Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

[William Parcher]

Why does Prince of Wales Island "have the lore" and Kodiak Island does not?

What came first? The chicken or the egg?

WTF are you trying to do? Trying to force a skeptic to say that the reason must be because Bigfoot actually lives on PWI, but not on Kodiak?

 

[LAL]

C'mon LAL...if someone decides to follow up on a claimed Bigfeetsus sighting or trackway discovery etc etc it's really on them to deal with the expense of time and travel...based simply on what it is that they are following up on.

I could see if hoaxers contacted the police or whatever than it would just be falsifying a police report I believe...of which I have no idea what the fine/penalty is.

They don't tend to do that for obvious reasons.

Peter Byrne ran a high-profile project complete with toll-free reporting number. They got so many phony calls they stopped following up on most calls because they were running short of funds. Peter was actually well-funded for an investigator. In other cases, the prints and other evidence might be so trampled by the curious it was useless by the time he could get there. He said in his book he'd found about a dozen tracks he thought were genuine and about eight he thought were hoaxed. Naturally, he would get calls from hoaxers reporting the tracks they'd made.

Note Dr. Swindler was still sceptical in 1996:

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/peter.htm

One trackway Peter found in snow went on for miles. He didn't know himself where he was going that day.

I don't understand the mentality of people who think trying to fool someone who is dedicated to getting at the truth of the phenomenon is somehow amusing, but then I don't watch sports, either (except for championship figure skating when there's nothing else on my 1 1/2 channels), or put cats in the microwave.

Since you have a real investigator on the board, why don't you ask Hairy Man about this?

 

[LAL]

Why does Prince of Wales Island "have the lore" and Kodiak Island does not?

What came first? The chicken or the egg?

Hawaiians seem to be pretty short on imagination too.

 

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster
Why does Prince of Wales Island "have the lore" and Kodiak Island does not?

What came first? The chicken or the egg?

WTF are you trying to do? Trying to force a skeptic to say that the reason must be because Bigfoot actually lives on PWI, but not on Kodiak?

I asked a question.

I've been asked several and was invited to ask one in return. I asked.

LTC made an attempt to answer. I followed up on his answer with another valid question.

Do you have a reasonable answer?

 

[Mad Hom]

Maybe you two could take it to the Flame Wars so the rest of us can get on with it without all the distraction?

For once I actually agree with you LAL....my apologies...I have been holding my tongue with this guy for a few pages now....sorry I blew up.

 

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster
Why does Prince of Wales Island "have the lore" and Kodiak Island does not?

What came first? The chicken or the egg?

Hawaiians seem to be pretty short on imagination too.

Yes, but at least they're consistently "unimaginable" along with their other South Pacific Island neighbors.

Kodiak and POW Islands? So similar in culture, population, ratio of aboriginals/immigrants, climate, etc?

Why such a glaring contrast in brown/black bear populations, and such a similarly glaring contrast in sasquatch reports?

 

[Mad Hom]

I asked a question.

I've been asked several and was invited to ask one in return. I asked.

LTC made an attempt to answer. I followed up on his answer with another valid question.

Do you have a reasonable answer?

So Kodiak has had people on it for as long as PWI than?...I'm asking because I want to be clear on it...that and the original way I phrased the question was answered by you somewhat...right about the time I was writing the original version of this post.

 

[William Parcher]

I don't understand the mentality of people who think trying to fool someone who is dedicated to getting at the truth of the phenomenon is somehow amusing...

Forget the amusement part for now. Hoaxes can provide valuable information. If someone creates a fake trackway and a "Bigfoot investigator" declares it legitimate, then we all learn that the investigator is incapable of determining real from fake (see the title of this thread). In that sense, each hoax is a kind of experiment.

Remember the bus driver that swore he pursued a stinking Bigfoot. That was a hoax. We all learned that a reserve Vancouver city police officer (the driver) thought that a guy in the suit was a real Bigfoot. We all now know that police officers can be wrong about Bigfoot.

But what about the smell he reported? "The first thing I noticed was the smell...a horrible smell like very rotten meat..." If the guy in the suit wasn't carrying rotten meat, then what are we supposed to think of that claim? Is it even possible that the police officer busdriver lied about the smell to make it more believable? Had he already heard that Bigfoot is supposed to stink?

 

[William Parcher]

Hawaiians seem to be pretty short on imagination too.

Bite your tongue and meet Little Bigfoot.

More.

 

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster
I asked a question.

I've been asked several and was invited to ask one in return. I asked.

LTC made an attempt to answer. I followed up on his answer with another valid question.

Do you have a reasonable answer?

So Kodiak has had people on it for as long as PWI than?...

I don't know if the ultimate truth on that question can be answered with precise accuracy, but yes, both islands are believed to have been inhabited during a similar period:

....Archaeologists believe that modern Native Americans are descended from Asiatic peoples that walked or paddled into Alaska at the end of the last great ice age. This gradual migration began about 12,000 years ago. Some settlers made Alaska their home, while others spread south and east, rapidly populating all of North and South America, from the northern-most reaches of the Canadian Archipelago to the southern tip of Chile....

The historic Kodiak "tribe" are known as Alutiiq, while POW island was shared among the "tribes" of Tlingits and Haida.

 

[William Parcher]

I guess Hawaii has/had a Biggie after all.

 

[RayG]

When Meldrum examined the forty crossing the field Freeman didn't know he was coming.

Sigh.... someone want to ask LAL how this was confirmed? Dr. Meldrum didn't mention his travel plans to anyone? 'Unannounced visit' is the way it's referred to in his book Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science, (page 23), but unannounced doesn't equate to unanticipated.

Dahinden said in an interview he thought Freeman made tracks by scoopng them out with his hands. How'd he do that without leaving knee prints clear across the field? His footprints were where he left them when he found the trackway, but Jeff and his friend found others Freeman hadn't seen.

Dahinden may have been mistaken in trying to guess how the prints had been manufactured, and the prints Freeman showed to Meldrum were beside a road where a truck had stopped. Meldrum even comments how easily a hoaxer could hop out of the back of the truck, leave some footprints, then hop back into the truck.

The additional prints Meldrum discovered, which Freeman may have planted earlier, were located beside a drainage ditch. Might that have been beside the road as well?

Yes, how did those flat wooden feet, in three different sizes, manage to leave prints with varying toe positions? There are 360 photographs of the event, as I recall, and they show this quite clearly.

It has to be wooden feet? No other method whatsoever?

Flat, wooden feet have a snowshoe effect and are worthless on inclines. The blind believers experimented and found this out.

I thought experiments with non-wooden feet showed no snowshoe effect.

RayG

 

[LTC8K6]

Why does Prince of Wales Island "have the lore" and Kodiak Island does not?

What came first? The chicken or the egg?

The people on POW were better story tellers? The people who settled on POW came from a place with the lore and brought it with them?

Chickens make chicken eggs. Unless there is another source of chicken eggs, I'm going to have to say you need a chicken to get a chicken egg.

 

[William Parcher]

Bite your tongue and meet Little Bigfoot.

More.

Screwed up my own link. The second one is supposed to be from Wikipedia on the Menehune.

Hunster may also need to bite his tongue when he says, "Yes, but at least they're consistently "unimaginable" along with their other South Pacific Island neighbors." Because it is looking like the menehune is a Polynesian myth that is not restricted to Hawaii.

EDIT: I am basing this supposition on the title of this reference: Luomala, Katherine (1951): "The Menehune of Polynesia and Other Mythical Little People of Oceania". Bernice P. Bishop Museum Bulletin Vol. 203; Kraus Reprint, Millwood, N.Y., 1986

 

[Hairy Man]

OK, in your opinion, if within reason money and time was not a restricting factor, what would your best advice be for me if I was intent on seeing a live sasquatch?

If you are only intent on seeing a live sasquatch (of course with the knowledge that it's always a needle in a haystack, unless you pay $300 to attend a BFRO expedition where an "experience" is guaranteed), then I would spend as much time as possible in an area where witnesses have reported sightings recently and has good habitat. I would recommend that you camp in that area; hike and/or drive the roads during the day (looking for either footprints or a guy carrying wooden feet) and hang around your fire at night. Stay in the area for as long as you can stand it. You could experiment with a few tactics that some folks use (to no true success to date) of baiting with everything from pancakes (don't forget the syrup or the guy in the hootie gets mad) to liver, call blasting reported bigfoot calls or known animals (monkey, deer, tortured child), etc.

If your goal is to see and document one, then I would add purchase of good video equipment, night vision (3rd gen), camera traps (cause you never know who is stealing your pancakes), hydrocal, and an evidence collection kit.

For locations, Skookum Meadow is where I would start.

Individually, Huntster's outdoors/wildlife/hunting experience along with a find of what was interpreted as sasquatch sign, LAL's detailed general knowledge, and your professional background and experience make you all uniquely qualified participants for the dialogue.

Ah, got it!

 

[William Parcher]

Huntster asked the exact same question about PWI/Kodiak about a month ago. He got reasonable answers and seemed to be satisfied. Now he asks it again like it is a brand new question.

 

[Huntster]

Why does Prince of Wales Island "have the lore" and Kodiak Island does not?

The people on POW were better story tellers?

Alutiiq, Tlingit, Haida, and all other Alaskan Native peoples have strong oral traditions and histories, they are all very similar, and none have a written historical record.

So why no kushtaka tradition among Alutiiq, while Tlingit, Haida, Tshimshian, Athapaskan, etc all have various degrees of such lore?

The people who settled on POW came from a place with the lore and brought it with them?

They all came from the same place.

More, both Kodiak and POW natives (as well as the other Gulf of Alaska tribes) have a well known and long tradition of coastal seafaring, including trade and wanderings from the lower Aleutian chain all the way to California.

So why no sasquatch reports on Kodiak Island?

Chickens make chicken eggs.

And chickens hatch from egs.

Unless there is another source of chicken eggs, I'm going to have to say you need a chicken to get a chicken egg.

And in order to get a chicken, it has to hatch from an egg.

 

[LTC8K6]

Looks like all I have to do is cut the wooden feet in half and wear or use only the front or back half sometimes. Maybe make it 2/3rds instead. That would look better going up and down hills. 2/3rds of the front for the uphill stuff and 2/3rds of the back for the downhill parts. Sprinkle these 2/3rd prints in at times.

 

[Huntster]

....Hunster may also need to bite his tongue when he says, "Yes, but at least they're consistently "unimaginable" along with their other South Pacific Island neighbors." Because it is looking like the menehune is a Polynesian myth that is not restricted to Hawaii.

Correct. Now:

1) Menehune is a small people who are reported to utilize human technology (Flores?)
2) Sasquatches are reported to be large, hairy creatures that predominately don't utilize human technology

There are no sasquatch reports from the South Pacific Islands (and if you produce "1", I'll whip out Glickman on you).

Secondly, you admit that the menehune is not exclusive to Hawaii, but is a regional lore.

So, I ask yet again:

Why kushtakas on POW Island (and throughout the rest of the Gulf of Alaska), and none on Kodiak Island?

 

[William Parcher]

Hairy Man, here is an old tiki from the Marquesas Islands...

If this artifact had been made by a PNW tribe, would it be used by Bigfooters as support for Bigfoot? What "creature" do you suppose it represents in Polynesia (it's origin)?