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Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

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William Parcher said:
Huntster asked the exact same question about PWI/Kodiak about a month ago. He got reasonable answers and seemed to be satisfied. Now he asks it again like it is a brand new question.
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That, sir, is a claim.

Please link to those "reasonable answers", and please especially post a link to my "satisfaction".
 
LTC8K6 said:
The people who settled on POW came from a place with the lore and brought it with them?
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By the time I type something...five more posts have been made! Is the argument that Kodiak Island have no modern sightings or that there are no myths from there? One explaination for a lack of myths would be that the people on Kodiak Islands didn't get all their stories recorded by white folks, so therefore we don't have a record today (even though they may have had them) or the stories were recorded but are still laying somewhere in some ethnographic field notes.

The Nawao and Menehune are well-known Polynesian stories. Unless I am mistaken, the stories are not related to actual sightings but rather as an explanation for features on the islands that the new inhabitants couldn't otherwise explain (why they are called an ancient race, meaning they were never seen, just their artifacts). This is in contract to most U.S. tribes stories that include descriptions and behaviors of something they claim they saw on a regular basis.
 
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William Parcher said:
Hairy Man, here is an old tiki from the Marquesas Islands...

http://www.janeresture.com/polynesia_myths/tahtiki.jpg

If this artifact had been made by a PNW tribe, would it be used by Bigfooters as support for Bigfoot? What "creature" do you suppose it represents in Polynesia (it's origin)?
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Why would someone call that a bigfoot? It looks like a human to me (especially in Polynesian culture). I don't know how familiar you are with my work, but I don't ever claim an artifact/totem pole/rock art as being related to bigfoot unless the tribe itself claims it. Art should never be taken out of it's context, since it isn't ours in the first place.
 
Huntster said:
There are no sasquatch reports from the South Pacific Islands (and if you produce "1", I'll whip out Glickman on you).
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I don't know of any modern reports, but the Nawao seems to fit the bill as an ancestral "Hawaiian Bigfoot".

So, I ask yet again: Why kushtakas on POW Island (and throughout the rest of the Gulf of Alaska), and none on Kodiak Island?
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How the hell is anyone supposed to provide a definitive answer to that from their armchair? I gave you my speculations on that a month ago. Posing this question (or any anticipated answer) is not good support for Bigfoot existence. I suppose you could go door-to-door on Kodiak and ask the people. Maybe some of them do believe in Bigfoot or have seen them, but are trying to protect their careers by keeping quiet. :D
 
Hairy Man said:
....Is the argument that Kodiak Island have no modern sightings or that there are no myths from there?
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To my knowledge, both.

One explaination for a lack of myths would be that the people on Kodiak Islands didn't get all their stories recorded by white folks, so therefore we don't have a record today (even though they may have had them) or the stories were recorded but are still laying somewhere in some ethnographic field notes.
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That's possible, however, the Gulf of Alaska native cultures were the first Alaska Natives to have contact with Europeans, the Alaska Native cultures which have had the most contact with Europeans, and particularly Kodiak Island, which is where the first Russian society was based.
 
LTC8K6 said:
I can conceive of ways to create a chicken without a chicken egg. I can't think of a way we could get a chicken egg without a chicken.
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Don't you dare let Huntster bait you into a chicken/egg debate. You got lots of time to waste, LTC?
 
LTC8K6 said:
I thought the interpretation of kushtaka was in dispute, though?
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There are two distinct (but related) meanings of the Tlingit word "kushtaka":

1) "The Otter Man", or a large, hairy, bipedal creature that is known by you as a "sasquatch", or "bigfoot", and
2) Evil spirits (which, since SE Alaska's "sasquatches" have a reputation for being quite aggressive, still fits)

Kushtaka doesn't sound anything like bigfoot, so what are you talking about?
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The creature I call "sasquatch", you just called "bigfoot", and the Tlingit call "kushtaka."
 
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LTC8K6 said:
Weren't brown bears on POW in the past, though?
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Yes:

....They also studied the bear bones where they lay, and decided that at least one of the cave's long-dead residents wasn't a black bear. Their original guess was that the oversized bones belonged to a giant short-faced bear, an extinct species.....

.....Laboratory studies confirmed that more than one species of bear had lived in the cave over the years, but none of the fossilized bones were from a giant short-faced bear. The largest bones---and some of the smaller ones---came from grizzlies. The rest were from black bears, as expected.

What hadn't been expected was that the two species had overlapped on Prince of Wales Island for almost 2000 years. Nowadays only black bears are found on this large lump of the Alexander Archipelago, and the two species rarely coexist on any of the offshore land masses of Southeast. Where they do meet, the larger grizzlies usually dominate and drive off the black bears. Though the remains in the cave indicate that grizzly bears were numerous in the early days, in geological terms, quite soon after the glaciers receded from the island about 14,000 years ago, somehow this time they didn't prevail over their smaller cousins. Nobody knows why; no one has enough evidence yet even to make an intelligent guess......
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The descriptions I have read of Otter Man do not sound like sasquatch at all to me. It's quite a stretch, imo. I think I can stop right there if Otter Man is your POW sasquatch.

No sasquatch lore leaves me with nothing to answer.
 
Huntster said:
That's possible, however, the Gulf of Alaska native cultures were the first Alaska Natives to have contact with Europeans, the Alaska Native cultures which have had the most contact with Europeans, and particularly Kodiak Island, which is where the first Russian society was based.
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Yeah, but that doesn't mean the stories were recorded. I'm finding that to be a huge issue in many tribes where entire classes of stories and traditions (such as methods of basket weaving, materials, etc.) just weren't recorded or documented.

Huntster said:
There are two distinct (but related) meanings of the Tlingit word "kushtaka":

1) "The Otter Man", or a large, hairy, bipedal creature that is known by you as a "sasquatch", or "bigfoot",
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Correct, that is the same information I have. People may be thrown by the name translation of "Otter Man" but we all know there are issues with translating languages (not to mention Tlingit). My favorite so far is is the Nelchina word Gilyuk - a horrible huge hairy, smelly, bigoot-like creature who's name in English means "Big Man with little hat"...figure that one out!
 
William Parcher said:
Quote:
So, I ask yet again: Why kushtakas on POW Island (and throughout the rest of the Gulf of Alaska), and none on Kodiak Island?
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How the hell is anyone supposed to provide a definitive answer to that from their armchair?
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In the same manner used to provide definitive statements that sasquatches don't exist from that same armchair.

I gave you my speculations on that a month ago.
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And that answer is?.................

Posing this question (or any anticipated answer) is not good support for Bigfoot existence.
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1) The question was directed to kitikaze
2) The question pertains to the sasquatch phenomenon (whether or not the creature exists)
3) Please explain why it "is not good support for Bigfoot existence" on POW Island and not on Kodiak Island.

I suppose you could go door-to-door on Kodiak and ask the people. Maybe some of them do believe in Bigfoot or have seen them, but are trying to protect their careers by keeping quiet. :D
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Are the fishing careers somehow more secure than the fishing careers on POW Island? (Oh, yeah, same economies on the two islands, too........)
 
LAL said:
Dr. Fahrenbach noted there are problems in comparing hairs from different parts of an animal's body, but he's been clear that human hair sometimes lacks a medulla, but the purported sasquatch hairs always do.
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I think a certain amount of skepticism concerning these hair samples can be appreciated when what it comes down to is that what's being considered an identifying feature by proponents (lack of medulla) is what's preventing any meaningful attempt to identify them. I think this is a reason why such evidence is fairly considered inconclusive as opposed to reliable. That said, it is unfortunate that recovering hairs seems to be such a difficult proposition.
LAL said:
I think it's an unidentified bipedal hominid primate, as Dr. Swindler put it. I think it's a descendant of Gigantopithecus blacki or a similar, unknown species.
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Understood. I won't ask what the speculation is based on as we've covered it there and back and I don't want to derail the dialogue.

Next question:

What kind of intelligence level would you speculate these creatures have?
LAL said:
What, if anything, of the evidence you know of, might fit your definition of "reliable evidence"?
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Nothing that I've seen so far as none of it is not easily attributable to something other than sasquatch. For myself personally, I would like for some to be produced so that a proper inquiry could be warranted but this is based on my own romantic desire for such creatures to exist and not on any reasonable expectation that such evidence is there to be found.
 
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LTC8K6 said:
....Note that I didn't say they would work, just that I could conceive of them.
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Is is somehow permissible to "conceive" of ways to manufacture chickens without going through conception/hatching, yet inpermissible to consider why people on POW claim to have seen kushtakas throughout their history there, and the people of Kodiak Island not to have those same experiences/history?
 
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