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Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

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LAL said:
I don't think they are.

Cougars tend to avoid conflict, even as well-armed as they are. Animals that range singly tend to avoid situations where injury could occur. Without a group to carry them, an injury that merely reduces and ability to hunt or forage can be fatal.

Aside from reports, there's inconclusive footage that appears to show a male rocking back and forth in agitation. That's pretty typical ape behavior.
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This inconclusive blobby footage sort of kind of,if you look at it the right way,with one eye closed,through a mirror over your shoulder appears to show something rocking back and forth...and seeings how apes do this from time to time...than it might be Bigfeetsus!!

::::SIGH::::::
 
IOW, you haven't seen the footage. I'm not surprised. I don't think it's on YouTube.
 
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From Wikipedia:

"Cryptozoology is the search for animals that are rumored to exist, but for which conclusive proof is missing. This includes the search for living examples of animals that are known to have existed at one time, but are widely considered to be extinct today. Those who study or search for such animals are called cryptozoologists, while the hypothetical creatures involved are referred to by some as "cryptids", a term coined by John Wall in 1983.
Invention of the term cryptozoology (adding the Greek prefix kryptós, or "hidden", to zoology to mean "the study of hidden animals") is often attributed to zoologist Bernard Heuvelmans. However, Heuvelmans himself (in his book In the Wake of Sea Serpents) attributes coinage of the term to the late Scottish explorer and adventurer Ivan T. Sanderson. Heuvelmans' 1955 book, On the Track of Unknown Animals, traces the scholarly origins of the discipline to Anthonid Cornelis Oudemans and his 1892 study, The Great Sea Serpent. Loren Coleman, the modern popularizer of cryptozoology, has chronicled the history and personalities of the science in his books.

Another notable book was Willy Ley's Exotic Zoology (1959). Ley was best known for his books on rocketry and related topics, but he also wrote a number of books about animals. Exotic Zoology (which combined some of Ley's older writings with new ones) is of some interest to cryptozoology, as he discusses the Yeti and sea serpents, as well as reports of relict dinosaurs. The book's first section ("Myth?") entertains the possibility that some legendary creatures (like the sirrush, the unicorn or the cyclops) might be based on actual animals (or misinterpretation of animals and/or their remains).

Heuvelmans argued that cryptozoology should be undertaken with scientific rigor, but also with an open-minded, interdisciplinary approach. He also stressed that attention should be given to local and folkloric sources regarding such creatures. While often layered in unlikely and fantastic elements, folktales may indeed contain grains of truth and important information regarding these animals.

Some cryptozoologists align themselves with a more scientifically rigorous field like zoology, while others tend toward an anthropological slant or even a Fortean perspective. Cryptozoology is often considered a pseudoscience by skeptical mainstream zoologists and biologists."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptozoology

I don't consider "Bigfootery" to be a subculture or a cult. We're far too disorganized for that.
 
LAL said:
IOW, you haven't seen the footage. I'm not surprised. I don't think it's on YouTube.
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Lu, you yourself said it was inconclusive...it's been a long long time somewhere around 50 or so years..."Inconclusive" don't cut it anymore...in fact it's useless...so your reference to yet another "inconclusive" piece of Bigfeetsus Cinema...is therefore irrelevant.

"Inconclusive" is nice...you know when you are getting the old ball rolling on your little mystery....but after so much time has passed and that's all you still have...than it's no longer nice.... it's sad.
 
LAL said:
Possibly. Not as much work has been done on Orangutan intelligence, but they may be on a par with Chimpanzees. Neither are stupid.
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Yet both can claim nowhere near the same reported range of sasquatch and have allowed themselves to human habituation. I see no reason why this should not be the same with sasquatch. Humans have brought great damage and harm to chimpanzees and orangutans and their habitat and still this hasn't prevented habituation. Unless...
LAL said:
I don't think there's any reason to invoke superior intelligence as an explanation for why sasquatches have managed to elude us so far, particulary since mainstream science seems to see no reason to look for them.

Mainstream science rejected DuBois, Dart and the platypus but once embraced Piltdown Man. Good thing we know better now.
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Next question:
What is the reason they've managed to elude identification across the continent over the last say, 150 years, in your opinion?
You called her dishonest. That was uncalled for, IMO.
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On the matter to which I was referring I think I've shown that to be the case. I find it very curious that thus far she's made no attempt to show that it wasn't. All she needs to do is provide evidence that kushtaka and kooshdakhaa are not both renderings of kû'cta-qa as I have shown and separate characters with separate stories as she has claimed. For the record, I'm not saying she is a generally dishonest person (indeed, she generally seems quite pleasant), just that she got caught with her pants down on a matter that she was speaking with authority and attempted to cover for it.

Again, why has she not done this? I'm guessing it will be said that she's to busy. I would believe that given the leaky roof but that hasn't stopped her before. I'm in for some major apologizing if she does.
 
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LAL said:
I don't think they are.

Cougars tend to avoid conflict, even as well-armed as they are. Animals that range singly tend to avoid situations where injury could occur. Without a group to carry them, an injury that merely reduces and ability to hunt or forage can be fatal.

Aside from reports, there's inconclusive footage that appears to show a male rocking back and forth in agitation. That's pretty typical ape behavior.
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How do you know those things about cougars?

In any event, in my hometown of Victoria, BC one fine summer morning I was walking along Beach Drive with a friend when we were confronted by a large group of police officers who told us we could not proceed through the area as about 50 meters in front of us a large male cougar had been cornered in a a thicket. Since they were unwilling to use dogs they resorted to using a helicopter(!) to coax the beast out in the open to get a shot at it. They explained to us that at least a few times a year they have to deal with cougars that make there way into the city from up the coast and wind up even in Beacon Hill Park, a major tourist attraction 10 minutes walk from the downtown core!

I'm sure someone is going to give me an eastern cougar reference now but I'm at a loss for the lack of sasquatch one involving a young, nutty, confused male (you know, like Sweaty).
 
LAL said:
Woe unto thee, O ye dabbler in abominations, for you will be thrown into a den of hyperactive lions!
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If I'm lucky, they are too hyperactive to focus on killing me.

In the post I saw he merely said most of the people on the board are idiots. I was skimming and may have missed where he singled you out, but you got my vote for most insulting poster on the board long before Huntster ever joined.
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No Lu, wrong again. He called me an idiot right before I called him a deletable word. Your lack of attention to detail and context is worn on your sleeve. You do it with the testimony of Patterson & Gimlin and the known facts surrounding the PGF. When it is pointed out to you, you claim "I musta missed that." But then a month will go by, and you are right back to actively avoiding what you learned in this forum. You are an intellectually dishonest obfuscator who believes strongly in the existence of Bigfoot. You brought your dog & pony show to JREF. We can see right through you.

Can we get back to the issues, or is that too much to hope for?
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Why ask for something that you don't even do? There must be hundreds of postings in the Bigfoot threads where skeptics point out your obfuscation and squirming. Maybe some people have no other choice but to obfuscate when faced with able BF skeptics in their house. When it gets really bad, you throw a posting block on someone; like putting both hands over your ears and repeating "Lal, lal, lal, lal..."

I guess we could start with the issue that caused Huntster to call me an idiot. I thought it was inexplicable that Laverty did not take (or we do not see) photos of the PGF trackway instead of only close-ups of single footprints. Huntster offered that it might be because Laverty would have needed special photography equipment which he didn't have. When I said that was a crazy idea and the only thing Laverty would have had to do was point the camera he was already using in a different direction - he pointed out that that wouldn't even matter because I would only look at such a (trackway) photo and declare the tracks to be faked. At that moment, Huntster became Baby Dangling.
 
LAL said:
Me too. Thank you for saying that.

I was reading this thread when it happened and only saw him respond to an insult that has been deleted. He did not, from what I saw, initiate the exchange. The insulter hasn't been banned, has he?

I hope you would put in a word for him. I had no stomach for posting for the rest of the day.
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As far as I have ascertained, Huntster's eventual banning was not the sole result of conduct restricted to this thread. And that's the end of anything I have to say in-thread on the matter.
 
LAL said:
I don't think there's any reason to invoke superior intelligence as an explanation for why sasquatches have managed to elude us so far, particulary since mainstream science seems to see no reason to look for them.
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If you don't invoke superior intelligence then you have to invoke superior luck (if non-confirmation is some kind of "goal"). But it's much more than an ability to avoid detection. They seem to have some property or skill that prevents humans from acquiring their DNA in any form. Maybe they don't even have double helix nucleic acids.

There are two issues in question.

1) Specific behaviors attributed to Bigfoots.
2) A general ability to avoid confirmation that includes all Bigfoots all the time, everywhere. In a spacio-temporal analysis - they are both everywhere and nowhere.

Mainsteam science has no good reason to look for Bigfoots because mainstream science is smarter than you are.

Mainstream science rejected DuBois, Dart and the platypus but once embraced Piltdown Man. Good thing we know better now.:)
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Yep, and that's why people other than Bigfooters don't go out looking for Bigfoot - let alone using public funds to do it.
 
Mad Hom said:
Lu, you yourself said it was inconclusive...it's been a long long time somewhere around 50 or so years..."Inconclusive" don't cut it anymore...in fact it's useless...so your reference to yet another "inconclusive" piece of Bigfeetsus Cinema...is therefore irrelevant.

"Inconclusive" is nice...you know when you are getting the old ball rolling on your little mystery....but after so much time has passed and that's all you still have...than it's no longer nice.... it's sad.
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It's all inconclusive; I've been criticized for not throwing in enough "maybes" so I thought I'd throw in a long word. It's been questioned because an error in measurement was made in the reenactment.

Fifty years? Whatever are you talking about? Fifty years since the Crew prints or what?

The footage I'm referring to is from October 2004.
 
About those Victoria and other mountain lions: Let's be fair. Mr. Mountain Lion is after all a pretty dumb beast, like most cats. (Who needs brains when you have fangs, claws, and looks?) He's not going to avoid humans when they're constantly nearby; familiarity breeds contempt and all that. (It can breed a hearty appetite too. Much as I like Victoria BC, I'd liefer not go strolling there alone.) An ape might very well show better sense than a mountain lion, i.e., a greter ability to learn from experience that humans are to be avoided.

I mean, look how good Bigfootsie is at it.
 
LAL said:
I don't think they are.

Cougars tend to avoid conflict, even as well-armed as they are. Animals that range singly tend to avoid situations where injury could occur. Without a group to carry them, an injury that merely reduces and ability to hunt or forage can be fatal.

Aside from reports, there's inconclusive footage that appears to show a male rocking back and forth in agitation. That's pretty typical ape behavior.
Click to expand...

Lu, you get into big trouble when you stop cutting-n-pasting the quotes of Bigfoot "experts" and start speaking your mind and try to steer the conversation to a meaningless direction.

Cougars...

1) Tend to avoid people.
2) Kill or maim people.
3) Can be clearly photographed or filmed.
4) Venture into urban and suburban environments.
5) Leave their DNA all over the place where they live.
6) Are shot, trapped, captured alive, relocated and can be found in zoos and are sometimes kept as pets.
7) Can be accounted for during routine biological field surveys.

Now what about this Bigfoot thing that allows itself to be seen, but has some uncanny and inexplicable ability to prevent scientific confirmation even when it (regularly) gets very close to people? Bigfoot ain't nothing like a cougar or a chimp, or even a human. It's a god or a myth, or both.
 
sackett said:
About those Victoria and other mountain lions: Let's be fair. Mr. Mountain Lion is after all a pretty dumb beast, like most cats. (Who needs brains when you have fangs, claws, and looks?)
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You, sir, have apparently not seen 'Meet the Parents'. That cat could flush. Don't even get me started on Garfield or Hobbes. Stimpy, on the other hand...

ETA: I feel safer walking alone at night in Tokyo than I do in Victoria. That's because of the crackheads, not the cougars. Most of the cougars there are of the two-legged variety.
 
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kitakaze said:
Yet both can claim nowhere near the same reported range of sasquatch and have allowed themselves to human habituation. I see no reason why this should not be the same with sasquatch. Humans have brought great damage and harm to chimpanzees and orangutans and their habitat and still this hasn't prevented habituation. Unless...
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Their range was once much larger. Aside from human destruction of the habitat, the retreat of the African forests had a profound effect on ape populations. They tend to be more specialized than our purported omnivorous hominid primate.

Thanks to LSB Leakey and National Geographic, ape projects were begun with Fossey, Goodall and Galdikas. Much of what we know is the direct result of that.

George Schaller was the first to do field work on gorillas without carrying a gun.

There have been individuals claiming to have had some success with habituation (not referring to Janice Coy) , but they tend to be secretive about it and, with most researchers being so willing to dismiss them out of hand as just more delusionals, it doesn't look like there will be too much more follow-up on that.

There are several privately funded efforts going on, but with a no-kill policy it's not likely they'll be the ones to bring in a corpse any time soon.

Next question:
What is the reason they've managed to elude identification across the continent over the last say, 150 years, in your opinion?
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They've been identified, just not by science.

Again, why has she not done this? I'm guessing it will be said that she's to busy. I would believe that given the leaky roof but that hasn't stopped her before. I'm in for some major apologizing if she does.
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She said she'd eat crow if she was wrong, didn't she? I was referring more to the heritage issue. I can't speak for her.

Bobbie Short thinks the MIM was an Ainu. From your pictures I'd say an IM index of 88 (Napier) in an Ainu is pretty unlikely. If the original MIM was an Asian species, it probably wasn't Japanese. ;) Thanks for the pictures.
 
LAL said:
There have been individuals claiming to have had some success with habituation (not referring to Janice Coy) , but they tend to be secretive about it and, with most researchers being so willing to dismiss them out of hand as just more delusionals, it doesn't look like there will be too much more follow-up on that.
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It's best not even to mention such secret evidence in support of the idea of bigfoot and human habituation. It's like your earlier reference to people having shot bigfoot. At the first touch of a follow up question, the evidence disappears.
 
William Parcher said:
Lu, you get into big trouble when you stop cutting-n-pasting the quotes of Bigfoot "experts" and start speaking your mind and try to steer the conversation to a meaningless direction.
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You seem to have misunderstood my point.

Animals that don't have the group to carry them tend to avoid conflict (even with each other). Cougars are an example of that. They tend to attack people where they're overpopulating. Where they're in balance with their environment, they're seldom seen. (Around here they seem to be seen by just about everyone but the officials who are still denying there are any in the area.)

They've been deliberately exterminated as "varmits" in many areas.

Except for a few "monster hunts" such as occured around Fouke, Arkansas, there haven't been too many attempts to hunt and destoy sasquatches. The individual territory for a lone male may be about like the range for a wolverine. How easy are they to track?
Now what about this Bigfoot thing that allows itself to be seen, but has some uncanny and inexplicable ability to prevent scientific confirmation even when it (regularly) gets very close to people? Bigfoot ain't nothing like a cougar or a chimp, or even a human. It's a god or a myth, or both.
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Why would an 8' ape have any reason to fear campers or even automobiles? In one close encounter of the near-collision kind, the animal calmly checked out the vehicle while the people inside cowered in terror.

It's an unidentified North American hominid primate-nothing more, nothing less-with nothing uncanny about it.

How many attempts at "scientific confirmation" have there been altogether?
 
This thread's showed in a spectacular way what most people suspected all along. After crying about how scientific analyses of Bf "evidence" have been missing, when such studies do take place and come back in the negative, 'footers have only one last resort:


Go for the insanity plea!
 
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