PS Audio Noise Harvester

[Schneibster]

If noise in my AC line can put noise into my audio output shouldn't the effects of the noise be measurable at the output of my amplifier's power supply?

Well, I am an EE, and this is an excellent question, and the answer is, "Yes, it should. And the fact that it does not is proof of the quality of the design of the power supply of your amplifier."

 

[ExtremeSkeptic]

You never did explain how it is that our inadequate understanding of physics allows us to build the extremely complex device known as a PC.

I'll tell you what. You correctly explain how a class D amplifier works (in your own words and without referring to books or online sources) and we'll continue discussing your concepts of audio and electronics. I'll even accept a factual description of why you don't like class D amplifiers, provided you can discuss it in terms of the electronics rather than some nebulous flowery terms.

Heck, tell me why Class C amplifiers aren't good for audio and we can go on talking.

It's like when someone invents a game with his own rules, then he goes out bragging to others that nobody else than himself knows those rules. It's the same thing with primitive physics books, why would I want to learn flawed knowledge? I start from the top, I start with the truth, I'm not interested in learning things that aren't accurate. I'm only interested about the root and not the branch. How are you going to find the root if you start with a branch and think you already know everything? It's a dream world hard to get out of. Engineers are more delusional than audiophiles and they know it but they can't admit it because then all those years would have gone to waste.

 

[MortFurd]

If you think that bulding a PC or other stuff is advanced physics I can't help you. Soldering components into PCB is made for little kids in school. What I'm talking about is much more advanced than you can ever imagine. You need to know more than Quantum physics for audio.

Tell ya what, sport. Consider the task of actually building the microprocessor in your PC. How many hundred millions of transistors packed into a space less than 1 square inch? How many GigaHerz is the clock speed?

Consider the physics involved in all of that and tell me it is simple. Take a look at the motherboard sometime, and tell me why traces that could go in a straight line from point A to point B are squiggled instead. There's a good reason for it, an engineering decision based on the physics of the situation. Figure it out, if you can.

Soldering is easy. Try it. Now design a reflow solder machine that solder hundreds of connection on the CPU socket automatically. I'll give you a hint: It isn't done by individually soldering each pin. Physics lends a tremendous hand here, too - as well as chemistry.

How does your harddrive work? What lets the read/write heads float at 3 nanometers from the platter surface without crashing? Physics tells you, if you know how to use it.

How is data stored on your USB stick? Physics will help you understand - if you take the time to learn it.


Your ignorance is staggering. You use the products of a technology you do not understand. You attempt to modify those products with other products you don't understand, and you call the creators of all those things fools.

 

[MortFurd]

It's like when someone invents a game with his own rules, then he goes out bragging to others that nobody else than himself knows those rules. It's the same thing with primitive physics books, why would I want to learn flawed knowledge? I start from the top, I start with the truth, I'm not interested in learning things that aren't accurate. I'm only interested about the root and not the branch. How are you going to find the root if you start with a branch and think you already know everything? It's a dream world hard to get out of. Engineers are more delusional than audiophiles and they know it but they can't admit it because then all those years would have gone to waste.

I am asking you questions about the technology you pretend to improve with your toys. You don't understand the technology, so anything you do is just shooting in the dark.

ETA:
Those questions I asked are perfectly simple ones that anyone who works on amplifiers should understand. There's a world full of electrical engineers, radio technicians, ham radio operators and other folks to whom those questions are perfectly rational and which have clear answers. They are not questions I've invented in some secret code just to confound you.

 

[ExtremeSkeptic]

Tell ya what, sport. Consider the task of actually building the microprocessor in your PC. How many hundred millions of transistors packed into a space less than 1 square inch? How many GigaHerz is the clock speed?

Consider the physics involved in all of that and tell me it is simple. Take a look at the motherboard sometime, and tell me why traces that could go in a straight line from point A to point B are squiggled instead. There's a good reason for it, an engineering decision based on the physics of the situation. Figure it out, if you can.

Soldering is easy. Try it. Now design a reflow solder machine that solder hundreds of connection on the CPU socket automatically. I'll give you a hint: It isn't done by individually soldering each pin. Physics lends a tremendous hand here, too - as well as chemistry.

How does your harddrive work? What lets the read/write heads float at 3 nanometers from the platter surface without crashing? Physics tells you, if you know how to use it.

How is data stored on your USB stick? Physics will help you understand - if you take the time to learn it.

Like I said, it isn't advanced physics. Anyone can learn the rules of simple physics. Just like anyone can learn a different language. It doesn't mean anything unless the one who learned it thinks it does. Then he goes on and on with his bragging...
It's like someone from another country starts talking to you in his own language, then he laughs and says "Hahaha you are ignorant you don't know my language." Then he keeps talking longer and longer. It's the same with engineers, they keep on going until they have depleted their limited knowledge... If something can be depleted it isn't accurate knowledge. It's like they are digging their own grave and when they reach the bottom they realize the truth.

 

[MortFurd]

"Rules of simple physics."

Tell ya what. Learn some "Rules of simple physics." Then come back here and tell me how you will apply those rules to build that oh so simple microprocessor.

I'm done talking to you. You know nothing, will learn nothing, but will believe anything.

 

[MortFurd]

Well, I am an EE, and this is an excellent question, and the answer is, "Yes, it should. And the fact that it does not is proof of the quality of the design of the power supply of your amplifier."

Good question, good answer. Unacceptable to woos.

 

[ExtremeSkeptic]

Your ignorance is staggering. You use the products of a technology you do not understand. You attempt to modify those products with other products you don't understand, and you call the creators of all those things fools.

I am asking you questions about the technology you pretend to improve with your toys. You don't understand the technology, so anything you do is just shooting in the dark.

It's pretty obvious that less external interference leads to better sound. Everything matters, vibration, AC noise, EMI, soundwaves, gravity etc. You don't need to be a genius to figure that out. You need to keep the audio system clean from interference to get the highest resolution. Even people who have no knowledge of physics knows that.

But since it isn't a written code in the engineers' physics books they just ignore it. They are in a very dark place and the only light they see is from their little scope. They go deeper and deeper into the dark dream world.

 

[ExtremeSkeptic]

"Rules of simple physics."

Tell ya what. Learn some "Rules of simple physics." Then come back here and tell me how you will apply those rules to build that oh so simple microprocessor.

I'm done talking to you. You know nothing, will learn nothing, but will believe anything.

Why would I want to build a primitive device like a microprocessor? Like I said, I start from the top. I will build a proper device from the beginning instead of something flawed. I don't need to come back to tell someone either, because it doesn't matter. The only time something matters is if you think you know something (while you don't), and then you feel the urge of telling everyone about it. But it will still be flawed knowledge. True knowledge is something nobody will ever know about because if it is shared it isn't true knowledge in the first place. Everyone need to figure it out by themselves...

 

[speco2007]

Folks please lets not waste time on Extreme Skeptic. He has been shown the truth many times in the AVS forum and still doesnt get it. Lets instead focus on the BS at PSAudio.

 

[ExtremeSkeptic]

Folks please lets not waste time on Extreme Skeptic. He has been shown the truth many times in the AVS forum and still doesnt get it. Lets instead focus on the BS at PSAudio.

It's the opposite. I have shown skeptics the truth but they still don't get it because all they see is numbers and scopes. They are good at ignoring the truth to make them feel better about themselves. They don't like to waste their time on truth.

The only way you can enjoy something is when you don't know the complete truth. But since I can't enjoy something anyway I don't care what the truth is.

 

[osmosis]

Everything is physics, just not the simple physics people learn in school. If you think they teach it right, then there's a problem. Nobody knows the true physics, only the simple incomplete one. Once someone starts the engineering school it's all over for him, you can't get him back to reality. He keeps going deeper and deeper into his dream world with his simple physics books and he thinks it is the truth. When he sees something he doesn't understand he gets sad so he needs to direct his anger somewhere else than himself because he wants to be proud of himself. So he directs his anger to the people who made the device which he can't know how it works based on his simple physics books. Then the only way to make him feel better about himself is to call it a scam, it's the only way out.

I gotta get me some of whatever you've been smokin'.

Goo goo g'joob!

 

[jimlintott]

Why would I want to build a primitive device like a microprocessor?

Hopefully I'm not the only one who is curious about this.

If a square inch of silicon containing several hundred thousand transistors is primitive what kind of device is advanced?

 

[TonyL]

Hopefully I'm not the only one who is curious about this.

If a square inch of silicon containing several hundred thousand transistors is primitive what kind of device is advanced?

A vacuum tube?

 

[speco2007]

I dont know how many EEs we have here, I am not one. Paul at PSA is a DJ but claims to be an EE, yet says he has no degree. When I told him that saying your an EE when your not degreed is a slap in the face to those who are and a lie. he resposnded with this

Quote"Since you're not one of them, I suggest you just keep to yourself. If you look up the definition of an electrical engineer it is a person who is skilled at the science and does it for a living. I qualify on both counts.

S: electrical engineer (a person trained in practical applications of the theory of electricity) "

End Quote, so I guess since I read a chemistry book once I am a chemist?

 

[ExtremeSkeptic]

A vacuum tube?

After I fixed the problems in my system with tweaks I didn't need to use tubes anymore to cover up the brightness which hurt my ears. I use all the brightest components in my system and after tweaking it now sounds warmer than tubes ever sounded. True resolution gives smoothness and warmth, it's pretty obvious.

 

[osmosis]

Like I said, it isn't advanced physics. Anyone can learn the rules of simple physics.

Are you saying you simply haven't bothered to learn basic physics? At least that explains why you know absolutely NOTHING about it. What isn't adequately explained is where you get the nerve to imply that it's not worth learning.

Oh, right, because you much prefer "advanced physics". I mean, who wouldn't..

Perhaps your knowledge of "advanced physics" can explain why I am skeptical of the notion that you know anything at all about anything.

 

[ExtremeSkeptic]

Are you saying you simply haven't bothered to learn basic physics? At least that explains why you know absolutely NOTHING about it. What isn't adequately explained is where you get the nerve to imply that it's not worth learning.

Oh, right, because you much prefer "advanced physics". I mean, who wouldn't..

Perhaps your knowledge of "advanced physics" can explain why I am skeptical of the notion that you know anything at all about anything.

When I was a kid I learned basic physics in couple of days because I needed it for another sport that I practiced professionally, but a few years later I realized I didn't really need it to win.

Having knowledge of physics isn't needed if you tweak the audio system, it's just counter-productive. In audio, little knowledge is worse than none at all.


Audio is a sport to me where I practice the whole day and write what I hear into my logs. I write many megabytes per year.
I hear many variables, even ambient temperature makes a huge difference. I need to keep the headphone drivers at a certain temperature and softness to get the highest resolution, I'm using 46dB volume overnight to keep the drivers warmed up, but I still need to listen 6 hours a day at 60dB to keep it consistent. If I only listen 2 hours I need to leave it running at 50dB overnight etc. And if the ambient temperature changes, I need to compensate for that as well. It gets more complicated since the temperature has a delayed effect and affects the components differently.
I don't do it by looking at the numbers because I don't know all the variables yet. I listen to my audio system to hear what it needs, just like in athletic sports where you need to listen to your body to prevent overtraining and injuries etc. If the body is hungry you need to insert food instead of type on calculator...

When keeping the audio system warmed up, if I use too loud volume for the drivers then it sounds too warm and bassy on the next day. If I use too low volume, then it sounds edgy and muddy with lack of low-level detail.
I always use 60dB volume when I listen to music, and I have tweaked my system to match that volume.

The amount of time a component has been turned on matters also, the problem is the optimal time for each component is different, and whenever you unplug the AC connector it needs to burn-in again. Since I need to get the correct combination I only have a 10 hour window once a week where my system sounds the best.

I'm still a beginner at this audiophile sport, but my results are still consistent.

 

[MortFurd]

Why would I want to build a primitive device like a microprocessor?
Snip...

Damn, guys. We've all studied the wrong stuff. ExtremeSkeptic's "Advanced Physics" (pat. pend.) makes modern microprocessors look primitive and simple.

Actually, I don't want any of whatever he's been smoking. It seems to lead to severe brain damage.

 

[pchams]

When I was a kid I learned basic physics in couple of days because I needed it for another sport that I practiced professionally, but a few years later I realized I didn't really need it to win.

Having knowledge of physics isn't needed if you tweak the audio system, it's just counter-productive. In audio, little knowledge is worse than none at all.


Audio is a sport to me where I practice the whole day and write what I hear into my logs. I write many megabytes per year.
I hear many variables, even ambient temperature makes a huge difference. I need to keep the headphone drivers at a certain temperature and softness to get the highest resolution, I'm using 46dB volume overnight to keep the drivers warmed up, but I still need to listen 6 hours a day at 60dB to keep it consistent. If I only listen 2 hours I need to leave it running at 50dB overnight etc. And if the ambient temperature changes, I need to compensate for that as well. It gets more complicated since the temperature has a delayed effect and affects the components differently.
I don't do it by looking at the numbers because I don't know all the variables yet. I listen to my audio system to hear what it needs, just like in athletic sports where you need to listen to your body to prevent overtraining and injuries etc. If the body is hungry you need to insert food instead of type on calculator...

When keeping the audio system warmed up, if I use too loud volume for the drivers then it sounds too warm and bassy on the next day. If I use too low volume, then it sounds edgy and muddy with lack of low-level detail.
I always use 60dB volume when I listen to music, and I have tweaked my system to match that volume.

The amount of time a component has been turned on matters also, the problem is the optimal time for each component is different, and whenever you unplug the AC connector it needs to burn-in again. Since I need to get the correct combination I only have a 10 hour window once a week where my system sounds the best.

I'm still a beginner at this audiophile sport, but my results are still consistent.

Headphones!

Are you the same duck who bypassed the fuse on his amp because it sounded "so much cleaner"?
More sizzle and shine in the highs....a deeper more refined bottom...
Audiophools make me laugh.