Ancient Egyptian Had Airplanes???

[Shadow]

So I was watching a program on the History Channel, Ancient Discoveries: Cars & Planes and it was discussing speculations of ancient cultures (Egypt in particular) possesing the knowledge of aerodynamics and perhaps the ability to fly through the air.

These beliefs were based off a discovery in King Tuts tomb that was a small wooden bird. When the bird was tested in a wind tunnel it created lift 4x the wieght of the bird, enough for it soar high in the air. It only comes to mind that if they were aware of the dynamics of flight how long would it take until one adventerous Egyptian would attempt to construct a device to allow men to fly. Basing a civilzation around the Gods and Heavens, any Pharoah would be more than willing to give forth the funds to awe thier subjects and prove thier divine right to rule through flight.

So I wanted to ask has anyone else heard of sources citing ancient flight in actual cultures and not atlantis?

 

[Checkmite]

It is a TOY GLIDER.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

So I wanted to ask has anyone else heard of sources citing ancient flight in actual cultures and not atlantis?

I don't have any references (maybe Wikipedia will have something) but Hindu apologists have been claiming for decades that either the Upanishads or the Rig Veda describes flying machines that analogize to airplanes or gliders.

I've also seen some experimentation with hot air balloons with ancient materials availible to some cultures (Egypt and Peru IIRC).

It is a TOY GLIDER.

Bolded the really important part.

 

[Shadow]

It only comes to mind that if they were aware of the dynamics of flight how long would it take until one adventerous Egyptian would attempt to construct a device to allow men to fly.

I'm aware that it was a toy. I'll look into the other information regarding hot air ballons, thank you.

 

[richardm]

If you look at the history of mankind there were many, many attempts to build working gliders. da Vinci possibly built one that worked - or worked until it would have stalled into the ground killing the pilot. Killing the pilot was a theme of manned flight until the late 19th Century when Otto Lilienthal started to solve some of the problems.

If the ancient Egyptians had been able to do it they would certainly have told us about it. Toy gliders simply do not scale to human size well, sorry.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Everyone's always going on about how great the Egyptians were. They weren't so hot. Pyramids? Yawn. Now, if the pyramids were the other way up, and balanced on the pointy bit, that would be much more impressive.

As it is, they seem like an awful waste of resources just to keep razors sharp.

 

[Shadow]

If the ancient Egyptians had been able to do it they would certainly have told us about it. Toy gliders simply do not scale to human size well, sorry.

Well actually, during the show they cited some unknown hieroglyphs recently found that "appeared" to resemble a plane, helicopter, boat, & submarine...I didn't think they looked like any of those things but I'm no fancy archeologist.

As for the toy scaling up, they actually put it through a flight simulator that tests fighter jet designs and it flew quite well on the air streams with a human pilot. I don't know how he was able to steer it but then again I'm not sure how gliders work, maybe he shifted his body weight...or something.

 

[Checkmite]

Well actually, during the show they cited some unknown hieroglyphs recently found that "appeared" to resemble a plane, helicopter, boat, & submarine...I didn't think they looked like any of those things but I'm no fancy archeologist.

As for the toy scaling up, they actually put it through a flight simulator that tests fighter jet designs and it flew quite well on the air streams with a human pilot. I don't know how he was able to steer it but then again I'm not sure how gliders work, maybe he shifted his body weight...or something.

Maybe there was no pilot, because it's just a little toy glider.

And you are correct, though, about the heiroglyphs not looking like plane, helicopters, and boats. The program was wrong in stating that the heiroglyphs were unknown, however.

 

[geni]

Well actually, during the show they cited some unknown hieroglyphs recently found that "appeared" to resemble a plane, helicopter, boat, & submarine...I didn't think they looked like any of those things but I'm no fancy archeologist.

http://www.catchpenny.org/abydos.html

 

[SimonD]

So I was watching a program on the History Channel, Ancient Discoveries: Cars & Planes and it was discussing speculations of ancient cultures (Egypt in particular) possesing the knowledge of aerodynamics and perhaps the ability to fly through the air.?

Humans have been using the laws of aerodynamics for centuries. The boomarang, spear and arrows are all good examples. While the math may have been beyond them, they could still see cause and effect. So I am sure that toy gliders being built by ancient people is not completly unbelievable

So I wanted to ask has anyone else heard of sources citing ancient flight in actual cultures and not atlantis?

I think it was "Chariots of the Gods" or "Unexplained" (the book based on the TV series hosted by Leonard Nimoy) had pictures of "Delta Wing" looking craft (small artifacts) dug up in South America

(Okay - they crap books to quote from, but had some cool photos...and when you are 13.....)

 

[Shadow]

Maybe there was no pilot, because it's just a little toy glider.

I was referencing the pilot in the flight simulator.

Geni,

Yup, those are exactly the hieroglyphs they were talking about and trying to make seem mind boggling. Fantasy sells.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

http://www.catchpenny.org/abydos.html

I know there are a couple of different sites that debunk the Abydos heiroglyphs, but the one that tingled my skeptisense from the first moment I ever saw them was the "land speeder" one. It just seemed insane to me that the ancient Egyptians not only had Apache helicopters and blimps/submarines 4,000 years ago, but also had a device from a movie released in 1977 which has no technological precident or peer other than in science fiction.

 

[Bikewer]

There was quite a bit of this sort of thing included in the "Afrocentrism" thing. I seem to recall seeing children's books with illustration of "black Egyptians" buzzing around in what looked like hang-gliders; all based on the little wooden bird model.
About as great a leap as anything Von Danniken was up to.

 

[Checkmite]

I don't have any references (maybe Wikipedia will have something) but Hindu apologists have been claiming for decades that either the Upanishads or the Rig Veda describes flying machines that analogize to airplanes or gliders.

In his book The Bermuda Triangle - and at least one of its sequels, The Devil's Triangle (which refers to an area in the Sea of Japan), woo author Charles Berlitz for some reason feels compelled to launch into a digression about the ancients having marvellous technology. Berlitz sites passages of the Mahabharata and Ramayana as evidence that the ancient Indians had not only airplanes, but rocket-powered fighter jets, missiles, and nuclear weapons. The Egyptians weren't as advanced, apparently; the most they had was the toy glider and electricity - as evidenced by bas reliefs depicting light bulbs (Okay, I'll give Berlitz that one - they're not really light bulbs of course, but it doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to see light bulbs there).

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Berlitz sites passages of the Mahabharata and Ramayana...

Ah thank you. I was citing scriptures not the epic poetry I was looking for. I think there's a DVD out of a full performance of the Mahabarata - it's like 12 hours long.

(Okay, I'll give Berlitz that one - they're not really light bulbs of course, but it doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to see light bulbs there).

No! Everyone knows the cartouches actually depict neon signs!

 

[SimonD]

Ah thank you. I was citing scriptures not the epic poetry I was looking for. I think there's a DVD out of a full performance of the Mahabarata - it's like 12 hours long.

There is. It was on SBS (a little like PBS or BBC4) television once here in Australia.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahabharat-Harish-Bhimani/dp/B0000BV1J9

All 900 minutes of it. It's well crafted film, but you got to watch it in stages

 

[Big Les]

Is it not simply a representation of a bird? It may never even have been intended to glide. Even if it did glide, the cognitive and technological leap required to turn the idea into a Wright flyer, several thousand years early, is enormous. Another case of the imposition of today's subsequent knowledge, priorities, values etc, onto a past culture that most of us would struggle to integrate into. Think about the steam engine; the ancient Greeks actually built something only one step removed from the invention that changed the world forever in the 19th Century. But they didn't see, and had no reason to see, the potential for advantage and change in converting an amusing toy into an industrial revolution. It takes the right circumstances, cultural and other pressures, and visionary individuals, to do something like this. And it rarely happens right away; "shoulders of giants" and all that.

 

[Checkmite]

Well, the only thing that gets in the way of the whole "bird" idea is the thing's tail, which is vertical - birds don't have vertical tails. So I generally concede that it's meant to be a toy glider - though truth be told, it really doesn't fly as well as some people say it does. The wing is not centered on the body, and the tail fin is skewed and far, far too small to keep the plane stable in flight. My guess is that this "History" Channel documentary had to take dramatic liberties with their model's design before they could achieve the sort of lift they claim.

Some people seem to think it may have functioned as a weathervane, which would work I guess.

It's important to note, however, that (for instance) when I was 9 years old I was an expert paper airplane builder. I could build slow, circling gliders, and fast skinny dart planes. I could even make gliders that (kinda sorta) resembled old warbird fighters - though those couldn't really fly that well. But I never would've been able to build a real, self-thrusting airplane. Consider this when pondering whether ancient Egyptian toy gliders really mean anything.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Well, the only thing that gets in the way of the whole "bird" idea is the thing's tail, which is vertical - birds don't have vertical tails.

You are mistaken here: several species of birds lift their tails to poop.

I'd have thought a big fan of hieroglyphs would remember the sign atet ra ptahmaat, or "Sacred Pooping Bird". It represented tranquility, harmony of the soul, and the need to watch where you sit at sidewalk cafes. Pharaoh Tittattut had the Sacred Pooping Bird all up ons his tomb, and even Wallis Budge has to remark that he'd never seen a finer example of pooping birds wrought in gold. Then he nicked it.

 

[Checkmite]

You are mistaken here: several species of birds lift their tails to poop.

No, I mean vertical as in, "shaped like a fish tail fin", not merely pointing upwards.