Measuring certain differences is really hard. You hardly will, for example, see something which is 120 dB below the avearge sound level on a scope, but a trained ear can quite well hear it.

Let me give you an example: I am teaching violin (just as a hobby, I like teaching). OK, here you have a beginner - he/she does not even hear that a tone is out of tune. After some 6 months of practicing they now hear that the tone is out of tune, but are unable to distinguish if it is sharp or flat and it takes another 6 months or so until they hear that and are able to correct to a pitch, which is close (but not exactly) to what the pitch should be. And then it takes several years until their intonation is really "at the point".
(I was speaking about an average student, there are exceptions of course, who get it much faster). At the end professionals can play doublestops so exact, that the subharmonics (right word??, maybe "mix frequencies") together with the played notes form a perfect chord, not even playing alone, but also in duets with an equally skilled partner.
This is something, which can be easily measured. I do not hesitate to assume, that long training enables somebody to hear very subtle differences in sound, which are, of course measurable (but not _that_ easy). I just doubt, that the differences are caused by the equipment in all cases. As I have written in my previous post, I assume that differences in the rooms properties, and as you claimed, in the momentary condition of the listener are the real cause.
So the problem with people like ES is not to prove they are wrong in their claim that they hear a difference. They are just wrong in their interpretation of the cause.
Click to expand...
Except that with the proper equipment, that signal 120dB down can be picked up and analyzed. A simple oscilloscope won't becapable of showing you that and the higher level tones simultaneously, but a good spectrum analyzer can.

The problem with audiophiles is that they don't know what tools it takes to measure things that can be heard.
 
MortFurd said:
Except that with the proper equipment, that signal 120dB down can be picked up and analyzed. A simple oscilloscope won't becapable of showing you that and the higher level tones simultaneously, but a good spectrum analyzer can.

The problem with audiophiles is that they don't know what tools it takes to measure things that can be heard.
Click to expand...

I'd disagree to some extent. It's not the fact they don't know the tools to use to measure, it's the fact that they try agressively to keep things unquantifiable.

Ignorance is curable. Stupid goes right to the bone.
 
ExtremeSkeptic said:
The cut off will be different on different planets.
Click to expand...


And just how are audiophilosophers ever going to get to other planets? I picture it something like this...

The Voyage of the U.S.S. Audioprise
or
Reality: The Final Frontier

"Engine room to Captain!" came the signal from below.
"There's been a wee disruption in the anti-matter flow.
The engine's down, the warp core's cracked, our force field's lost its force,
The life support is failing, and we're drifting off our course."

The Captain, seated in his chair, his bridge crew close at hand,
Alert to every detail that affected his command,
Received the news with stoic mien and educated ear,
Then spoke into the intercom to tell the Engineer:

"Scotty, your bass is terrible, it's lacking constitution.
It sounds like RF noise is causing loss of resolution.
Your soundstage is too narrow and your midranges sound masked.
Have you wrapped your mike cord up in sheep's intestine like I asked?

"Aye, Sir, I have," said Scotty, "But that's not important now.
We need to find replacement parts and make repairs somehow.
The crystals ha'e burned out, and all the fuel supplies are done.
We've only fourteen hours 'til we drift into the sun."

The Captain turned his chair around to face the Science Station,
And said to Spock, "We need your help to solve this situation."
"Aye aye, Captain," said Spock. "I'm sure we have no need to fear.
Remember, Mr. Scott is nothing but an engineer."

"He knows only Basic Physics, which I learned in just a week.
We need Advanced Physics to find the answers that we seek.
I have no doubt, with my knowledge, our problem I'll unravel
By gazing in this viewport, which is focused on my navel."

"Good thinking, Spock," the Captain said, approval on his face.
"Your Vulcan lack-of-logic is a credit to your race."
"Indeed," said Spock. "From my perspective, it's a great unkown
How humans manage to survive being so logic-prone."

"Excuse me, Sir," Uhuru said, with all her usual poise.
"It's obvious to me that the whole problem must be noise.
Tell Mr. Scott to glue a jar of pebbles to his head,
And replace all of the fuses with link sausages instead."

"Thank you, Lieutenant," said the Captain. "Any more ideas?
How about you, Doctor, have you any panaceas?"
McCoy said, "Don't ask me, I'm sure old pointy-ears knows best.
I'm a doctor, not a poet, so I've nothing to suggest."

Just then, the Helmsman sat up straight, concern upon his brow.
"Six Klingons, in attack formation, off the starboard bow!"
"Red alert!" the Captain said. "Raise the shields without delay.
Hey, why does the Red Alert sound thin, with such a long decay?"

"What Klingons?" said the Engineer, arriving on the scene.
"The scanners show no Klingons, and there's nothing on the screen."
The Captain said, "Why Mr. Scott, there's no need to be jealous.
Our senses convey more than your machines can ever tell us."

"Tha' makes na sense at all," said Scotty, tearing out his hair.
"If scanners show no Klingons, then there be nae Klingons there!
The viewscreen that you're looking at operates in this manner:
The computer makes an image from the data from the scanner!"

"Fire Phasers!" said the Captain, and the beams stabbed at the void.
"We hit one!" yelled Sulu. "Looks like three have been destroyed."
"Fire at will," the Captain said, "but limit the attack.
Three shots destroys them all, but after four shots, they come back."

It seemed like only moments 'til the phantom battle ended.
The crew was filled with pride in their great ship so well defended.
That is, all but the Engineer, who muttered with chagrin
As all the instruments confirmed the sun was closing in.

Then Spock stood up abruptly from the viewer he'd been viewing,
And said, "I have an answer to the problem I've been brewing.
Captain, direct the viewscreen toward our destination star,
And I will show you all what I have figured out so far."

"You see that little dot of light, the place we want to go?
Stare at it, without blinking. You'll begin to see it grow.
Please notice, as you watch it, that it starts to look much clearer.
From that, I think we can conclude, it's really getting nearer!"

And one by one, as each crewman stared at that point of light,
Each of them came to realize that Advanced Physics was right!
"You've saved us!" said the Captain. "You saw what we all missed.
You've proven that our problems couldn't possibly exist!"

The crew rejoiced again in celebration. Even Scotty laughed,
As he headed to the bay and started up the shuttle craft.
The ship was never seen again, but there were shed no tears
By those who reached their distant worlds -- all of them engineers.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
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Paulhoff said:
Now right after the silver wire thing, I got his wife into trouble. He would drag his wife into the room after he changed the wire because she has much better ears and would say she didn’t hear any different. But because he wouldn’t let up and after some years went by, she finally gave in and would agree with him just to shout him up, but that doesn’t work in the long run because he would be at it again and more BS wire would be changed.

Now after the wire thing I talked to his wife and said quietly to her, “You don’t hear anything either do you” and she said quietly “No she didn’t and she was sick to death about the whole thing, and said there was no different in sound”, well he walked in when she saying that, and got all upset because before that he would always use her as his proof and now that was gone.
Click to expand...
People with crappy ears want to join others with the same disability so together they can make themselves believe there isn't a difference. It makes them feel happy.

Paulhoff said:
Bass always depends on placement, and not on BS paper.
Click to expand...
Ignorance may be bliss to you, but not to me. You don't know what you are missing. I'm not the one losing here...
 
osmosis said:
Oh I see, so it's bad to read and learn and look out into the world for answers. That certainly explains your obvious ignorance of, well, pretty much everything.
Click to expand...
Imagine you enter a planet of monkeys, they show you books about bananas they have written and laugh that you don't want to read them. Then they call you ignorant when you tell them there is no value to you in those books.
It's the same with me, I have entered the Universe and why would I be interested in learning your rules?
 
Myriad said:
And just how are audiophilosophers ever going to get to other planets? I picture it something like this...

The Voyage of the U.S.S. Audioprise
or
Reality: The Final Frontier

"Engine room to Captain!" came the signal from below...
Click to expand...
When skeptics get close to a truth they don't want to be true they try to do other stuff to distract them from it. They make jokes and become irrational.
 
Paulhoff said:
01001000011001010010000001100111011001010111010001110011001000000011000100110000001000000111000001101111011010010110111001110100001000000110100101100110001000000110100001100101001000000110011101100101011101000111001100100000011101000110100001101001011100110010110000100000011011100110111101110100001000000111001101100001011110010110100101101110011001110010000001101000011001010010000001100011011000010110111001101110001001110111010000101110

Paul

:) :) :)
Click to expand...

Paulhoff said:
010001110110010101100101011001010010110000100000011010000110010100100000011010000110000101110011011011100010011101110100001000000110011101101111011101000010000001110100011010000110100101110011001000000111001101101111001000000110011001100001011100100010110000100000011101110110010100100000011000110110000101101110001000000110100001101111011100000110010100101110001011100010111000101110001011100010111000001101000010100000110100001010

01010000011000010111010101101100

:) :) :)
Click to expand...

They also start bragging about meaningless stuff because they have nothing else left. They want something extra which prevents themselves from feeling meaningless. When they have "knowledge" of something someone else doesn't they like to brag about it because they have made themselves believe it means something. It makes them happy.
 
Bye bye young one.

Paul

:) :) :)

Scotty beam up....................

Myriad that was excellent
 
EternalSceptic said:
Yes, that's it. There _is_ a difference, but the source is not a $499 tweak. It is IMHO not ES who is to blame, its that [rule8] part of the industry.

Wait... that industry wouldn't succeed without all these ESs.

OTOH I do believe, that he really hears a difference. Measuring certain differences is really hard. You hardly will, for example, see something which is 120 dB below the avearge sound level on a scope, but a trained ear can quite well hear it.

Let me give you an example: I am teaching violin (just as a hobby, I like teaching). OK, here you have a beginner - he/she does not even hear that a tone is out of tune. After some 6 months of practicing they now hear that the tone is out of tune, but are unable to distinguish if it is sharp or flat and it takes another 6 months or so until they hear that and are able to correct to a pitch, which is close (but not exactly) to what the pitch should be. And then it takes several years until their intonation is really "at the point".
(I was speaking about an average student, there are exceptions of course, who get it much faster). At the end professionals can play doublestops so exact, that the subharmonics (right word??, maybe "mix frequencies") together with the played notes form a perfect chord, not even playing alone, but also in duets with an equally skilled partner.
This is something, which can be easily measured. I do not hesitate to assume, that long training enables somebody to hear very subtle differences in sound, which are, of course measurable (but not _that_ easy). I just doubt, that the differences are caused by the equipment in all cases. As I have written in my previous post, I assume that differences in the rooms properties, and as you claimed, in the momentary condition of the listener are the real cause.
So the problem with people like ES is not to prove they are wrong in their claim that they hear a difference. They are just wrong in their interpretation of the cause.
Click to expand...
I practice a skill far more advanced than violin, it takes forever to master it. Nobody else will understand it and I accept that because I accept all possibilities.

Many have already made up their minds and don't want anything to change their minds, so they have locked themselves inside a box and thrown away the key. Only a fool would try to convert them because that possibility would still remain and there is nothing you can do about it. When looking at this thread you see skeptics trying to convert the audiophiles...it's not hard to see who lacks the proper logic.

The audiophiles who try to convert the skeptics are almost as bad. Because the skeptics aren't interested in getting proper audio quality, they want to live in their dream world with their measurement toys and primitive microprocessors. If they want limited understanding it's their choice. They are afraid of the unknown, that's why they only believe what is written in simple books. But being afraid of the unknown doesn't lead you anywhere. Like they say, ignorance is bliss. But they don't realize they are ignorant themselves, because it isn't written in their books.
 
ExtremeSkeptic said:
People like to laugh at the truth instead of accept it and deal with it.
Click to expand...

If by "the truth", you mean yet another one of your lame-brained opinions, then yes I for one would much prefer to just laugh at it.

That must be the kind of "truth" you're talking about, as it's the only kind you'll ever know.
 
Paulhoff said:
:dl:

Thanks I need that laugh.........

Paul

:) :) :)

That's why it never worked, because there was nothing behide it, like your ideas on the BS paper.
Click to expand...
The most evil people are the ones who don't think they are evil. The least evil people are the ones who ask themselves if they are evil or not.
 
EternalSceptic said:
This is something, which can be easily measured. I do not hesitate to assume, that long training enables somebody to hear very subtle differences in sound, which are, of course measurable (but not _that_ easy). I just doubt, that the differences are caused by the equipment in all cases. As I have written in my previous post, I assume that differences in the rooms properties, and as you claimed, in the momentary condition of the listener are the real cause.

So the problem with people like ES is not to prove they are wrong in their claim that they hear a difference. They are just wrong in their interpretation of the cause.
Click to expand...

You are talking about people who have actually worked to refine their skills and have presumably acquired some sort of discipline as well.

I just don't see how ES fits in with your analogy. When ES wants some new skills he just "goes deep down inside" and retrieves them, since they were always there in the first place. Why should he have to waste his precious time listening, thinking, working when it's all so easy for him?
 
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