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Scrap steel from WTC disaster

MG1962

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MG1962
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Interesting one of the great corner stones of the CT movement is the understanding that the recovered steel from ground zero was raced off to China, never to seen again

As always, it appears this information is not entirely true

http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/ussnewyork.asp

Steel was also sent to India, Pakistan, South Korea, Thaliand, Singapore. In fact only about 30,000 tons of the recovered 360,000 tons of steel found its way the China
 
Didn't know that. As usual, the truthers are wrong.

Though, I think their main argument about steel being shipped to china is not so much that it was shipped to china, but that it was removed in the first place. Though, there's plenty of reasons for that.
 
MG1962 said:
Interesting one of the great corner stones of the CT movement is the understanding that the recovered steel from ground zero was raced off to China, never to seen again

As always, it appears this information is not entirely true

http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/ussnewyork.asp

Steel was also sent to India, Pakistan, South Korea, Thaliand, Singapore. In fact only about 30,000 tons of the recovered 360,000 tons of steel found its way the China
Click to expand...

I had seen a photo recently- possibly on a Jones-related article- which purportedly shows the steel being cut up for the USS New York. I've never seen the original photo, however, and it has nothing specific on it that would cause me to agree with the assertion (not that I disagree that the steel was used to make the ship).

I always like to point to the work of Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, a professor of structural engineering at the University of California at Berkeley- and many others who inspected the rubble pile and the steel at the Fresh Kills landfill. Professor Astaneh-Asl- in fact- was one of the first to start inspecting the steel and "he visually inspected about 40,000 tons of steel from the towers from September to December". In addition to the work done by NIST, NSF, SEAoNY, MCEER, and others- the claim that the steel was "whisked away" is nonsense.

(And since all these scientists did not find a single piece of evidence of a CD, the claim is rejected outright- even beyond the ridiculousness of such an event taking place)
 
Well in the recent BBC doco they showed a warehouse or something that seemed to have enough steel sitting in it to satisfy any re-examination
 
The debris from the WTC was disposed of after it had been sorted by those investigating the events.

I'm not entirely sure what else the CTers think they should have done with it. You can't just store 360,000 tons of steel in a shed somewhere.

-Gumboot
 
gumboot said:
I'm not entirely sure what else the CTers think they should have done with it. You can't just store 360,000 tons of steel in a shed somewhere.
Click to expand...
And if (somehow) they had left most of the steel around, this would (somehow) be taken as proof of a conspiracy.
 
PerryLogan said:
And if (somehow) they had left most of the steel around, this would (somehow) be taken as proof of a conspiracy.
Click to expand...

Dylan Avery voiceover:

"All 360,000 tons of steel are kept here in this bunker guarded by government employees. To date not one single piece of World Trade Center steel has been released for recycling. But we're told the 'investigation' is over. Why are they keeping it? What don't they want independent steel workers to see?"
 
Offchops;

NK-44's work seems decently thorough, though his sources at times seem Woo, but I am not really clear on the point he is making. If he is trying to say that the USG purposely refused access to what was needed to investigate the crime, to those who needed said access, He doesnt make that point to me.

In the end, once again, it comes down to who you trust, and who you believe.

Personally I believe NIST, when they said they had access to enough steel and enough of the debris to properly investigate. Beyond that I do not care what they did with the steel.

TAM:)
 
I'm sure the engineers would have liked to have access to more of the steel, particularly from building 7. But there's no evidence of malfeasance involved in the steel's removal, beyond the isolated theft described above, and that steel was recovered.

There simply was no system in place to deal with such a disaster. Many of the decisions were made quickly by people in the city's Department of Design and Construction, not because they had experience with such disasters, but because they were the first to set up an office and begin marshaling the heavy equipment. They became the de facto leaders of the removal operations.

In the first weeks the city was concerned with reaching what was believed to be over 6,000 people who were caught in the collapses. In early October that number was still believed to be as high as 4,500-5,000. Early on, the engineers and the city didn't discuss what was to become of the steel. They were concerned with the safety and stability of the site and surrounding buildings.

This excerpt from a New York Times article describes the early confusion about the disposition of the steel.

Engineers Seek to Test Steel Before It Is Melted for Reuse

By James Glanz and Kenneth Chang Published: September 29, 2001

The huge steel columns and beams of the World Trade Center are being hauled off to be melted and recycled before engineers can inspect the twisted metal, which they say could hold important clues on how to build safer skyscrapers in the future.

The city has signed a contract that allows two New Jersey firms to recycle the estimated 310,000 tons of steel from the trade center site, including some 90,000 tons from each tower.

Kenneth Holden, commissioner of the department of design and construction, said the deal would help to recoup at least a tiny part of the original value of the towers and to dispose of the wreckage in an environmentally responsible way. He could not provide an estimate for the value of the steel. Ultimately the money would probably go to the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owned the buildings.

But some engineers, including a team assembled by the American Society of Civil Engineers, say that examination of the steel could allow them to piece together the precise chain of events that led to the collapse of the buildings.

''If we don't collect the unbelievably valuable data, it will be a second tragedy,'' said Dr. Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, professor of structural engineering at the University of California at Berkeley and a member of the engineering society's team. Dr. Astaneh-Asl is also the recipient of one of eight grants awarded yesterday by the National Science Foundation to investigate the disaster.

Commissioner Holden said that while agents from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the office of the city medical examiner did inspect the steel for crime scene clues and human remains, no engineering examinations were taking place.

Mr. Holden said that while he would probably not object to allowing engineers to perform such examinations, his first priority was clearing the site so that human remains might be recovered.

''Our focus right now is moving steel out to see if we can find bodies alive or dead,'' Mr. Holden said.

Some of the steel is already being cut up for recycling at the two firms that were awarded contracts: Hugo Neu Schnitzer East in Jersey City and Metal Management of Newark.

''We thought they were going to be held for at least a while until we could get to them,'' said Dr. W. Gene Corley, senior vice president of Construction Technologies Laboratories in Skokie, Ill., and the leader of a 12-member team from the civil engineering society that would like to study the wreckage. ''If they're recycling all of it, that would make it more difficult.''

Dr. Corley said it was most important to set aside the parts of buildings that were near the spots where the airplanes slammed into them. How the girders bent could tell the engineers which part of the buildings failed first. Microscopic analysis of the steel could tell them how hot the fires burned. Taken together, such information could yield insights on how to construct buildings that are more resistant to attack.

''These failures occurred very quickly, and some of the evidence for this is contained in those columns and beams,'' said Dr. Richard J. Fragaszy, program director in civil and mechanical systems at the National Science Foundation.

The two recycling firms said that they would be willing to accommodate the inspections if they could be done quickly, but that they were not aware of the project.

''If they want representative samples, I think that's fine,'' said Bob Kelman, senior vice president and general manager of Hugo Neu Schnitzer. ''We'd be happy to assist.''
Click to expand...
Emphasis mine.
 
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Here's what confuses me. Twoofers say all of it was shipped overseas before any tests could be done, but tests were done... just not on every little bit, right? Does this mean that possibly the gubmint shipped off all the bad steel and just tested the good stuff?

It's rationale like this that makes my brain cramp.
 
But according to Judy Wood all that steel was "dustified"... There was no steel left!
 
Banghead.gif
 
But...but...they shoulda kept all those pieces and reconstructed all three of those buildings in a airplane hanger somewhere! I mean, that's how you investigate a crime, right?

[/woo]
 
Most of the "truthers" objections to the steel being recycled seems to be that there was something sinister in the act of recycling it. It appears that there was great deal of bureaucratic role confusion after the attacks. In fact, critics of the Dept of Homeland Security still contend that, in the event of another similar attack, the roles of each entity (FEMA, NIST, FBI, etc) is relatively unclear.

The fact that a full department dedicated to reacting and responding to terrorist attacks hasn't yet got its act together flies straight in the face of what conspiracists would have us believe. Either that, or the 12-foot invisible lizards purposely created the DHS to facilitate future successful attacks.
 
The pictures are huge, and they're enough to make you think a conspiracy, but that's only if you believe in conspiracies...
 
Call me a shill, disinfo agent, but I think on this point, I am like most average sane people.

When something horrible is done to you by someone, or a group, or whatever, wouldnt one of the ways you show your resillience, your lack of fear, be to pick up an move on. To fix what was "broken" and move on as quickly as possible.

Seems to me the logical thing to do would be to clean up that horrible mess, with all the bad memories and horror it brought, as quickly as possible, so americans, in particular, Newyorkers, could move on, and get on with their day to day lives, and minimize the psychological impact of the devistation.

In keeping with this, would it not be in the interest of the EVIL CABAL to keep the pile of debris at GZ there as long as possible to act as a constant reminder to their slaves/citizens of the horror, and hence maintain the FEAR that the truthers say is paramount to how the CABAL maintains control.

some thoughts.

TAM:)
 
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