Holocaust Denier Assaults Elie Wiesel

Because Oliver, the Holocaust deniers claim that it never happened and is part of some Zionist conspiracy.

I know it happened, you know it happened. The conspiracy claim is made by those that refuse to believe.

Well, you might understand that this type of discussions
make me pretty angry as a gernan citizen. Another reason
why this BS is regulated by law since it already made a lot
of people very angry in the past.
 
Simple. Then stay away from the threads on the Flat Earth Society and Holocaust denial.

If you don't see a point in discussing it then don't.

Oh, i see: running away. Pal, my Grandparents witnessed
what happend to the Jews. So don't tell me some bulls***
about faked Holocaust.

What's your point - or to be more realistic, what's your
excuse this time to escape my question?
 
Oh, i see: running away. Pal, my Grandparents witnessed
what happend to the Jews. So don't tell me some bulls***
about faked Holocaust.

What's your point - or to be more realistic, what's your
excuse this time to escape my question?

Where did I deny the Holocaust? Where did I say anything that is bullsh!t?

My problem is with your disruption here; your attack on the person who started this thread.
 
Where did I deny the Holocaust? Where did I say anything that is bullsh!t?

My problem is with your disruption here; your attack on the person who started this thread.

And? Why not? I see no connection to any conspiracy
just because a nut goes into Jail. I didn't even heard about
the case here in germany. It is no conspiracy that this guy
went into Jail.
 
Well, you might understand that this type of discussions
make me pretty angry as a gernan citizen. Another reason
why this BS is regulated by law since it already made a lot
of people very angry in the past.

I can understand your viewpoint on the subject, but here in the US there are no laws about it and plenty of neonazi supporters that like to preach denial.

It is a very angering subject.
 
And? Why not? I see no connection to any conspiracy
just because a nut goes into Jail. I didn't even heard about
the case here in germany. It is no conspiracy that this guy
went into Jail.

The thread is about a conspiracy nut who committed a crime. Thus, it is in the conspiracy forum.
 
I can understand your viewpoint on the subject, but here in the US there are no laws about it and plenty of neonazi supporters that like to preach denial.

It is a very angering subject.

I don't seem to understand - why is this a CT issue
and not a Political/Social one?
 
The Holocaust seems to be a pretty important issue
to you if you track every statement i made on the
issue. Why is it important to you? - If you care to
discuss.

You have repeatedly insulted people, including myself, by ascribing motives and jumping to conclusions when it is clear you fail to comprehend simple statements, the point of the CT forum, and this forum in general.

If you notice the threads about intelligent design being in the science forums even though intelligent design isn't science.

The JREF discusses people who have irrational beliefs and the beliefs itself. Holocaust denial, evolution denial, science denial, and so on.

Someone who can't understand basic syllogisms shouldn't be rude and so prone to jump to conclusions.

This thread is about a conspiracy theorist (the crazy guy who attacked Elie Wiesel). That is why it is here.
 
You have repeatedly insulted people, including myself, by ascribing motives and jumping to conclusions when it is clear you fail to comprehend simple statements, the point of the CT forum, and this forum in general.

If you notice the threads about intelligent design being in the science forums even though intelligent design isn't science.

The JREF discusses people who have irrational beliefs and the beliefs itself. Holocaust denial, evolution denial, science denial, and so on.

Someone who can't understand basic syllogisms shouldn't be rude and so prone to jump to conclusions.

This thread is about a conspiracy theorist (the crazy guy who attacked Elie Wiesel). That is why it is here.

Well, in this case i clear it up:

The Holocaust happend. We have a law against denying it.
The Idiot broke the law. He's in Jail. End of story.

If you disagree with the law or the verdict: JREF/Politics.

If you want to discuss the conspiracy theories about the
Holocaust: Feel free to open a thread in JREF/CT. :)
 
Well, well, well, looky what we have here...

If people bothered to express some skepticism on a web forum devoted to such they would have found out through a simple search engine that Elie Wiesel is a pathological liar and inventor of tall tales. www.ihr.org/leaflets/wiesel.shtml
I found it interesting that when Wiesel had the chance to be liberated by the Red Army when they overran Auschwitz in 1945 he and his father chose to retreat with the nazi forces?! But wasn't that place supposed to be hell on earth and he chose to leave with his hellish captors!

Another neo-Nazi, anti-Semite, Holocaust denier. Quoting from the Institute for Historical Review, which can't get its facts straight with a ruler.

Well, of course they aren't interested in getting their facts straight, the IHR's two purposes in life are to attack the Jews and rehabilitate Hitler, not necessarily in that order.

If you want to look at web sources on these slanders against Wiesel and others, try Nizkor, The Holocaust History Project, and the Holocaust Cyrbrary, for starters.

As for Mondial, who is the latest junior Jackboot to march in over here and think he'll find a ready audience of Himmler wanna-bes, I'll toss at him some of the same questions I've hurled at A-Train, MaGZ, and other would-be Fuhrers:

1. Since you think the Holocaust didn't happen, can you give a documented, referenced, bibliographed, proven narrative as to what happened in Nazi Germany and occupied Europe between 1939 and 1945?
2. How did the world's Jews manage to forge documents in many different nations, some of which were diametrically opposed to each other, and maintain this forgery for 70 years?
3. How have they been able to come up with so many survivors, liberators, and witnesses, whose testimony converges with the physical evidence?
4. Millions of Jews were supposedly killed during the Holocaust. If they were not killed, where are they?
5. According to neo-Nazis, Nazism is not anti-Semitic, and actually supported the Jews. How do you reconcile this with the many anti-Semitic statements of "Mein Kampf," and the Nuremberg Race Laws?
6. Of the 21 defendants at the 1945-1946 Nuremberg War Crimes Trials, none were tortured, all pleaded not guilty, all had lawyers, and all gave vigorous defenses, and denied their involvement in the Holocaust. How do you reconcile those facts with neo-Nazi claims that the defendants were forced to confess on pain of torture or death to themselves or their families?
7. None of the families of these defendants were tortured, either. What happened to them.
8. Rudolf Hoess, Commandant of Auschwitz, admitted his role in the Holocaust in his memoirs, written AFTER he was sentenced to death, so he had no reason to lie. Why did he admit to massive crimes that neo-Nazis say he did not commit?
9. Kevin Strom is facing federal charges for downloading child pornography on his computer and witness tampering in this case. How does this behavior reconcile with Nazi commitment to racial purity and morality?
10. Neo-Nazi leader David Duke did 15 months in a federal prison for defrauding his supporters. He used their funds, raised for his party, to gamble on Mississippi River casino boats, which had multi-racial crews and guests. How does this behavior reconcile with the high moral ground taken by Nazi and neo-Nazi leaders.
11. An Aryan is slim, like Goering; tall, like Goebbels; blonde, like Hess; and heroic, like Himmler. Explain these discrepancies.
12. David Irving sued Deborah Lipstadt in an English court for libel over her book "Denying the Holocaust," and was hammered. Explain why an Aryan Englishman who has stood up for the white race and Nazism for 68 years, and be in possession of the unvarnished truth, be defeated by a mere Jewish American woman.
13. The White race in general and Aryans in particular are the supreme race on the planet Earth. Explain then why they have been defeated so roundly by sub-human Jews.
14. Matthew Hale, leader of the World Church of the Creator and Pontifex Maximus, is in prison for hiring people to kill a judge who actually ruled in his favor in a copyright case. Explain why Mr. Hale found such methods necessary, why he pursued a judge who ruled for him, and why the Pontifex Maximus would get caught.
15. Jews, being a subhuman species, are incapable of any form of science, art, literature, or honesty, according to Adolf Hitler. Please explain, then, how a Jew named Jonas Salk developed the polio vaccine, and many other Jews have earned Nobel Prizes in a variety of fields.
16. The program for neo-Nazi takeover of America and other nations depends on the following procedures:

A. Neo-Nazis standing on street corners in brownshirts, waving swastika banners, yelling "Sieg Heil."
B. Neo-Nazis holding barbecues in backyards, where they consume bratwurst and beer, whine about Jews and blacks, get drunk, and occasionally beat each other up to prove toughness.
C. Neo-Nazis waging internet flame wars in discussion forums, hurling insults.

Which of these techniques is most likely to enable neo-Nazis to take power in America and other nations?

17. In the past 60 years, vast amounts of additional evidence has appeared to support the narrative of the Holocaust. However, during that same time, none of the practitioners of the Holocaust "myth" nor their descendants have admitted their forgery. How do you account for this?
18. Under the brilliant leadership of Adolf Hitler, the united German people and Aryan race strode forth upon the European and world stage to eliminate the twin bacilli of Bolshevism and Jewry. Given their moral, intellectual, and volkisch superiority to Communism, Capitalism, and Judaism, why did Germany lose the war?
19. Neo-Nazism as practiced in America and other nations today represents the elite of the white race. Why, then, are so many of its members individuals with violent criminal records, and involved in drug trafficking and other illegal and extremely immoral activities?
20. Nazism and its allied politics are the results of the greatest thinking of white humanity and the voice of the Aryan race. Yet in the 60 years since Hitler was defeated, Nazism is no closer to taking power in any nation-state than on V-E Day. Why has the Aryan race failed in this manner?

20 questions ought to do it. But I have plenty more...like, are you on state or federal welfare....have you ever held a real job...have you ever left your parents' basement...is there a history of alcoholism or domestic abuse in your family...have you ever met a Jew...have you ever kissed a girl...did you actually read "Mein Kampf" and "Imperium," and were you the victim of bullying in junior high school. But these will do for now.
 
How come there's such an increased flow of antisemite nazis coming to this forum in the past month or so?

Is this their new year blitz?

I think our resident Jewish people need a hug. :grouphug5
 
How come there's such an increased flow of antisemite nazis coming to this forum in the past month or so?

Is this their new year blitz?

It's because they're members of the "Truth Movement" (tm). No surprise, there. The tinhat brigade is full of neo-nazis and other anti-semites, and the neo-nazi brigade is full of tinhatters. Again, no surprise.

They go together like peanut butter and jam; like cheese and crackers; like eggs and ham; like fruit and nuts. Well, you get the idea.
 
....
12. David Irving sued Deborah Lipstadt in an English court for libel over her book "Denying the Holocaust," and was hammered. Explain why an Aryan Englishman who has stood up for the white race and Nazism for 68 years, and be in possession of the unvarnished truth, be defeated by a mere Jewish American woman.

There is a good book on the subject by Richard Evans called "Lying About Hitler: History, Holocaust, and the David Irving Trial."

Very good at exploring Irving's distortions and outright lies.
 
Got that book...

There is a good book on the subject by Richard Evans called "Lying About Hitler: History, Holocaust, and the David Irving Trial."

Very good at exploring Irving's distortions and outright lies.


And it is terrific. I also recommend the books Evans did after that, "The Coming of the Third Reich" and "The Third Reich in Power." Terrific research and writing.

"I never realized that the Third Reich meant Germany! It's drenched with historical goodies like that!" -- The Producers
 
Good question...

How come there's such an increased flow of antisemite nazis coming to this forum in the past month or so?

Is this their new year blitz?

I think our resident Jewish people need a hug. :grouphug5

The neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers are coming here because we're a large, intelligent, and therefore obvious target. They lash out at their perceived enemies when they get hammered.

When David Irving got sentenced to three years in the Austrian slammer last year, Deborah Lipstadt got a wave of angry and obscene e-mails from his acolytes, blaming her for his mess. What they ignored (among so many other things) was that Lipstadt publicly opposed Irving's jailing, and has repeatedly opposed laws that make Holocaust denial a crime.

However, because she had stomped Irving but good in that 2000 libel case, she was an obvious target for them.

Neo-Nazis are taking it on the chin lately. The Irving jailing was an embarrassment for them, because Irving went to Austria deliberately to challenge the law, thinking he would make it look stupid. He went to court with a first-class BA ticket to London for that night in his pocket, expecting to get a slap on the wrist and to go home. When he learned he might go to jail, he started tap-dancing on the Holocaust, and admitted it had really happened. Once jailed, he went back to being a denier. He looked a fool.

Ernst Zundel can play the martyr all he wants, but the Canadians regarded him as a bankroller for neo-Nazis and like-minded organizations. When he went to the United States, he tried to stay there with a marriage. The Americans said, "Nice try," so Zundel went back to Canada, and they happily bounced him to Germany and his outstanding warrants. He should have tried Brazil or Costa Rica.

The IHR has not put out magazines lately, not held its usual conferences, and the last few magazines have been blatant with their links to neo-Nazis, down to advertisements, so their position as an "objective" research organization and not being anti-Semitic is looking as bad as their money picture.

Germar Rudolf got his ticket back to Germany when he walked into the ICE office, knowing there was a warrant on him, to try to stay in the States. His appearance saved the ICE having to send out agents to arrest him. He should be charged with terminal stupidity.

And the recent conference in Iran only makes neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers look worse. They're not too good at knowing how to make a good public image, and hanging out in Teheran with other cracked anti-Semites and Muslim fanatics only make the deniers look like, well...cracked anti-Semites and Muslim fanatics.

More importantly, the "conference"'s main line of goods was not that the Holocaust didn't happen, but that the Holocaust didn't justify Israel's existence and policies. That's a horse of a different color.

We have also seen neo-Nazi groups imploding because of their own internal weaknesses. Kevin Strom is going down for downloading child pornography on his computer and witness tampering in connection with that behavior. Strom's group, the National Alliance, is beyond being in disarray. Jeff Schoep's band that tortured Toledo also split over internal divisions. Matt Hale is in the federal can, William Pierce and Richard Girnt Butler are dead, and Tom Metzger went back to his native Illinois, still in debt to the family of the Ethiopian kid his acolytes killed back in 1990. All the neo-Nazis have left now is that fantastic musical act, "Prussian Blue," led by 14-year-old twin girls Lynx and Lamb Gaede, who are not getting any rave reviews for their content or style.

When we study the membership and behaviors of neo-Nazi groups, we find a great deal of people who would not match up to the alleged standards of the Nazi Party. Not many chiseled Aryans there, defending right and honor, just a bunch of tattooed thugs, stomping perceived enemies, defenseless targets, and each other, with their Doc Martens boots, drinking and drugging their way to oblivion. "American History X" is actually a very accurate description of these outfits and their people and activities.

For all their bluster, their only real impact on society is the emotional pain they cause by their appearances, the expense they inflict on government agencies in protecting their "rallies," and, most importantly, the physical harm they cause on innocent minds and bodies...they twist impressionable and ignorant young minds to their cause and waste their lives, and practice violence on innocent people, destroying those lives.

Raphael Ezekiel sums them up well in the conclusion of his detailed study of these clowns, "The Racist Mind," he studies the behavior of the Nazi group he was "embedded" in. They spent much of their time sitting around, re-reading Nazi literature, watching home videos of rallies (theirs or other groups), and reviewing photographs and accounts of their own previous events, gloating over minor scuffles, and yelling "Heil!" and "White Power!" at the speakers on TV. They were doing little else with their lives...no education, no jobs, no families, no training, no careers, no hope. They were sidetracked on a dead-end track by history, and locked in a permanent fantasy life and adolescence. His last words, "The waste is profound."

I think the desperation of the neo-Nazis is seen in Eric Hunt's behavior. He darned well knew that stalking and kidnapping a 78-year-old man is a very serious offense, and he can't hide behind "free speech" in defending that one. Notice that he fled to a looney bin back in New Jersey, to prepare his defense.

They are beginning to learn that the world has shown them enough tolerance, and has had enough of their behavior and antics. Neo-Nazism and Holocaust denial is a reactive movement with no real program and no ideas, so their behavior is purely reactive to being pushed in and shunned by the world. The less relevant they are to humanity and history, the more they are ignored, ridiculed, despised, and shunned, the greater their need to scream, "We are here."

Their lives are a dull and angry world of whining, paranoia, and bitterness. Creating battles and incidents puts action and adventure into this otherwise gloomy and depressing existence.

So they come here, hoping not as much to win adherents and converts (they won't find any here), but to make a romantic and exciting stand against the New World Order and the Jews. It's easy to do so, they can be anonymous (thus avoiding retaliation), and gives them the attention they want and the sense of importance they think they deserve.

As I often say, the pathology is more interesting to me than the garbage they put out. The neo-Nazis haven't come up with anything new since "Mein Kampf." And I don't think there's anyone but a history professor or a politics major who has read that book from cover to cover. Certainly the Nazis didn't.
 
As we get further and further away from the actual event and less of the survivors are still living, the attack on history will increase. The recent conference in Iran is probably the ignition point for much of the current debate and IMO it will last until Hitler's Birthday this year than die out again until next year.
 
As we get further and further away from the actual event and less of the survivors are still living, the attack on history will increase. The recent conference in Iran is probably the ignition point for much of the current debate and IMO it will last until Hitler's Birthday this year than die out again until next year.

Yes, that's what I'm afraid of too. And especially now with the internet, who knows how badly History is going to suffer from these nuts. How are our kids and grand kids going to differenciate between good and bad information? That's a frightening thought.

Just look at 9/11 and how it's being distorted, and it's just been 6 years!

Kudos for Spielberg and the like who gather the last remaining testimonies of the Holocaust survivors.
 
Last edited:

Back
Top Bottom