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BBC and WTC 7 on 9/11: confusion or NWO-blunder?

Arkan_Wolfshade said:
False dilemma
This fallacy typically involves asking a question and providing only two possible answers when there are actually far more.

Go back to playing with your Barbies Ace.
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What about the false choice fallacy your fellow OCTers used earlier?

"Either the firefighters know nothing OR they are complicit in the murder of 3000 people."
 
Aphelion said:
What about the false choice fallacy your fellow OCTers used earlier?

"Either the firefighters know nothing OR they are complicit in the murder of 3000 people."
Click to expand...

What other possible answers would fit in between, Aphelion?
 
Aphelion said:
Your analogies are not correct. This wasn't an error. They reported a true event but they reported it before it happened.
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Could the BBC have received a report that experts on the scene were reporting the building was in imminent danger of collapsing and mistook the report as saying it had already collapsed?

Or are you totally married to this conspiracy thing?
 
Aphelion said:
How did they manage to report it just 20 minutes before the collapse? Why not 2 hours before if it had been expected for hours?
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How do we know? Maybe they thought WTC7 wasn't important in the scheme of things but decided to report it when they had a lull? Who knows? Why do you find such mundane things so suspicious?

If what you say is true, the BBC had foreknowledge of the 'demolition'. What implications does that have? Does it make more sense than a simple mistake?
 
HyJinX said:
So what you're saying is that the firefighters (or at least some) were well aware of the CD?
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No, i'm saying that skeptics use extreme false choice fallacies then accuse truthers of doing it in the same thread.
 
I know, I should read the whole thread, but has this been covered, or do Alex Jones and Paul Watson admit that the exact time of the clip cannot be determined since there was no time stamp on it?

Could the time of the report be wrong?
 
Aphelion said:
How did they manage to report it just 20 minutes before the collapse? Why not 2 hours before if it had been expected for hours?
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:eye-poppi

I was not aware that there are protocols for reporting errors!

All the afternoon (NY time) there was talk that the Salomon Building might collapse. I, in Belgium, knew it, although I had never heard of the building, had no idea where exactly it was located, nor how it looked like. Exactly like Jane Standley. :)

So at some moment they get a false report of the collapse and broadcast it.
Had WTC 7 not collapsed (or collapsed much later) they would have retracted the report.

Really much ado about nothing. It shows the desperation of the "Truth Movement" that they make so much of this.
 
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Aphelion said:
Well noone died in 7, so being complicit in its demolition would not be complicity in murder.
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Are you saying that you believe your WTC7 conspiracy happened in a vacuum, and everything else that day happened as advertised?

I'm not paying attention obviously. Now I'm not sure what your position is again.
 
twinstead said:
I know, I should read the whole thread, but has this been covered, or do Alex Jones and Paul Watson admit that the exact time of the clip cannot be determined since there was no time stamp on it?

Could the time of the report be wrong?
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At some moment the anchor says "some eight hours after the attacks". Also, the original file is named
http://ia311517.us.archive.org/2/items/bbc200109111654-1736/V08591-16.mpg.
My educated guess is that the time is right.
 
Aphelion said:
No, i'm saying that skeptics use extreme false choice fallacies then accuse truthers of doing it in the same thread.
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Ok...well given your particular scenario...let me run down the logic of why you're wrong.

If any of the fireman had knowledge or helped with the CD of WTC7 and have deliberately kept quiet due to coercion, intimidation or fear...knowing that the knowledge they held could and would create a dire need for in-depth investigation that (in many minds of the average CT) would lead to even more evidence that 9/11 was inside perpetrated by factions within the US government...then YES...they are directly complicit in the murder of 3000 victims.
 
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twinstead said:
Are you saying that you believe your WTC7 conspiracy happened in a vacuum, and everything else that day happened as advertised?

I'm not paying attention obviously. Now I'm not sure what your position is again.
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Im not taking a definitive position. I was pointing out that what had been said was a false choice fallacy.
 
Aphelion said:
What about the false choice fallacy your fellow OCTers used earlier?

"Either the firefighters know nothing OR they are complicit in the murder of 3000 people."
Click to expand...

Well, you're rewording it a bit to make it more extreme, but it's still not a false dilemma- go ahead, try and find another explanation.

Mind control?

Aliens? Was it pod people?

How about androids?

Not really viable alternatives- at least in the world of the rational.
 
Aphelion said:
Im not taking a definitive position. I was pointing out that what had been said was a false choice fallacy.
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That is a position... and what you said was wrong, furthermore- it does not excuse your error (which is what you seem to be attempting to do).
 
Aphelion said:
What about the false choice fallacy your fellow OCTers used earlier?

"Either the firefighters know nothing OR they are complicit in the murder of 3000 people."
Click to expand...
Ace said
1. The BBC news people are psychic, and deserving of the JREF million dollar prize.

2. They were fed a press release from "official sources" that said that the Sololman bros. building had collapsed because of structural damage and fire.
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This leaves out such possibilties as:
* The report was erroneous
* The reporter mistakenly said, "collapsed," instead of something like, "in danger of collapsing."
etc
This makes it a false choice fallacy.

Additionally, Ace provides no substantiating evidence to support his #2 option.

This differs from the situation with the firefighters. In that, either the firefighters did not know anything, or they knew something. If they knew something then they were part of the "conspiracy". This is not a false choice fallacy as there is no excluded middle ground. If you feel there is an excluded middle ground, or an unenumerated possibility, please specify it.
 
Aphelion said:
Im not taking a definitive position. I was pointing out that what had been said was a false choice fallacy.
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Oh, I thought you said you were totally sure WTC7 was a CD now. I really hope this new 'smoking gun' evidence wasn't what put you over the edge ;).

Seriously though, in order for the firemen issue to be a false dilemma, there would have to be more choices other than they were reporting what they saw, and they were in on it.

I guess the only other choice I can come up with is that they were incompetent and didn't know how to tell if a building was going to do bad things soon. I guess that makes you right, there are more than 2.
 
My 2 choices were meant to be sarcastic. I don't really believe there are psychics, for example. Sorry, I was just laughing too hard for too long last night. I was giddy. I've calmed down. Offer up any choices you wish. In my opinion, the BBC were fed a press release that said the Salomon Bros. buliding had collapsed.

I think it's clear that many people knew WTC7 was coming down. OCTs want to spin it as "experts said it was likely to collapse". I find that ridiculous. A much more likely explanation is that people knew it was rigged for demolition and was going to be pulled.

Why weren't there any stories circulating about Banker's Trust buliding? That had a monsterous gash in it. WFC3 had damage too.
 
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