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Gorilla/Orangutan Hybrid

Daryl17

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Just checking out some information on primate evolution and it appears that a Gorilla and Orangutan are closely related, so hypothetically...is a naturally conceived hybrid possible?
 
Hold on - Gorillas are more closely related to us than they are to Orangutans!

Not that that means it's impossible - just thought it might make you think about it.
 
So Daryl, what's this obsession with primates all about?
 
And chimps are closer to us than gorillas.

There's a chromosome number difference though, so any chimp human hybrid would almost certainly be sterile.

You can't help wondering if the experiment may have been tried.

Has George Bush got kids?
 
Gorillas, orangutans and chimps all have the same number of choromosomes, 48, vs Human's 46. So I guess a fertile hybrid amoungst the primates would be possible?

It seems that the fusion of those two chromosomes is what set the humans apart from the chimps. Too bad we don't get chromosomes from fossil remains of humanoids, or we would be able to define the evolutionary split from other primates.
 
I believe that's still largely possible by checking various sets of genes and so on. I believe they tracked one such mutation in humans to demonstrate that Australian aboriginees came from one area and traveled through southern Asia to get there, I forget the details, but there was a trail of populations with this particular mutation all along the way.
 
Speaking of Tigons, I've heard the Ligers are bred for skills in magic. If I can locate a Liger and have it perform some magic, will I qualify for the $1,000,000 or do I have to give it to the Liger?

On a more serious note/question about the fusing of 2 chromosomes. If having the same number of chromosomes is necessary for successful offspring, how did the first fusion come about? Was it necessary for both parents to have a fused chromosome in order for it to be successful?
 
Most likely impossible.
Orangutans are not even in the same family as gorillas, chimps, bonobos, and humans. Phylogenetically, the latter 4 are in the Family Hominidae.
Orangutans are in a separate family, Pongidae.
Previous phenetic (non-cladistic) classifications lumped all apes into the Pongidae based only on plesiomorphic (shared primitive) characters like hair cover and prognathism.
They are less closely related to gorillas than gorillas are to us.
The two families split at least as long ago as 15-20 million years, based on molecular data and fossil evidence.
 
You want me to do what with what?

Actually I'm just chipping in as I saw something about ligers on the discovery channel. There can be a strange interplay of the genes that mean they grow quite large:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liger#Large_size

Different numbers of chromosomes don't necessarily mean hybridization cannot occur, it just usually means the offspring is sterile.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid#Interspecific_hybrids

Edit to add: Oh I forgot the point I was trying to make was that the more varied the parents in branching the less likely you are to have a viable embryo as important genes may no longer work together well. I think that was what desertyeti was hinting at.
 
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Orangutan said:
Different numbers of chromosomes don't necessarily mean hybridization cannot occur, it just usually means the offspring is sterile.
Click to expand...

I understand that part. My main question was regarding the fact that at some point the 48 chromosomes permenantly became 46 (at least in the "human" branch). In order for the offspring not to be sterile, both parents would need to already have the fused chromosomes, so that both had 46. Am I correct in assuming that, or am I missing something? It's been 10 years since I've been in a biology class.
 
Okay, so the second generation had to have brother & sister as mother & father. Stranger things happen in modern society. Aren't we all descendants of "Eve", as shown by mitochondrial genetics?
 
Juustin said:
I understand that part. My main question was regarding the fact that at some point the 48 chromosomes permenantly became 46 (at least in the "human" branch). In order for the offspring not to be sterile, both parents would need to already have the fused chromosomes, so that both had 46. Am I correct in assuming that, or am I missing something? It's been 10 years since I've been in a biology class.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I have the knowledge to answer your question, although I have a laypersons interest in the subject, I do not know enough about the subject to answer the question of chromosomal generation or loss within a species. Although I know you shouldn't assume that humans have finished evolving, (although I suspect on the level of generating new chromosomes or losing some we are talking millions of years). ;)
 
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