ThePentaCON releases trailer

Totovader said:
In your epiphany regarding the Pentagon- you didn't learn something about the methods of conspiracism, proper use of logic, and the many fallacies that are stretched and pulled by conspiracists?

When there is a conflict- what will it mean? How will you know the truth? And how can you apply this event to the rest of the events of that day?
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I am disgusted with conspiracism and most of those involved with it.

As soon as I decide on any future course of action and what role I will or will not play - I will let you know.

The one thing I feel obligated to fulfill is an analysis of PentaCON.

Understand the hard core "skeptics" here and the hard core CT's are just opposite sides of the same coin working hand in hand.

I am fatigued with the polarities. As an invasion of Iran is justified and the neo-cons continue with their original plan which 9/11 was the justification for carrying out, I may just watch and surrender to the futility of it all.

The closed minded and the fantasy minded are both very destructive to balance and reason.

In the end I may just become a hedonist.
 
Russell,

I would like to ask you a question and it really is only to gauge your opinion.

Do you think that these guys are help or a hindrance to the truth movement?

The reason I ask is because it seems their opinions and this movie is so far out there that it is in danger of actually doing more damage than good.

So Russell, what do you reckon help or hindrance?
 
Russell Pickering said:
I am disgusted with conspiracism and most of those involved with it.

As soon as I decide on any future course of action and what role I will or will not play - I will let you know.

The one thing I feel obligated to fulfill is an analysis of PentaCON.

Understand the hard core "skeptics" here and the hard core CT's are just opposite sides of the same coin working hand in hand.

I am fatigued with the polarities. As an invasion of Iran is justified and the neo-cons continue with their original plan which 9/11 was the justification for carrying out, I may just watch and surrender to the futility of it all.

The closed minded and the fantasy minded are both very destructive to balance and reason.

In the end I may just become a hedonist.
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What a perfect example of an ambiguous middle ground.

Mind explaining how a scientist / skeptic and a conspiracist can be the opposite sides of the same coin?

If you think it's a polarity- if you think there's a debate- then it's no wonder you're stuck in la-la land. There is no debate- there is no middle ground: you either accept science and logic, or you deny it in place of political bias. That's it.
 
Welcome back Russell. It has been a while since we have had a reasonable truther in here.

For all that Russell and I disagree on who did what wrt 9/11, I can honestly say that he tries to be intellectually honest. His views, like those of most humans, are skewed by his belief system...I can't knock him for it, but rather just wave across from the other side of the fence.

I am glad to see that you have not fallen for the lies of Merc and Lyte, as they predicted you would. You will be a powerful allie in bringing these two down when their video slander is brought forward.

TAM:)
 
lolololol

I really can't wait for this movie to be out. The "truth" will be revealed - but not truth about 9/11...
 
stateofgrace said:
Russell,

I would like to ask you a question and it really is only to gauge your opinion.

Do you think that these guys are help or a hindrance to the truth movement?

The reason I ask is because it seems their opinions and this movie is so far out there that it is in danger of actually doing more damage than good.

So Russell, what do you reckon help or hindrance?
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Without seeing the final form I cannot say for sure obviously.

If it reflects the "previews" we have seen and heard from the "filmmakers" then I believe it will be a distraction from what really happened at the Pentagon in and of itself. Anti-truth if you will.

Hopefully there will be an equal and opposite reaction to it. That somebody will come forward with a rebuttal or new evidence in response to it that truly does shed further light on the actual facts of the 3 dimensional world is our only hope.

The footage I have been trying to get of the exact moment of impact including audio is one example. Those people had a clear elevated view and know that nothing flew over. Out of the 3 cameras they had running, the southernmost camera shows a good deal of airspace behind the Pentagon and obviously nothing flies over. They are just terrified of being swarmed by the likes of our little "filmmakers" and as bad as I would like to get them out in the open I support their anonymity and freedom from nutcases as if it were my own.

If the PentaCON discredits hard core conspiracy theorists that will be a very good thing.

If the people who are creating and perpetrating this kind of crap get a good dose of karma - that will be a good thing too. I have seen egos like this get crushed many times in life. It just takes too long for my taste and desire for instant gratification.

The only really bad thing that is possible, is that by declaring the whole of people trying to understand 9/11 kooks, the possibility of people looking beyond the neo-con plan in a balanced way to understand these things may be diminished.

After the "nuclear" threat plan for Iran failed (probably because of the WMD fraud in relation to Iraq) they are now down to roadside bombs as a justification for the pre-9/11 plans to invade Iran. That is of course after invading Afghanistan 27 days later and passing the Patriot Act 45 days later.

The whole arena is full of unbalanced people on all sides as far as I am concerned.
 
Totovader said:
What a perfect example of an ambiguous middle ground.

Mind explaining how a scientist / skeptic and a conspiracist can be the opposite sides of the same coin?

If you think it's a polarity- if you think there's a debate- then it's no wonder you're stuck in la-la land. There is no debate- there is no middle ground: you either accept science and logic, or you deny it in place of political bias. That's it.
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Were you trying to make my point for me?

You have now become what you claim to hate.

It seems your dogmatism and unfounded allegations (as well as the undercurrent of seeking peer approval) has rendered you an echo of those you chastise.

God I love irony!!!
 
T.A.M. said:
Welcome back Russell. It has been a while since we have had a reasonable truther in here.

For all that Russell and I disagree on who did what wrt 9/11, I can honestly say that he tries to be intellectually honest. His views, like those of most humans, are skewed by his belief system...I can't knock him for it, but rather just wave across from the other side of the fence.

I am glad to see that you have not fallen for the lies of Merc and Lyte, as they predicted you would. You will be a powerful allie in bringing these two down when their video slander is brought forward.

TAM:)
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Hey TAM.

The effects of the rational people on this board have not been lost on me!!

I always agree to disagree and generally try to do it politely - but as you can see the walls are thinning!

I always look forward to informational dialogue from true skeptics with solid presentations!
 
Russell Pickering said:
Were you trying to make my point for me?

You have now become what you claim to hate.

It seems your dogmatism and unfounded allegations (as well as the undercurrent of seeking peer approval) has rendered you an echo of those you chastise.

God I love irony!!!
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This not only does not answer my question- but it only brings up more.

How- for example- am I "an echo of those I chastise"?

Don't think that ad hominem will allow you to escape.
 
Russell Pickering said:
Hush.

The grown ups are trying to talk.
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I see- so instead of actually being man enough to admit serious errors, you just play childish games.

I doubt you will ever change your website. I understand making mistakes- I don't understand willfully protecting them.
 
Russell Pickering said:
sigh

May we stick to the topic of this thread?
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I was on topic; I said it is funny a truther bashes a truther. Both have have problems finding facts to support their truther ideas.

I read all of your stuff, kind of silly now it is 9 months out, and still full of misleading information.

Bact to topic, you are telling us Merc and Lyte are fact less, and you suffer from 9 months of the same.

You have time to bash the PentaCON, but no time to update your site?

I keep up web pages, it takes minutes to update.

You are typing here to bash them - it is ironic, on topic.

Each post you make to deflect back to topic is from your rule book on handling non truthers - your own secret stuff from the old ready room.

RULES FOR WINNING:

1) ALWAYS keep in mind every time we type that we are REALLY talking to the man in Arizona and the woman in Minnesota.

2) Remember our every action and word may be the first impression a stranger may have of 9/11 truth.

3) The ONLY way to defeat a skeptic is to be classy and dignified no matter what. Even if they temporarily defeat an argument, we win.

4) RESEARCH and EVIDENCE is power.

5) UNITY is essential.

6) Patience is a weapon.

7) True commitment goes beyond our own egos.

8) Endurance will ALWAYS prevail.

9) Victory is sweet when combined with humility.

10) In the end, Truth will ALWAYS win.

Dig deeper, fight gracefully and wait for the victory. NOTHING is going to happen fast here. If you want to win it IS going to be painful at times. How important is it to you?

Russell
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I read your book and it means you would update your web site in minutes if you wanted to. You do not want to because you want more truhers, and you do not care if you have to pull a polite NIXON to get more truthers.

I think it is funny you are bashing the other truthers when you are still a misleading truther yourself as proved by your 9 month out of date web site.

You will not say a cute item from your rule book again.

Go ahead, but it is ironic to see truthers bash each other. Use that rule book - how to deflect the truth by Russell.

The fact you web site is more dangerous to the truth because it is harder to see as false than is Merc and Lytes junk. Merc and Lyte stuff is easy to debunk, your stuff is veiled behind subtle opinions sounding like facts useing false statements due to your lack of expertise and knowledge on the subject material where you pass on lies.

This is why it is ironic you bash these guys when you could fix your web site; which you will not because you do not intend of fixing things at all. If you did you would have started 9 months ago.

So the PentaCON trailer seems to present more shoddy research. I think it is funny, ironic, even sad you are blasting them without cleaning your own house.

Update Coming?
 
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Russell Pickering said:
Understand the hard core "skeptics" here and the hard core CT's are just opposite sides of the same coin working hand in hand.
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Horse-puckey. One side is right and one side is wrong on this; on that we can all agree, even if which side is which remains in debate. There is no middle ground where we can all just get along.

I am fatigued with the polarities. As an invasion of Iran is justified and the neo-cons continue with their original plan which 9/11 was the justification for carrying out, I may just watch and surrender to the futility of it all.

The closed minded and the fantasy minded are both very destructive to balance and reason.

In the end I may just become a hedonist.
Click to expand...

Battle against the neo-cons and the invasion of Iran the old-fashioned way; demonstrate and work for the election of those who will oppose them. This 9-11 conspiracy nonsense strikes me as the equivalent of the Hail Mary pass in football; a desperation heave by a team that has failed to win the game the normal way. This is not how you will get rid of Bush; you'll get rid of him in a little under two years' time through him being term-limited out.
 
Russell Pickering said:
Hey TAM.

The effects of the rational people on this board have not been lost on me!!

I always agree to disagree and generally try to do it politely - but as you can see the walls are thinning!

I always look forward to informational dialogue from true skeptics with solid presentations!
Click to expand...

No you look forward to playing talk games around the fact you will never change your web page; which makes it ironic you are blasting other truthers who at least assault truth with lies head on and not veiled behind some smoke screen, being your web site and 4 month old disclaimer.

I made solid critiques on your web site and showed how you are misleading. Your web site contains misleading information and I picked just a few in just a few minutes. You mislead instead of researching and explaining. Your purpose must be to mislead since for 9 months you acknowledge your mistakes. But it is one of your tactics you use to avoid correction, to push your ideas. Promise it, but never produce.

Now you blast these guys who are trying a more open approach? And you deflect the flack with talk.
A true researcher would as some real experts before going around and saying the things you posted on your web site. Your web site is made to fool people into thinking your way.

What is this skeptics talk? You are not surrounded by skeptics here. There are real bright people around here who can think and use logic with knowledge. They know more truth about 9/11 than you can scrape up in any LC video or web site like yours.

Every time I read your web site it makes me see how disingenuous you are as you try to correct the PentaCON team you are not correcting your own team.

Simple, on topic, and more truthful than your web site.
 
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Gravy said:
I believe that you believe these things, and I believe that you are severely delusional.

Please seek professional mental health care. ASAP. You have a serious problem.
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Gravy, it's getting a little annoying to see you act like some kind of doctor. You're not one, you're a tour guide.

Please stop.
 
chran said:
Gravy, it's getting a little annoying to see you act like some kind of doctor. You're not one, you're a tour guide.

Please stop.
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If I had cancer, and went to my doctor, I'd kinda hope he'd say "You have cancer, let me help" not "you have cancer, get some help".

-Gumboot
 
Russell thank for your candid reply, I will be equally candid with you.

At this moment it appears the truth movement is at a junction. It is starting to get the mainstream media attention it has been crying out to get for years. Over in the UK, although I have not seen it yet, a documentary was broadcast on the BBC about the conspiracies and three central characters emerged. Ok from all accounts this documentary did them no favors; this seems to be the general opinion. Equally so the Guardian has run an article and as the Daily Mail, these are both high volume new papers, they have a very large audience, again it was not favorable.

You guys are hoping to get LC: FC into theaters, I don’t doubt it may play and I don’t doubt it will be show in the UK, so lets just say I take this for granted at the moment. The mainstream media coverage you have received so far, could actually be nothing compared to what is coming your way when and if this does happen. The UK media is notorious for ripping people apart, they love scandals, the juicer the better, I’m sure it is the same in the US. If you get the media attention that you want, you may very well find that the reaction from them is swift and brutal. If annoyed they will start digging, they love to do this. They will attack your leaders credibility’s. I have seen it happen so many times in the UK. Celebes, footballers, politicians, the media loves nothing better than to destroy them. Don’t get me wrong I am not saying you personally but the more vocal leaders; like Dylan, Felzer and Jones may very well find that life suddenly becomes very uncomfortable for them.

So what is the point I am trying to make with regard these guys, Merc and Lytle? It’s simple they are part of your movement; they will be seen to be part of your movement.
You may very well be on the point of waking the sleeping giant, that being the mainstream media. These guys you will have to carry, for they are easy targets. Whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant, they will be seen as part of it all. The truth movement’s house is not in order; you need to get it in order before this happens. You need to ditch the dross and clear out the wing nuts or you will go down with them.

As I have said the media loves nothing better than to tear people apart, with guys like these two tagging along, you may very well find that the medias job is made all the more easier.

Just my two pennies worth
 
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