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PS Audio Noise Harvester

ExtremeSkeptic said:
Some people think that there are images of 1's and 0's flowing inside the cables. They are analog, everything is. Since they are analog signals the timing of the data is affected. It's the same data but with a different timing. If the timing is different the end result sounds different.
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Okay. So the CD sampling rate is 44.1 kHz with 16 bits per sample, which would give us a bit length of about 1.4 microseconds. The speed of propagation of the electrical signal through a wire is something like 60 to 90% the speed of light, depending on the properties of the cable. If we go with 80%, that gives us a speed of 240 meters per microsecond. Meaning that each bit is about 336 meters long. Now you're telling me that a 1 meter cable is going to change the relative timing of those bits? (I'm ignoring the fact that this will be re-timed at the receiver anyway.)

Wow, I need to find a place that teaches this True Physics!TM
 
I want to stop living in the simple physics world and would love to move up to the advanced physics world where the simple rules don't apply.

Hopefully, my new mastery of advanced physics, will improve my golf game. ;)
 
ExtremeSkeptic said:
Advanced physics is little truer than simple physics, but it's still flawed. True physics is better. But true physics is still flawed since it's a name to describe something that is different from something else. But it's ignorance to think that something can be different. Everything is the same, real truth has no names, it can't be described, it's just everything. All you can do is to get as close as possible for a description of truth to be made.
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:dl:As someone who chose physics as a profession, I have never laughed so hard about so much nonsense in my life.

Seriously, are you for real?
 
elgarak said:
:dl:As someone who chose physics as a profession, I have never laughed so hard about so much nonsense in my life.

Seriously, are you for real?
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Sure he is, it's simply another name for a well-known concept. It's been popularized among New Age nutjobs as "perceptual reality" and it's various offshoots such as "creative visualization". You create what is real simply by believing in it. Of course, they're never entirely clear how many people need to beleive in something before it's manifest as the domiant reality, whether it's a universal or localized reality, why some people seem to be better at "believing" reality into being than others, despite being a clear minority, and so on.

It's an agglomeration of confirmation bias, observation bias, self-deception, subjectivism, and magical thinking typical of all new-agey religious types.
 
luchog said:
Sure he is, it's simply another name for a well-known concept. It's been popularized among New Age nutjobs as "perceptual reality" and it's various offshoots such as "creative visualization". You create what is real simply by believing in it. Of course, they're never entirely clear how many people need to beleive in something before it's manifest as the domiant reality, whether it's a universal or localized reality, why some people seem to be better at "believing" reality into being than others, despite being a clear minority, and so on.
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Oh, so that's advanced physics.

I really will golf better there.
 
MRC_Hans said:
Oh, looked Brilliant Pebbles up now. More nonsense, I'm afraid. The "explanation" is not true physics, just technobabble.

Hans
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I don't read white papers of the manufacturers because they give a flawed explanation that isn't true. They don't know how it works themselves so they make up something that will fool the customers. It's marketing. Just because their explanation is flawed doesn't mean it doesn't work.

When looking at the sealed bottle of stones it's pretty obvious that it does something. You don't need to be a genius to figure that out. But the first thing skeptics do is they open up their limited physics book and look for "evidence". Like I said, they don't have a mind of their own. They are followers of a cult and without a leader they are clueless. Why else are they in this forum?
 
elgarak said:
:dl:As someone who chose physics as a profession, I have never laughed so hard about so much nonsense in my life.

Seriously, are you for real?
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People laugh because it's a way of ignoring a truth they don't want to know.

First they laugh at Noise Harvester because they can't understand it, then after a few decades they plug it in and hear a difference, so they laugh again at their own stupidity.
 
Brilliant Pebbles

K1000.Brilliant.Pebbles.JPG
 
oh ffs.

You can't be serious with the rocks on the head thing, can you?
 
fowlsound said:
oh ffs.

You can't be serious with the rocks on the head thing, can you?
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I'm just showing a picture that I have tried it, otherwise the advanced people would think I'm a troll if I say it doesn't make a difference.

The best way to convert a troll is not by hunting down each and every one, but by entering the cave where the trolls are born. That's why I have come to this forum. The already grown up trolls, it's all over for them. But the young trolls, they aren't completely narrow-minded yet, there's still a little gap in the box where they have hidden themselves into. Do they want to see the light or do they want to put the last nail in the coffin and enter the cult? It's their choice, truth or delusion, whatever makes them happy.
 
speco2007 said:
I dont know how many EEs we have here, I am not one. Paul at PSA is a DJ but claims to be an EE, yet says he has no degree. When I told him that saying your an EE when your not degreed is a slap in the face to those who are and a lie. he resposnded with this

Quote"Since you're not one of them, I suggest you just keep to yourself. If you look up the definition of an electrical engineer it is a person who is skilled at the science and does it for a living. I qualify on both counts.

S: (n) electrical engineer (a person trained in practical applications of the theory of electricity) "

End Quote, so I guess since I read a chemistry book once I am a chemist?
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I have a BS in Electrical Engineering. I don't typically refer to myself as an "Electrical Engineer," though, because it was only my education, not my profession. IMO, you need both the education and on-the-job experience to call yourself an Electrical Engineer.

I do work for a wire and cable manufacturer, though.
 
Here is the latest from the PSA owner.
Here is a very telling quote from one of the power conditioner makers. This is from the guy who runs the company.This in my mind is why the FTC should look into these tools just like they did the diet pills.He fails to see that it was one small control group, fails to see the ethics involved, fails to see potential harm to people who think they have a diet pill inthe physical, mental and money sense.Dont you think he fails to see the same thing in the products he sells?He also is very good at double talk also. He talks of a audio test, then in the next paragraph talks of a double blind. He didnt double blind the first test he used. See how slippery these guys are?He also wants you to suspend real world physics by making a device that you cant measure. Its audio and electronic we can measure it.

His last 2 phrases at the end are very telling of someone who wants to sell you something on the hype alone.Sick.

Quote"I receive some new piece of equipment and I connect it and my system sounds better! I put it in/out and I always like the system better with it. My friends and colleagues try the same thing on their system with the same results.

Problem: it's not doing anything I can measure (and for that matter no one else can either) but I continue to hear the improvement. Does it make my findings any less valid because the measurement people say it's bunk and poke fun at me for being a gullible fool? If it works for me, then it works for me. I can really ask no more.

But apparently that's wrong. One group believes if you can't measure it or if you can't identify the change in a double blind, then it's not valid: despite the fact it is valid for you and your associates.

So let me ask a question to the group. If I take sawdust, put it in a capsule and sell it as a diet pill and half the people taking it lose weight and the other half don't, is it a valid weight loss pill? Let's change the odds, let's say that 70% of the people taking it lose weight. Valid, or not valid?

Now we understand they are losing weight because they believe they will. The doctors inject control groups with sawdust and have zero results. They say it's bunk, yet 70% of the people buying it lose weight.

So, one answer might be that the doctors are looking in the wrong place. Apparently, the mind is powerful enough to trigger certain chemicals in the body to force it to lose weight and this placebo kick starts it and therefore it's a miracle drug. The sawdust itself is doing nothing.

The measurement crowd cries foul and wants to do a double blind test to prove us wrong: they fail because they didn't have all the facts. They are looking in the wrong place or - they don't have the technology to look in the right place - or they don't know where to look. Very common.

If application of a technique causes the majority of users to agree on a common outcome then I would suggest it is valid. Simply because it may not be measurable only means it may not be measurable.

Results is results. "
END QUOTE
 
ExtremeSkeptic said:
[qimg]http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/Patrick82.audiophile.JPG[/qimg]
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I'm going to be sorry I asked, but WTF is that on the bottom right hand corner?

You also said you don't have emotions, why are you smiling in the picture next to the pile of vomit then?

Also - the Star Trek convention called, they want their pointy ears back.
 
Starrman said:
I'm going to be sorry I asked, but WTF is that on the bottom right hand corner?

You also said you don't have emotions, why are you smiling in the picture next to the pile of vomit then?

Also - the Star Trek convention called, they want their pointy ears back.
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I was stretching my face, otherwise it gets stiff.

What vomit? It's my pizza. When tweaking the system you need to eat food...

side.JPG
 
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speco2007 said:
Here is the latest from the PSA owner. [remainder of paragraph snipped]

Quote: "I receive some new piece of equipment and I connect it and my system sounds better! I put it in/out and I always like the system better with it. My friends and colleagues try the same thing on their system with the same results.

Problem: it's not doing anything I can measure (and for that matter no one else can either) but I continue to hear the improvement. Does it make my findings any less valid because the measurement people say it's bunk and poke fun at me for being a gullible fool? If it works for me, then it works for me. I can really ask no more.

But apparently that's wrong. One group believes if you can't measure it or if you can't identify the change in a double blind, then it's not valid: despite the fact it is valid for you and your associates.
Click to expand...

Audiophiles are notorious for not wanting to do double-blind testing.

So let me ask a question to the group. If I take sawdust, put it in a capsule and sell it as a diet pill and half the people taking it lose weight and the other half don't, is it a valid weight loss pill? Let's change the odds, let's say that 70% of the people taking it lose weight. Valid, or not valid?

Now we understand they are losing weight because they believe they will. The doctors inject control groups with sawdust and have zero results. They say it's bunk, yet 70% of the people buying it lose weight.

So, one answer might be that the doctors are looking in the wrong place. Apparently, the mind is powerful enough to trigger certain chemicals in the body to force it to lose weight and this placebo kick starts it and therefore it's a miracle drug. The sawdust itself is doing nothing.

The measurement crowd cries foul and wants to do a double blind test to prove us wrong: they fail because they didn't have all the facts. They are looking in the wrong place or - they don't have the technology to look in the right place - or they don't know where to look. Very common.

If application of a technique causes the majority of users to agree on a common outcome then I would suggest it is valid. Simply because it may not be measurable only means it may not be measurable.

Results is results."
END QUOTE
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Secondly, in the sawdust-filled diet pills example, I'd suspect both the placebo group and the sawdust-pill group would show weight loss. Ergo, a diet pill filled with sawdust is no more effective than a placebo at promoting weight loss.

There's a difference between a result (weight loss) and a conclusion (it wasn't the pills that caused it).
 
About that photo montage.

What is all that stuff wrapped around what appears to be equipment? I'd be concerned about ventilation? Or is cooling a pesky simple physics thing?

Also, where are the speakers? I see headphones but no speakers.
 
ExtremeSkeptic said:
Why not post the link to that forum instead of cherry pick?

"In summary, Speco’s test was ill-conceived both in design and execution. He also exhibited a lack of knowledge of even those most basic electronic components, let alone circuit design."

[URL="http://www.psaudio.com/account/forum/view.asp?catID=1&forumID=1&topicID=4355&pageNo=3"]http://www.psaudio.com/account/forum/view.asp?catID=1&forumID=1&topicID=4355&pageNo=3[/URL]
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Well they are plain old idiots. They didnt know or understand what a FFT unit does or how it works. So of course they didnt like it. I have no lack of know ho in electronics, they sure do though.
 
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