New York Street question

[firecoins]

Firecoins,

Cars double park half on the sidewalk and half in the street on BOTH sides of the street and there is still room for a car with a wheelbase of over 100 inches to pass. How is that less than 3 meters?

come walk on some the street. They are not big.

 

[LashL]

come walk on some the street. They are not big.

They may not be "big" but I would think it nigh impossible for a two lane street in Manhattan serving several large buildings, to be a mere 9 feet, 9 inches wide.

 

[Mancman]

They may not be "big" but I would think it nigh impossible for a two lane street in Manhattan serving several large buildings, to be a mere 9 feet, 9 inches wide.

Indeed, all of the extremely narrow Prague backstreets I walked through were more than 3 metres wide. I was very surprised upon reading firecoins post, but then again, he lives in NYC, I've never been there!

 

[Gravy]

Sorry to butt in, but my post #15 is a statement of fact, not opinion.

 

[T.A.M.]

Honda Civic width (not including mirrors) = 5'7"

TAM

 

[gumboot]

Here is a photo of Barclay Street from a long time back...

I think it's safe to say that the truther's 3m figure is entirely wrong and always has been.

-Gumboot

 

[LashL]

Indeed, all of the extremely narrow Prague backstreets I walked through were more than 3 metres wide. I was very surprised upon reading firecoins post, but then again, he lives in NYC, I've never been there!

Well, I don't live there but I have been there several times. I think firecoins is simply mistaken. Maybe it's the metric

Firecoins, 3 meters is only approximately 9 feet, 9 inches. If the streets were as narrow as you estimate, that would mean that delivery trucks, for instance, would not be able to deliver anything to any of the buildings on Manhattan streets without blocking traffic in both directions. Hundreds of times per day. Every day.

Honda Civic width (not including mirrors) = 5'7"

I just measured my garage doors. Each one is 8 feet wide. I need all 8 feet of that width to get my car into the garage in order that the mirrors of my car clear the sides of the garage door by an inch or two on either side. And it's not a big car.

I think it's safe to say that a two lane street in a modern metropolitan area such as Manhattan, serving large commercial buildings, is a minimum of 20 feet wide, and I'd guess that they are typically even wider than that. They certainly are here in Toronto. I didn't measure the streets while I was in Manhattan, of course, but I don't recall feeling that the streets were particularly narrow, and I didn't see any backlogs due to a truck making a delivery.

 

[T.A.M.]

I'd say perhaps 5m would be a bit of a better judgement, but hey, I'm a cannuck, what do I know about NYC.

TAM

 

[Loss Leader]

Being a New Yorker I can tell you most of the streets by the WTC were probably less than 3 meters.

That might be true of some of the lanes burried down in the village, but none of the streets near the WTC are that narrow.

Even Cortlandt Alley, which is the smallest street I could find on the island, is about twelve feet across.

 

[LashL]

I'd say perhaps 5m would be a bit of a better judgement, but hey, I'm a cannuck, what do I know about NYC.

TAM

I'm a Canuck, too.

I was using feet and inches rather than meters (metres) because we're talking about NYC, that's all. I think that a minimum of 20 feet is required to allow two trucks (or even two cars with a wide wheel base) to safely operate in two adjacent lanes, and that would mean a minimum of 6.096 meters.

 

[~enigma~]

come walk on some the street. They are not big.

Then sidewalks are not big yet the streets can hold 2 cars doubleparked (half) and still fit another car? Lets take a wheelbase of 100 inches. That is 50 inches for each doubleparked car plus another 100 inches for the middle with another 50-100 inches left over. Adding the inches we get 250-300 inches. That is 20.8 - 25 feet. Care to restate your case? BTW, i used to live in NYC and I worked on Wall St.

ETA - When I was younger I drove a delivery truck through the Wall St. area on a daily basis.

 

[T.A.M.]

really, and here I thought it was 6.1m...lol

TAM

 

[LashL]

really, and here I thought it was 6.1m...lol

TAM

 

[Orphia Nay]

Check, cross-check, and double-cross check... that's what I like about this place.

Here's a couple of maps with scales from google and mapquest:

Here's a link to the WTC map from Wikipedia (which doesn't show the scale though):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WTC_Building_Arrangement_and_Site_Plan.jpg

 

[Foolmewunz]

I'm a Canuck, too.

I was using feet and inches rather than meters (metres) because we're talking about NYC, that's all. I think that a minimum of 20 feet is required to allow two trucks (or even two cars with a wide wheel base) to safely operate in two adjacent lanes, and that would mean a minimum of 6.096 meters.

Let's trust the tour guide on this, guys. There are streets(alleys) as little as ten feet wide, but they're not that common, and certainly not on any of the streets running off of, into, or adjacent to the WTC complex. Barclay is a pretty busy crosstown street (it's the northern border of the Woolworth Building if any of you can recall that particular landmark from a visit).

IIRC, the two narrowest streets running near or into WTC are the ones flanking the Millenium Hotel from Broadway to Church(and vice-versa), and both of those are also much wider than 3 metres (9.8 feet).

(Ann Street, thanks to the libretto by Charles Ives is purportedly ten feet wide, but I doubt it from the picture - see lnk - as the width of that van would seem to indicate it's more like twelve to fifteen feet wide, curb to curb. But even assuming it's 15 feet wide, if you compare that to any of the street pics from 9/11, you can get a good visual comparison. Vesey, Church, W. Broadway, Washington, Barclay, et al are considerably wider.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Street_(Manhattan)

 

[Foolmewunz]

Check, cross-check, and double-cross check... that's what I like about this place.

Here's a couple of maps with scales from google and mapquest:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/488445ea4794246af.gif[/qimg]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/488445ea47945bd29.gif[/qimg]

Here's a link to the WTC map from Wikipedia (which doesn't show the scale though):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WTC_Building_Arrangement_and_Site_Plan.jpg

I question the scale of street widths on those maps. On the first, Barclay is wider than Vesey. On the second, Vesey is wider than Barclay. In reality, Vesey is wider than Barclay from West Street to Church, but then narrows to what, IIRC, is roughly the same width. I worked in WTC 1 for ten years and traversed the area on my way to/from Jersey City(by PATH) for another decade.

 

[LashL]

<snip>Let's trust the tour guide on this, guys.

In case it wasn't clear, I agree with Gravy when he says that Barclay Street is a two lane street. I've been there. I don't know if you are taking issue with my personal estimates of the width of the street (as you quoted my post for your response) but I have not disagreed with Gravy's post about the number of lanes; rather, it was adding my p.o.v. about the minimum width of said lanes and said street, and my conclusion that it is impossible for Barclay Street to have been only 3 meters wide as was posited by someone else above. I believe that it is, at minimum, double that width.

 

[Foolmewunz]

In case it wasn't clear, I agree with Gravy when he says that Barclay Street is a two lane street. I've been there. I don't know if you are taking issue with my personal estimates of the width of the street (as you quoted my post for your response) but I have not disagreed with Gravy's post about the number of lanes; rather, it was adding my p.o.v. about the minimum width of said lanes and said street.

Not at all..... I kinda hit "quote" by accident... Shudda hit "Post Reply". I was reading your post and had seen all the forth-and-back on the topic. The "guys" makes no sense as a direct response.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[LashL]

Not at all..... I kinda hit "quote" by accident... Shudda hit "Post Reply". I was reading your post and had seen all the forth-and-back on the topic. The "guys" makes no sense as a direct response.

Sorry for the confusion.

No worries

 

[Alt+F4]

The whole problem with this thread is that most of you are talking about New York City AND the metric system.