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What is a conspiracy theorist?

Don't know P'doh and don't know SLC.

A sock being, somebody who gets info from one and claims it as their own? Sorry bubb, I got my own brain.

Only the True P'doh would deny being the P'doh! [/LifeOfBrian]




Seriously, doesn't he use this same line with each sock? Has there ever been someone accused of being PD'oh, who used this line, and turned out to actually not be PD'oh?

If we were playing poker, this would be his tell.
 
Of course, up till now, all the evidence has been debunked. So does that say something about the evidence, or about our willingness to accept it?

One man's "debunk" is another man's "eh, maybe."

See, just because a piece of evidence has been "debunked" (as defined and accepted by a group who MUST debunk all evidence to conspiracy), does not mean that the event did not happen.

Debunk all you want, and there will still be a huge (and growing) number of people who believe the official story is bunk.
 
I take comfort in knowing that we have laws that require crimes to be investigated (and 9/11 has been and is still being investigated).

Yes, it is good that it is "still being investigated." But, doesn't that mean that we really don't have a true "official version," then? If it's still being investigated, then we are still awaiting that official version! (Yes, that means it just might change, AGAIN!)

So hold onto your hats folks! And maybe we should all just wait until this investigation concludes before arguing about it, either way?
 
That would take a very long time to explain here. Let's just say it has to do with the ownership thereof, as well as a long history of selectively reporting, and selectively "holding back."

No, no please do explain.

Oh and do you mean the entire world MSM or just the USA?
 
But the whole basis of your argument agains the 911 Commission Report is that there are discrepancies with the NIST report - if you don't want to argue that, what is your argument? Also, if you accept that the NIST report superseded the 911 Commission report where engineering issues were concerned, that means that the questions have been answered, unless you want to point out specific drawbacks of the NIST report.


Wayne Trumpman's analysis of the fall of WTC1 at http://www.911research.wtc7.net/papers/trumpman/CoreAnalysisFinal.htm has some interesting figures about the excess of kinetic energy from the falling part of the building over the amount needed to disrupt the structure. Despite taking a mass for the tower that is only 40% of the mass given by other references, he still finds enough excess energy in the collapse to pulverize about 25% of the concrete to dust, on average, in the first four floors to collapse - the least energetic part of the collapse. Since other researchers, including Steven Jones, have found that a relatively small proportion of the concrete was pulverised to fine dust, it seems clear - despite Trumpman's attempts to conclude otherwise - that there was ample potential energy in the structure to collapse the steel supports and to produce the quantities of dust observed.

I'd recommend you read Trumpman's paper, as there is a considerable amount of detailed presentation of the calculations in it. It has some major errors - one is to assume that there was no excess of energy in the first collapse of a floor; his argument is based on the fact that the velocity of the falling portion of the building at the time of impact was no less than what would have been expected due to gravitational acceleration, but since at that instant the collision with the floor had not occurred, no discrepancy in velocity would be expected. However, he appears correct in stating that there is an excess of energy over the requirements to collapse the structure.

I'd recommend you also take a look at Frank Greening's articles on the collapse, at http://www.911myths.com/html/other_contributions.html, which address several aspects of the WTC collapses, with calculations. Greening addresses the rate of collapse in some detail, and explains exactly why a collapse in the observed range of 80-90% of free fall acceleration would be expected. Finally, of course, Bazant and Zhou's paper, at http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/WTC-asce.pdf, is one any serious student of the collapse should read, being a peer-reviewed analysis of a likely collapse scenario which shows a large excess of energy in the structure over that required for complete collapse.



I think you may be confusing heat (i.e. thermal energy) with temperature here. Hot things cool down unless they are either perfectly insulated or continuously heated. Molten iron is not a heat source. It may be a heat reservoir, but is not in itself producing heat. Also, I didn't say that the lack of insulation ruled out thermite, but that it ruled out thermite at the time of collapse. The point is that, if indeed there was molten metal under the rubble pile some weeks later, itself debatable as all the accounts can be traced back to a single unattributed eyewitness account, heat must have been generated at a time close to when the observation was made in order for the metal to remain molten. This is feasible for underground fires, which are generating heat continuously. Without such a heat source, metal melted at the time of collapse would cool and solidify. If, however, we accept that a heat source was present in the rubble pile capable of generating sufficiently high temperatures to maintain iron at its melting point, then that same heat source would necessarily be capable of melting iron that was in solid form at the time of the collapse of the towers. In other words, molten metal present some weeks after the collapse doesn't demonstrate the presence of molten metal during or shortly after the collapse, it simply demonstrates the presence of a heat source in the rubble pile.



NIST speculates as to the nature of the yellow hot substance, as does Jones. The colour similarity is a very dubious piece of data, as it relies on comparison of photographs taken in very different lighting conditions and with unknown post-processing having been done. All this is a very long way from proving that the substance is molten iron from a thermite reaction.



There will always be questions - the most well-understood events still contain some areas of uncertainty. What I have found, however, is that the explanations of these issues that are in accordance with the official account of the events of 911 tend to resolve large questions while leaving minor points unexplained, whereas those provided by the truth movement tend to explain minor points by creating enormous questions which are then left unresolved. In the end, it comes down to Occam's Razor for me.

I'll check them out. They are quite long so I may be a while.


About Occam's razor;

I can prove that a building CAN be brought down in the same manner seen on 9/11 with explosives. Just the same these guys are trying to prove that collapse due to structural failue is POSSIBLE. Occam's razor also says;
All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one
 
Well, I just think it is more easily explained if a few moles in strategic positions within the beurocratic structure were involved.
Nice.

So you can give us a coherent narrative of the events of 9/11, right? Must be easy.

Or if you have already done so, a link would greatly be appreciated.
No reaction. :(

It's "easily explained", but you just can't do it apparently.
 
Seriously, doesn't he use this same line with each sock? Has there ever been someone accused of being PD'oh, who used this line, and turned out to actually not be PD'oh?

If we were playing poker, this would be his tell.

Whatever you want to think. Just more of the same BS rhetoric and baseless accusations. Ad hominem delight.
 
About Occam's razor;

I can prove that a building CAN be brought down in the same manner seen on 9/11 with explosives. Just the same these guys are trying to prove that collapse due to structural failue is POSSIBLE. Occam's razor also says;

Of course, the only way you can get around the problem of Occam's razor is to have everyone assume that the towers were wired for demolition and not allow your theory to encompass the innumerable problems with how they were wired and who did it.
 
Whithout rights, you quite clearly have claimed that you can prove that the towers could have collapsed the way they did with the use of explosives.

Now please show us.
 
Really?

Please show me.

It is easy. If the building fell in 10-15 (close to freefall speed) or so secs, and demolition makes buildings fall at freefall speed (9-11 sec), then it is a simple conclusion that it is possible that explosives brought down the towers. What makes it not possible?
 
It is easy. If the building fell in 10-15 (close to freefall speed) or so secs, and demolition makes buildings fall at freefall speed (9-11 sec), then it is a simple conclusion that it is possible that explosives brought down the towers. What makes it not possible?

That's it?
 
It is easy. If the building fell in 10-15 (close to freefall speed) or so secs, and demolition makes buildings fall at freefall speed (9-11 sec), then it is a simple conclusion that it is possible that explosives brought down the towers. What makes it not possible?

If you could only do math you could see how many seconds it should take. Is it 10 percent more, 20 percent more. Why are truth movement guys so afraid to ask a physics teacher to model the WTC collapse and expose the truth movement of lies.

Why are you not capable of calculating it yourself? Why can't you get help? Why do you make up stuff instead of thinking and working to unravel the truth. There were no explosives. You do not understand physics do you?

The main problem is you do not know how long it would take either way. Plus you can not see the bottom to stop timing on the video. Plus you can not see close enough to start timing from the first movement. Plus you do not know how long a global collapse takes because you did not run the numbers. I came up with a 10 percent increase. Let me see, 10 percent of 9.2 seconds is .92 second longer than free fall. Add to 9.2, and you get 10.12 second just due to gravity. Yes the top destroys the whole building. Okay it took out most of the building and the cores not supported by the shell fell in the wind.

Darn, I think if I was math challenged I would ask my physics teacher what is going on. 10.12 seconds. What number do you have pdoh like rights man?
 
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Well. BS! also partially debunked the JFK one-shot magic bullet theory.

Anyway, a lot of conspiracies exist, yes. But until they are fact based, you cannot justify them as truth, and you should not try. This is why most (I assume) skeptics want facts.

Yes, yes. That is my whole point. Keep in mind I never said there was a second gunman. All I am saying is if a person looks at all the evidence it is not abundantly clear that the lone gunman theory is the best theory. So if someone chooses to believe otherwise, that doesn't make them a nut job. They have basis for their beliefs, a nut job comes up with things out of thin air. Even if you say it has been debunked, it is a weighing of information by the reader, and it is up to the reader to come to a decision based on what he/she knows. If you come to the conclusion without recognizing the chance of you being wrong and parade egotistically as the more intelligent one then you have abandonded logic. There is no definitive evidence that unequivocally supports a lone gunman theory (if anybody has some info that maybe missed I will welcome it), therefore to jump to a conclusion that anybody who doesn't support the lone gunman theory is an idiotic woo woo is baseless and childish.
 

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