trade centre balls in The Guardian

andyandy

anthropomorphic ape
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2011845,00.html

We have to ask who stood to gain the most from the appalling events of 9/11, says Tim Sparke

Tuesday February 13, 2007
The Guardian


George Monbiot's explicit attack on the film Loose Change (A 9/11 conspiracy virus is sweeping the world ..., February 6) has no basis in fact. While we accept that there are flaws in the current version of the film, we stand by its overarching theme that the official "conspiracy" theory of 9/11, constructed in the hours, days, weeks and months after 9/11, is false.

In uncritically endorsing the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) report, Monbiot neglects to say that the collapse mechanism for the entire World Trade Centre building was never documented by NIST - it didn't see it as its job. Additionally, in accepting that the towers collapsed at virtually free-fall speed ("the weight of the collapsing top storeys generated a momentum the rest of the building could not arrest"), Monbiot shows no awareness that this explanation violates the law of conservation of momentum.

Monbiot also appears oblivious to NIST's failure to explain that, although fire could not have melted any steel, there were pools of molten metal under the rubble, and these pools remained molten for weeks after the collapse; that dozens of people, including firefighters, news reporters and fleeing victims, all reported massive explosions; the clear video evidence of explosions taking place; that virtually all the concrete was pulverised into tiny particles; the apparent disintegration of the central steel core; and the destruction of all the evidence from America's biggest crime scene, which was covertly transported to Asian and African shores before any forensic examination could take place.

snip snip enough BS

maybe this has already been posted....suffice to say i'm disapointed the guardian lends this any kind of credibility with a column.....:(
 
We have to ask who stood to gain the most from the appalling events of 9/11, says Tim Sparke.

I hate it when these twoofers want to ask who gained from this.

Whenever there's a tragedy are you supposed to ask who gained?

When that guy was tragically murdered for the Denver Broncos, is one supposed to ask who gained?

Who gained? Well, I guess the funeral home gained. The flower companies gained. The makers of coffins gained. A ditch digger gained. The makers of tombstones gained. Were they all in on it?
 
How many newspapers were publishing Tim Sparke's thoughts on world events before 9/11?

I know one person that gained.
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2011845,00.html



maybe this has already been posted....suffice to say i'm disapointed the guardian lends this any kind of credibility with a column.....:(
I did a little googling on Tim Sparke, and it appears he heads up a documentary production company called Mercury Media, which apparently is the theatrical distributor of Loose Change. That at least explains the oft-repeated idiocy found in his column.
 
maybe this has already been posted....suffice to say i'm disapointed the guardian lends this any kind of credibility with a column.....:(

You have to understand the point of the Response column in The Guardian, it's designed to allow anyone to post a reply in response to a previously published article (in this case to the Monbiot article). At no stage does it act to support any particular hypothesis but merely to allow a reply in mechanism that gives the writer more space than the standard "letters-to-the-editor".

Why not respond to the Response?

BTW It was a crock of *****.
 
The danger of lending credence and authority to ill-informed BS. Everyone's free to spout this crud, but newspapers should be wary of letting them do it "in their name" IMO.
 
The danger of lending credence and authority to ill-informed BS. Everyone's free to spout this crud, but newspapers should be wary of letting them do it "in their name" IMO.

In many ways I agree, but by not allowing a response allows the LC crowd to crow "censorship" and "state-control" blah, blah, blah....

Hopefully, and I could of course be entirely wrong, this sort of response will allow the public not versed in the LC conspiracy debate to see how majestically wrong these people are. Remember, that certainly in the UK, the WTC conspiracy theories don't really have much airing, so allowing these clowns some page space will let people see them for what they are.
 
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I love the idea that Bush instigated 9/11 to legitimise invading Iraq. The WTC collapsed in September 2001. The invasion of Iraq took place in March 2003, 18 months later. One wonders why Dubya didn't have the bombers and troop ships standing by and ready to go by the time the towers had hit the deck.

Why didn't this conspiratorial genius have evidence fabricated that the terrorists worked for Saddam Hussein rather than Osama Bin Laden?

Why didn't the task force immediately "find" the mythical WMD? Surely they could have sneaked a few pounds of U-235 or vials of anthrax spores in with them?

On the other hand, the 7/7 bombings in London (2005) and the 3/11 bombings in Madrid (2004) were well after the invasion was underway. Oh, and for your information, we're meant to believe those were put-up jobs, too.

What I find so amusing is that these conspirators are meant to be so fiendishly clever that nobody suspects, and they can ensure that nobody ever, ever talks. However, they're stupid enough to leave supposedly blatant and gaping clues that the eagle-eyed woosters can leap on.
 
The danger of lending credence and authority to ill-informed BS. Everyone's free to spout this crud, but newspapers should be wary of letting them do it "in their name" IMO.

Again you have to consider the context it was published in.

As Nero pointed out,the "Response" space in the Guardian is clearly delineated as the personal views of someone one one side of a particular issue, responding to criticism already published by the Guardian. The affiliation of the respondant is clearly identified - in this case as the Executive Producer of Loose Change Final Cut.

The mere fact that he is being published in this section tells the reader his views have been attacked previously by writers published in the Guardian, and allows new readers to pick up on the issue.

I think the "Response" section is a good thing. It allows both sides of a controversial issue to air their views, and allows complete idiots to expose themselves for what they are. This is what happened this time, IMO.
 
How many newspapers were publishing Tim Sparke's thoughts on world events before 9/11?

I know one person that gained.

As I've posted elsewhere on this forum, I met my wife that day, in an Internet chat as I was desperately searching for news. So I gained. Does that mean I was in on it? If so, the NWO owes me lotsa checks.
 
Who benefits?

I hate it when these twoofers want to ask who gained from this.

Whenever there's a tragedy are you supposed to ask who gained?

When that guy was tragically murdered for the Denver Broncos, is one supposed to ask who gained?

Who gained? Well, I guess the funeral home gained. The flower companies gained. The makers of coffins gained. A ditch digger gained. The makers of tombstones gained. Were they all in on it?

Some of the biggest beneficiaries seem to be CTers...remember that these guys didn't see the video on 9/11 and suddenly become Troofers...they all had pre-existing theories on who runs the government, and penknives to grind against that government.

They simply "analyzed" the situation, which means they read each other's blogs, e-mails, and web pages, and developed a theory that would fit their preconceived notion that the whole thing was a government/NWO plot, and manipulated the facts to suit their theory and marketing campaign.
 
Again you have to consider the context it was published in.

As Nero pointed out,the "Response" space in the Guardian is clearly delineated as the personal views of someone one one side of a particular issue, responding to criticism already published by the Guardian. The affiliation of the respondant is clearly identified - in this case as the Executive Producer of Loose Change Final Cut.

The mere fact that he is being published in this section tells the reader his views have been attacked previously by writers published in the Guardian, and allows new readers to pick up on the issue.

I think the "Response" section is a good thing. It allows both sides of a controversial issue to air their views, and allows complete idiots to expose themselves for what they are. This is what happened this time, IMO.

I understand your point, but i think that there should be limits - governed by at least some level of journalistic integrity - even within the "right to respond" column. That is to say, if it's a disingenous piece merely being used as a vehicle to spread falsities and in this case to further this guy's bankbala...ahem "cause" then editorial process should be sufficient to decide that such a response is not appropriate for publication.
Goodness, should i have a right to a published response to an article exposing anti-semitism in Europe, in which i expound details about a modern day protocols Jewish agenda?

i've written a letter to The Guardian for what good it'll do.
The email is
letters@guardian.co.uk
 
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"the destruction of all the evidence from America's biggest crime scene, which was covertly transported to Asian and African shores before any forensic examination could take place."

I saw something on the Discovery Channel last week about the towers; about a forensic investigator whose job was to look through the mountain of wrecked metal and get data on why the towers came down.

Which I suppose means that all the evidence was covertly destroyed and removed to Africa, before any forensic examination could take place, except for the forensic examination by that one forensics guy, and the Discovery Channel documentary film crew.

Good job they got in there and got filming before all the covert shipping got underway... Discovery Channel, worth every cent.
 
I love the idea that Bush instigated 9/11 to legitimise invading Iraq. The WTC collapsed in September 2001. The invasion of Iraq took place in March 2003, 18 months later. One wonders why Dubya didn't have the bombers and troop ships standing by and ready to go by the time the towers had hit the deck.

Why didn't this conspiratorial genius have evidence fabricated that the terrorists worked for Saddam Hussein rather than Osama Bin Laden?

Why didn't the task force immediately "find" the mythical WMD? Surely they could have sneaked a few pounds of U-235 or vials of anthrax spores in with them?

On the other hand, the 7/7 bombings in London (2005) and the 3/11 bombings in Madrid (2004) were well after the invasion was underway. Oh, and for your information, we're meant to believe those were put-up jobs, too.

What I find so amusing is that these conspirators are meant to be so fiendishly clever that nobody suspects, and they can ensure that nobody ever, ever talks. However, they're stupid enough to leave supposedly blatant and gaping clues that the eagle-eyed woosters can leap on.

These are the same basic simple things I cant get past before we start getting to the idiocy of CD or star wars beams or the new 'Magically Healing Steel Columns II "

I think if you can especially convince yourself this part is plausable:
What I find so amusing is that these conspirators are meant to be so fiendishly clever that nobody suspects, and they can ensure that nobody ever, ever talks. However, they're stupid enough to leave supposedly blatant and gaping clues that the eagle-eyed woosters can leap on.

You can believe Sith lords blew up the tower with unknown technology.
 
"Use The Farce, Luke!"
"I'm flying into this tower full-throttle. That ought to keep those Truthers off my back!"
"WAH-HOO! You're all clear, kid! Now let's just pull this tower and go home!":)
 
oh british journalism at it's finest. i remember watching a louis theroux episode where he follows a head of a uk newspapers paper (mirror?). the guy didn't like his questions so he essentially wrote a bs story by telling him to meet a friend of his at a strip club then payed the girls to dance with him etc. then slandered him in the paper the next day by saying he went wild and crazy. louis continued the show normally and it wasn't taken hugely seriously but it shows the state of mind of uk journalism; they don't take reporting the truth seriously, they'll report something incorrectly just to prove a point to one person.
 
oh british journalism at it's finest. i remember watching a louis theroux episode where he follows a head of a uk newspapers paper (mirror?). the guy didn't like his questions so he essentially wrote a bs story by telling him to meet a friend of his at a strip club then payed the girls to dance with him etc. then slandered him in the paper the next day by saying he went wild and crazy. louis continued the show normally and it wasn't taken hugely seriously but it shows the state of mind of uk journalism; they don't take reporting the truth seriously, they'll report something incorrectly just to prove a point to one person.

yes that was the Mirror - it was actually Max Clifford the PA guru he was tracking - but he arranged with his contacts at the Mirror to stitch Louis up. The tabloids are called the gutter press for a reason :)
The fact that this was in one of the broadsheets is more surprising. I got a reply to my email saying that my complaint and a few others along the same lines had been passed onto the editor....
although that's probably a bog-standard reply they give to everyone....:)
 
Again you have to consider the context it was published in.

As Nero pointed out,the "Response" space in the Guardian is clearly delineated as the personal views of someone one one side of a particular issue, responding to criticism already published by the Guardian. The affiliation of the respondant is clearly identified - in this case as the Executive Producer of Loose Change Final Cut.

The mere fact that he is being published in this section tells the reader his views have been attacked previously by writers published in the Guardian, and allows new readers to pick up on the issue.

I think the "Response" section is a good thing. It allows both sides of a controversial issue to air their views, and allows complete idiots to expose themselves for what they are. This is what happened this time, IMO.


Do you think the casual "surfer" (let alone prejudiced CTist) pays the slightest attention to such subteties as context? I actually thought at first that this was editorially "Guardian" when I followed the link, scan-read the article, checked the IE title bar, and knee-jerked my way back to the thread to complain bitterly about the "bloody lefties" at the Guardian. I actually had to do a rapid edit of my original post, to avoid looking like a dolt.

I'm no genius, but if I, as a Brit who is somewhat aware of 9/11 conspiracies, UK newspapers, and news websites, came to a conclusion that was a Guardian article, then I can be pretty safe in speculating that other people who are less familiar in any of those areas also made that incorrect assumption.

As andyandy said, I'm all for free (informed!) comment, but there are plenty of venues for that on the internet without lending media credence to total BS like Loose Change by hosting it in article format on your servers.

Not to mention that this guy is basically touting his own product!
 
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