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Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

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Lu is indeed a walking encyclopedia. And she is a quite a lady, too, even though she's tough enough to "slug it out" with people here.

Thank you.

You should have seen me when I was living in a tent in 2 1/2 feet of snow and frozen rain in my beloved Washington forestland. I was tougher then, but I didn't have the knowledge I have now.
 
There's current activity in the area, so I'm not too worried about it.
Of? It sounds like you are saying with confidence that it's attributable only to sasquatch. If you are confident, why? This is not the Q&A, BTW.

ETA: The latest part of that would be #1813.
 
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Who says they're using helicopters??

Why would they need to use helicopters?? Because you think they would need to??

That was the professional opinion of deputies at the scene.

Why do you underestimate hoaxers so much Wu??

Why do you think hoaxes explain all this when in circumstances like those they would be so completely unlikely?

Open field, no fences, fresh deep snow, huge stride, no sign of any kind of human activity in the area..................

Aside from the sheer improbability of a hoax in a case like that, who would go to all that trouble? Don't even try to sell me on the idea of an escaped circus clown on stilts with heating devices in the oversized feet to compact the snow and prevent spatter.

Don't call me Wu, Hatter.
 
http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/va-mystery-foot/

Bigfoot's foot?

Bear's foot?

Yes, it's a bear's foot. Maybe.

Does anyone care?

Big discussion over at BFF..
http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=17859

The informed opinion seems to be going with bear ..



Why does an unidentified ( possibly hominid ), body part default to ' Bigfoot ..


It doesn't seem to matter, that it isn't even particularly ' big ' ...


From the article, when it was first thought to possibly be human ..
According to Smith, a member of the medical examiner's office who went to the landfill on Sunday also believed it to be a human foot because it appeared to be about the same size.

Gotta love the bleever mentality ...
 
Sorry, I meant these comments....

I assume you mean this:

....If you mean filter, as in not buying every report that comes in from certain ecological areas, then yes...I definitely have strong feelings on where I don't think it's possible to have a primate population......

.....Alaska - Short growing season for plants. Native populations live almost exclusively off of animal protein (from land and sea)....but what does grow in the growing season is extraordinarily rich and diverse. IF there was a population, I would have to hypothesize some very serious fishing abilities (salmon, etc.), very complex structures, and major migration......

I respectfully disagree with Hairy Man to a certain extent, even though I hold her opinions and experience in high regard. Allow me to address her statement point by point:

....Short growing season for plants....

Alaska is a huge place. It includes the arctic, sub-arctic, and temperate regions. While true that there is a short (but very intense) vegetative growing season in Alaska's northern latitudes, in Southeast Alaska, it's quite a bit longer (in addition to being a land of the "evergreen", like the rest of the PNW temperate rain forest.

....Native populations live almost exclusively off of animal protein (from land and sea)....

Close, but not "exclusive". I've actually studied a bit of the Koyukon culture (interior Alaska), and their dependence on flora is every bit as critical as their dependence on fauna.

And that has little to do with what a sasquatch (or bear, for that matter) might depend on........

....IF there was a population, I would have to hypothesize some very serious fishing abilities (salmon, etc.), very complex structures, and major migration...

On this we agree, although the migration part will be difficult for many to understand. I'm still learning about moose migrations within habitat sub-zones, and how they differ so much from the mass, long distance caribou migrations so many are remotely familiar with.

I'm certain sasquatches in Alaska (and all over the continent) "migrate" within a certain range. Just like bears, they might be found in particular vegetation in the spring, near salmon streams in the summer, in the berries in the fall, in the clam beds at the lowest tides, etc.

"Major" migrations?

No way.

Do you have any thoughts or surmations about what sasquatches adaptive survival strategies might be in Alaska?

I've mentioned this particular book several times both here and at BFF. I found it to be a complete, pleasant surprise when I read it after it was recommended to me by Mrs. Huntster's cousin, who was a teacher out in the Bush for several years, and who is big in anthropology (like Hairy Man).

Check out the reviews; there's not a negative one among them:

Far from being a romantic attempt to pass on the spiritual lore of Native
Americans for a quick fix by others, this is a very serious ethnographic
study of some Alaskan Indians in the Northern Forest area. . . . He has
painstakingly regarded their views of earth, sky, water, mammals and every
creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. He does admire their love of
nature and spirit. Those who see the world through his eyes using their
eyes will likely come away with new respect for the boreal forest and those
who live with it and in it, not against it

Note that review states that "He has painstakingly regarded their views of earth, sky, water, mammals and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

Guess what critter that includes?

This isn't a Southeastern Native culture. These people live just south of the Arctic Circle. And their reference to the "woodsman" isn't just a passing mention. There are many details, descriptions, references to their lifestyle, migration movements, etc.

While I was aware that the Yukon River drainage was a lesser known area within Alaska with reports of sasquatchery, I never held them in high regard until I read this book.

It is certainly food for thought and consideration, however I still maintain that Southeast Alaska is the region of this state where the highest densities of sasquatches is likely to be found, because it is the most likely habitat, it is the most remote, and it is also the area with the most reports.
 
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I'd think a good hoaxer, knowing the limitations of his/hers gorilla suit would produce a short, shaky and slightly out-of focus footage from a distant subject. Stable razor-sharp footage would have less blur, thus allowing better detail definition, increasing the odds of someone noticing flaws in the costume...
 
It is certainly food for thought and consideration, however I still maintain that Southeast Alaska is the region of this state where the highest densities of sasquatches is likely to be found, because it is the most likely habitat, it is the most remote, and it is also the area with the most reports.

Opps...I apologize Huntster, I should have defined better what geographic area I meant by Alaska. I use the terms as defined by cultural areas, such as Great Basin and Southwest. When I was discussing habitat in the PNW, that included southeast Alaska and British Columbia along the coast, so you and I are in complete agreement. What I meant by Alaska is the subartic. I can't find a good map that shows cultural areas, but this will do somewhat (please add the w w w to it cause it won't let me for 6 more posts).

kstrom.net/isk/maps/cultmap.html
 
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I respectfully disagree with Hairy Man to a certain extent, even though I hold her opinions and experience in high regard.
That's quite understandable given that you live in the state to which she's refering and have much experience with the fauna.

You raise two points that equally deserve questions but I'll leave it to you to choose which one you'd like to take.

You seem to indicate a continent-wide dispersal of sasquatches and a limited movement in seeking resources thereof. As one of the hypothetically largest NA mammals (in addition to the 84 identified) how do you think they are able to maintain such a population with varying survival strategies across the continent and at the same time to this point avoid identification?

Or in reference to this question...

Do you have any thoughts or surmations about what sasquatches adaptive survival strategies might be in Alaska?

...it would seem to get an answer I must order, wait for delivery, and then read the book you recommend.

So, in that case, having read the book do you have any thoughts regarding the adaptive survival strategies of sasquatches in the areas of Alaska where you think they might exist?

That sounds like a very interesting read, though.

Again, if you have any questions for the skeptical, please share.
 
Woops! Sorry, Hairy Man. I missed you're post. Please join the Q&A if you're interested and please also remember that it is intended to be a structured dialogue of one question and one provided answer per post (hopefully short and simple). No tricks, no games, just inquiry. Of course I'll give you the same first question I asked Hunt and LAL:

Do you believe without doubt in the existence of sasquatches?

Of course this question is over simple but it is necessary for the format of discussion.

Again, I'm assuming the role of skeptic and any question you might have for one is also necessary.
 
I don't know if they were bored or not, but from talking with one of the prominent investigators of days gone by (when there was no YouTube) and from information from documentaries, books and websites, that's the typical profile (with or without the "bored").

Fine. Have it your way then. All along, it was teenagers who have been the ones who set up the hoaxes that compel you to wake up each day and type a thousand words on the internet in support of Bigfoot.

Even half a mile would be impressive considering how vertical much of it was. And it was a double trackway, not just one.

Hopefully the film is still in the possession of the Vancouver Columbian. One witness is dead. I don't know about the others. I wish I'd asked how they determined the distance. Points on a map would have worked if they knew exactly where they lost it in forest.

So are you saying that the evidence is so sucky for the trackway being seven miles long that you don't really know if that claim is true? Are we back to taking the words of folks as gospel? What about Heironimus?

There's current activity in the area, so I'm not too worried about it.

I know. That's why some Bigfoot skeptics would pay attention to you. You seem to just know things.
 
Woops! Sorry, Hairy Man. I missed you're post. Please join the Q&A if you're interested and please also remember that it is intended to be a structured dialogue of one question and one provided answer per post (hopefully short and simple). No tricks, no games, just inquiry. Of course I'll give you the same first question I asked Hunt and LAL:

Sure. But I'm slow sometimes, got a lot on my plate. Sorry if I missed anything previous but I'm too scared to go back through the pages.

Do you believe without doubt in the existence of sasquatches?

Yes...percentage is about 98%

Of course this question is over simple but it is necessary for the format of discussion.

Again, I'm assuming the role of skeptic and any question you might have for one is also necessary.

Question to you: Why, as a skeptic, do you care what I/huntster/LAL believe? Our opinions are just that, opinions. Without proof, I wouldn't expect you or anyone else for that matter to change your opinions, so why the cursority?
 
Even blurred, there's something there to begin with, isn't there?

Why the hell are you asking me that question? I can't see conclusive evidence that Patty is actively flexing her fingers anywhere in the film. So no; I don't have anything "there to begin with".

I don't know if you've ever done a step forward through the sequence, but even on the nondigitalized versions, there are blurry frames.

Yeah there are blurry frames. But the burden of proof is on you to show that Patty flexes her fingers in spite of there being blurry frames mixed in. It's not too late for you to ditch your support of flexing fingers. I suggest you do that now, or announce that you are dumping the effort. Are you still working on your definitive gif? You won't really lose much ground if you can't show her flexing her fingers. You can still defend Patty as a real Bigfoot even if nobody can show that she flexes them. There ought to be a situation where a real Bigfoot does not flex its fingers during a short filming.

You'd think a good hoaxer would have used a tripod!

Roger Patterson didn't need a tripod to fool you and some others. Even underdogs without tripods, like Patterson, "win" sometimes.
 
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Let me add something to the challenge :

Who can pick out the known dermal detail from the alleged detail,
along with a known artifact detail ?

Do you think it would require a fingerprint expert, or a well papered anthropologist to tell for sure ?

SKIN3.gif


At least one fingerprint expert I know of, has staked his reputation on the conclusion that one of the swatches above, is an impression of dermals from a non-human, North American primate ...
 
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Originally Posted by Huntster
It is certainly food for thought and consideration, however I still maintain that Southeast Alaska is the region of this state where the highest densities of sasquatches is likely to be found, because it is the most likely habitat, it is the most remote, and it is also the area with the most reports.
Opps...I apologize Huntster, I should have defined better what geographic area I meant by Alaska.

I never need an apology from you, oh hairy one!:D

Besides, I agree with the premise of your statement.

BTW, have you had a chance to get Richard Nelson's book, "Make Prayers to the Raven"? As an anthropologist yourself, I can virtually guarantee that you'd find it outstanding.

....What I meant by Alaska is the subartic. I can't find a good map that shows cultural areas, but this will do somewhat....

Not a bad map, but very generalized. The Koyukon (whom Nelson studied) are a "tribe" of the Athapaskan.

In addition to Nelson's work of the early 1970's are the journals of the U.S. Army expeditions to Alaska just prior to the gold rush era and during the Indian Wars. After the purchase of Alaska from Russia and during the early years of the Indian Wars, General Miles, commander of the Army's campaign with the Western Indians, sent several Army expeditions to Alaska (in Lewis and Clark fashion) to Alaska to assess Native culture, warmaking abilities, geologic promise, transportation routes, etc. The journals of Allen, Castner, Abercrombie, etc are absolutely riveting.
 
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