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NIST engineer John Gross interview

Most obvious scenario is not alway right, and what is wrong with want rock solid invesgation that would prove with out doubt offical story right?
The investigation done by NIST is rock solid. NIST's job isn't to "prove" the official story beyond doubt. That is what conspiracy theorists want, but no one cares. It's a waste of time trying to convince undereducated people with mental illness of what reality is and what science supports it.

Again, NIST had a job. They did it. Rock solid.

Why would you ignore important aspect...
Because it's not important.

you have no grounds to say that it is right cause you have no scienific backing. All im asking is scienfic explanation on way it would fall. Is that asking to much is it?
No, it's not too much ask. It just depends on who you ask. It's not NIST's job though. NIST isn't in charge of convincing everyone of everything and every possible question they can have, no matter how ignorant.

Ask a physics teacher. Maybe they can help.
 
You must not be an engineer. Most engineers need no one to explain that the aircraft impact and fires destroyed the towers. No extra input is needed. Most engineers can calculate the energy involved and with what they saw on 9/11 come up with what you saw on 9/11. What you call the official story. I have not seen an official story document yet.

This is why only 0.00067 percent of all engineers, of all kinds are in the idiot parade of truthers.

Which means over 99.99 percent of US engineers understand 9/11 and have not pursued the Pulitzer Prize that eludes the expert truthers in the movement of lies.

To summarized; intelligent people could independently confirm what you call the official story without government supplied work. Can you? (I am an idiot, and I can. Where does that leave you?)

Wow that was great argument. Consider this im not hear to talk about what lead up to collaspe. I know you prob used this argument about thousand time and it makes you feel real smart doesnt it? But guess what im not hear to question that weaking of steal could of lead to collapse. Yes i believe that was possible. Im not questioning engineers who all agree. Im just talking about the actual collapse it self and why it has not been studied against proposed events that lead to collapse of towers. Yet again i will explain to you of course government "if" they did
do 9/11 they would of had explentation with scienific backing for how building gave out. Im afraid government isnt that stupid. But hell they think ur very nieve cause you believe what you are told hook line and sinker..
 
But guess what im not hear to question that weaking of steal could of lead to collapse. Yes i believe that was possible. Im not questioning engineers who all agree.

Good.

Im just talking about the actual collapse it self and why it has not been studied

Because it's scientifically uninteresting and there is nothing to be learned from it. It's too chaotic, too difficult to model, and even if it was done successfully, there'd be nothing to learn or gain from it.

Yet again i will explain to you of course government "if" they did
do 9/11 they would of had explentation with scienific backing for how building gave out

Your claim that the government could have "fooled" an entire industry and an entire field of academics is prepostorous and insulting.
 
Please dont bother twisting words. You cant not provide any resonable answer. Yes ur good at attacking my character by saying im uneducated. Or saying my response is not good enough for you. You making alot assumptions like no need to investage because its obvious wow did you just steal that of John Gross. Gee you really do think for ur self dont you.. Most obvious scenario is not alway right, and what is wrong with want rock solid invesgation that would prove with out doubt offical story right? Why would you ignore important aspects becuase it obvious (in ur opion) which is just pure speculation, you have no grounds to say that it is right cause you have no scienific backing. All im asking is scienfic explanation on way it would fall. Is that asking to much is it?

You could use E=mgh for building stored energy.

You could use E=1/2(m)(v)(v) for aircraft impact energy.

You could look up 10,000 gallons of jet fuel to find the heat energy of the fuel is equal to 315 tons of TNT.

Each aircraft impact was bigger than the 93 bombing energy.

That is a start. All the numbers are available online.

There are numerous CT approved papers that have numbers but are off by just a little. One comes to mind it says the initial collapse of the WTC towers was not enough energy to start global collapse. Oops they were wrong but still posted the paper. They said they needed so much energy and the energy available was 10 to 20 percent short. Oops they were off by 20 percent. You could start with that paper and then correct it and be satisfied.

http://worldtradecentertruth.com/articles/Journal_5_PTransferRoss.pdf

Then you need to search for more studies and then check the number yourself. I found this paper to be wrong by about 20 percent. What do you think? Would you trust this paper with your life?
 
Wow that was great argument. Consider this im not hear to talk about what lead up to collaspe. I know you prob used this argument about thousand time and it makes you feel real smart doesnt it? But guess what im not hear to question that weaking of steal could of lead to collapse. Yes i believe that was possible. Im not questioning engineers who all agree. Im just talking about the actual collapse it self and why it has not been studied against proposed events that lead to collapse of towers. Yet again i will explain to you of course government "if" they did
do 9/11 they would of had explentation with scienific backing for how building gave out. Im afraid government isnt that stupid. But hell they think ur very nieve cause you believe what you are told hook line and sinker..

I was talking about the collapse. You can explain the collapse with energy. I still do not need government numbers. I can use off the shelf numbers. Easy to find data on the topics of 9/11.

You missed it but I have already posted an energy approach to prove global collapse as possible; as it did fall on 9/11.

It is great to have theory proved by an event. Energy on 9/11 confirms simple calculations. Using papers published in real peer reviewed Journals help too.

You could use CT papers to debunk CT theories. http://worldtradecentertruth.com/ This is a fake peer reviewed journal on 9/11 topics. This is a CT site. But you could start here on you quest. If you can not find problems with this work you may be wasting your time supporting lies about 9/11 here.
 
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GMotives, you are way over your head here. Please stop and take the time to read the material we're referring you to.

NIST NCSTAR 1-6 section 9.3.3:
Failure of the south wall in WTC 1 and east wall in WTC 2 caused the portion of the building above to tilt in the direction of the failed wall. The tilting was accompanied by a downward movement. The story immediately below the stories in which the columns failed was not able to arrest this initial movement as evidenced by videos from several vantage points.

The structure below the level of collapse initiation offered minimal resistance to the falling building mass at and above the impact zone. The potential energy released by the downward movement of the large building mass far exceeded the capacity of the intact structure below to absorb that through energy of deformation.

Since the stories below the level of collapse initiation provided little resistance to the tremendous energy released by the falling building mass, the building section above came down essentially in free fall, as seen in videos. As the stories below sequentially failed, the falling mass increased, further increasing the demand on the floors below, which were unable to arrest the moving mass.

The falling mass of the building compressed the air ahead of it, much like the action of a piston, forcing material, such as smoke and debris, out the windows as seen in several videos.

NIST found no corroborating evidence for alternative hypotheses suggesting that the WTC towers were brought down by controlled demolition using explosives planted prior to Septrmber 11, 2001. NIST also did not find any evidence that missiles were fired at or hit the towers. Instead, photographs and videos from several angles clearly showed that the collapse initiated at the fire and impact floors and that the collapse progressed from the initiating floors downward, until the dust clouds obscured the view.

NIST FAQ:
2. Why did NIST not consider a “controlled demolition” hypothesis with matching computer modeling and explanation as it did for the “pancake theory” hypothesis? A key critique of NIST’s work lies in the complete lack of analysis supporting a “progressive collapse” after the point of collapse initiation and the lack of consideration given to a controlled demolition hypothesis.

NIST conducted an extremely thorough three-year investigation into what caused the WTC towers to collapse, as explained in NIST’s dedicated Web site, http://wtc.nist.gov. This included consideration of a number of hypotheses for the collapses of the towers.

Some 200 technical experts—including about 85 career NIST experts and 125 leading experts from the private sector and academia—reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than 1,000 people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they began to collapse.

Based on this comprehensive investigation, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires (which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius) significantly weakened the floors and columns with dislodged fireproofing to the point where floors sagged and pulled inward on the perimeter columns. This led to the inward bowing of the perimeter columns and failure of the south face of WTC 1 and the east face of WTC 2, initiating the collapse of each of the towers. Both photographic and video evidence—as well as accounts from the New York Police Department aviation unit during a half-hour period prior to collapse—support this sequence for each tower.

NIST’s findings do not support the “pancake theory” of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system—that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns—consisted of a grid of steel “trusses” integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram below). Instead, the NIST investigation showed conclusively that the failure of the inwardly bowed perimeter columns initiated collapse and that the occurrence of this inward bowing required the sagging floors to remain connected to the columns and pull the columns inwards. Thus, the floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phenomenon.

NIST’s findings also do not support the “controlled demolition” theory since there is conclusive evidence that:

* the collapse was initiated in the impact and fire floors of the WTC towers and nowhere else, and;

* the time it took for the collapse to initiate (56 minutes for WTC 2 and 102 minutes for WTC 1) was dictated by (1) the extent of damage caused by the aircraft impact, and (2) the time it took for the fires to reach critical locations and weaken the structure to the point that the towers could not resist the tremendous energy released by the downward movement of the massive top section of the building at and above the fire and impact floors.

Video evidence also showed unambiguously that the collapse progressed from the top to the bottom, and there was no evidence (collected by NIST, or by the New York Police Department, the Port Authority Police Department or the Fire Department of New York) of any blast or explosions in the region below the impact and fire floors as the top building sections (including and above the 98th floor in WTC 1 and the 82nd floor in WTC 2) began their downward movement upon collapse initiation.


For an in-depth look at this subject, I recommend structural engineer Zdenek Bazant's paper on the progressive collapse of tall buildings, with a focus on the WTC tower collapses: www.civil.northwestern.edu/people/bazant/PDFs/Papers/ProgressiveCollapseWTC-6-23-2006.pdf
 
Good.



Because it's scientifically uninteresting and there is nothing to be learned from it. It's too chaotic, too difficult to model, and even if it was done successfully, there'd be nothing to learn or gain from it.



Your claim that the government could have "fooled" an entire industry and an entire field of academics is prepostorous and insulting.

There is no need to fool. Every aspect as i said "if" done by government would of been planned, they would made sure that explenation would be backed by out side interests. You really cant understand that can you? There was no need to fool them if their theroy was plausible. No other investigations where done so its hardly any engineers or academics fault.

Yet I still hear no scientific explanation for molten steel or way in which building would collapse with government explanation in mind. Should these important facts be addressed? Im sorry im not so easily persuaded as you all seem to be. I want no doubt to be left, before i make accurate decision on what happened. There is alot motive and direct links that point to government this alone should be enough to warrant all questions be addressed (that are reasonable). Im sorry but molten steal not be addressed is worrying concern for me..

edit: Gravy I have read over that before (what you have posted). This alone is not concrete explanition for how it would collapse. im reading over link you gave me ill get back to you that one.
 
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Wow that was great argument. Consider this im not hear to talk about what lead up to collaspe. I know you prob used this argument about thousand time and it makes you feel real smart doesnt it? But guess what im not hear to question that weaking of steal could of lead to collapse. Yes i believe that was possible. Im not questioning engineers who all agree. Im just talking about the actual collapse it self and why it has not been studied against proposed events that lead to collapse of towers. Yet again i will explain to you of course government "if" they did
do 9/11 they would of had explentation with scienific backing for how building gave out. Im afraid government isnt that stupid. But hell they think ur very nieve cause you believe what you are told hook line and sinker..
You're definitely a sock, and you're stunting in your posts by trying to appear stupider than you actually may be. You are only pretending that your spelling and grammar are atrocious, in a feeble attempt to mask your identity. Your cover is now officially blown.
 
Im sorry but molten steal not be addressed is worrying concern for me..
It's "steel," and there's no evidence of it being molten. As NIST says, its possible that conditions within the piles could have been hot enough to melt steel: they were certainly hot enough to melt aluminum. However, there is zero evidence of molten steel. There are only anecdotal reports by people who said "steel," although that material was never tested.

If you have another hypothesis about molten metals in the piles, let's here it, and provide references to the science that backs your claims. Fair enough?
 
There is no need to fool. Every aspect as i said "if" done by government would of been planned, they would made sure that explenation would be backed by out side interests. You really cant understand that can you? There was no need to fool them if their theroy was plausible. No other investigations where done so its hardly any engineers or academics fault..

Wrong; Many other independent investigations were done. (one cited by Gravy)

Many schools, many professors, engineers, and scientists have done papers; you know investigations.

Businesses have done investigations and are selling that information in the form of improved buildings and design.

Many investigations, too many to find on my own.

You are wrong on this point. Others have investigated the WTC. What is sad the idiots who claim to be experts are telling lies instead of doing an investigation. Funny world of CT experts will not tell the truth; why?
 
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iv been browsing here for a while

Obviously you haven't. I suggest you do some more browsing around here, this subject has been discussed time and time again.

Start with the stickies and here:http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/local_links.php?catid=18

I was really disturbed to see lack of study and investagtion that was done.

You mean this?:

888645ceb043ba0e5.jpg


I suggest you start reading now.
 
Guys, GMotives has already made up his mind. He came to this forum not to be informed, but to argue. He isn't willing to question his own beliefs because they are not about science..this is about politics and the new religion known as the 9-11 Truth Movemant.
 
GMotives, your bringing nothing to the table that hasn't been addressed 100 times.

Molten metal does not equal molten steel. Most people who saw molten metal can not differentiate between molten aluminun and molten steel.

No explosive were seen. The FDNY is not apart of the conspiracy and firefighters would go public with this.
 
Guys, GMotives has already made up his mind. He came to this forum not to be informed, but to argue. He isn't willing to question his own beliefs because they are not about science..this is about politics and the new religion known as the 9-11 Truth Movemant.
And he's a sock. So cute how he tried to pretend to be a newbie by purposely misspelling and hacking the grammar.

As to who: Maybe it's The Kooger? Who was slam-dunked a bit earlier...
 
Anyone who types "ur" doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. That's my opinion on the matter.

Shouldn't they at least differentiate between using it as "you are" and "your"?

I suggest "u'r" for the former and "ur" for the latter.
 
Are you kidding? that makes no sense what so ever.. So ur saying for argument sake that if a car had its tire blown out due to faults in the tire and the car flips over 10 times while doing speeds of 10miles hr. Since we know that the tire was blown out due to faults in tire (this has been proven by experts), there is no need to examine why car reacted the way it did? Just because this theory can explain why car has crashed? even if it doesnt back up way the car has reacted? like:car speed, flips and etc?

Im sorry but for investagtion to be proven to be 100% right you have to explain the event completely not just one aspect.

Car crashes and airplane crashes are (relatively) common and have significant consequences on the people inside. So the behaviour of cars and planes during a crash has been extensivly studied, leading to improved designs like crumple zones. Also, there have been studies and improvements on how to evacuate people out of a crashed plane. Buidling collapses are quite rare, and once started, there is not much anyone can do. So there is no need to study how the collapse occured, (after initiation).

However, I am sure that people responsible for building evacuation procedures would have taken attempted to learn some lessons out of Sep 11.
 
Ok let's play "Who's noticed the new trend?"

What's with the new socks/LCers/CTers coming on here and starting off by claiming "I take neither side". They then turn out to spout the same claims we've heard 10,000,000 times and pretend it should all be new to us.
 

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