Black in America

You aren't looking hard enough [for "Eurocentrism" in the curriculum].

That's the problem with the "eurocentrism" argument: if you find examples in a book, it proves the book is "eurocentric". If you don't, well, you just haven't looked hard enough.

So, just who is this "our" you speak of, hmmmm? Sounds pretty damned Eurocentric to me, and I think you just disproved your own point.

What's wrong with being Eurocentric? It is obvious that Europe's culture--the heritage of the ancient Greeks--is superior in its achievements to other cultures. The wrongs you speak of--slavery, bigotry, and so on--were, of course, committed by the Europeans, but they were committed by everybody else. What makes Europeans special is that they are the only people who ever thought slavery and bigotry are wrong.

Democracy, human rights, the enlightenment, the scientific revolution, and so on are purely European in origin. Socrates was explaining to people that justice is absolute and not due to local customes or the rules' whim when, in Egypt, "justice" was defined as "what Pharaoh loves".

The USA is European not because there were are blacks or chinese in the USA, but because it was established politically, not on the princples of tribal rule like in Africa, or on the principles of an absolute Emperor who is half-divine like in China, but on the principles of the Enlightenment--those of Locke and Rousseau, Pericles and Socrates; and these people were European.

So, three cheers for Eurocentrism.
 
I would really love to hear "I dont see you as a woman, I see you as a person, same as me", and NO, I wouldnt think that means they see me as a man.

Same applies as my comment on race.

Some things will always make you different. You won't get testicular or prstate cancer and I won't get breast or ovarian cancer. (Hopefully neither of us will get any, but differences DO exist.)

Whatever your reasoning, we cannot all be turned into androgynous, coffee-coloured clones.
 
Give Slingblade a break, Claus. She's had a harder life than you'll ever have, but she has the intelligence and strength to fight back every time.

I can't speak for Slingblade, nor do I support Claus' argument, but most people I know of who had a hard life (and I know quite a few) find it highly insulting and patronizing when, as occassionally happens, someone wants to "go easy on them" out of pity for their plight.
 
I read it. I repeat, I was making no comment on the correctness or otherwise of Claus point of view. What I did observe was a forum member who was distressed.

See here:
...
I dont agree with claus much but I would say he was spot on, and he wasnt particularily mean to slingblade, she just took it really badly. Certainly multiple people in this thread have been meaner to CF than he has ever been in this thread to slingblade.

Sorry, but once again, just because you've had a hard life doesn't grant you immunity to any criticism. Claus wasn't being mean, Claus was being hard. She doesn't get immunity from that.

Yeah, that's a great idea!

Samoan and other Polynesian people get Bright's Disease with far greater regularity than European people. With Polynesians making up over 25% of the population, this is an ongoing medical issue for NZ.

Thanks to adopting your "f### 'em" rule, we're going to cut funding to specific programs and initiatives set up to help Polynesians with the disease and their families.

Very sensible.

At what point did I say, "**** 'em"? You're talking about a population with a disease. Yes, a larger proportion of a group is subject to it and they should be helped. I just think that we do put far more emphasis than is necessary on a person's skin color.

:( Sorry but I reported this post.

Dude, as much as it goes against my instincts to defend AUP, you're way out of line. Disagree with him if you want, but your viscous attack is unwarranted.

As is well within your rights, but hey, if a.u.p. would like, he can feel free to play the knight and try to defend me against that with my hard life.

I stand my words. If that's how he sees it, he can do exactly as I said so far as I'm concerned.
 
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I can't speak for Slingblade, nor do I support Claus' argument, but most people I know of who had a hard life (and I know quite a few) find it highly insulting and patronizing when, as occassionally happens, someone wants to "go easy on them" out of pity for their plight.

Can I report you for stealing my words but removing the bile from them? Because that is exactly my problem with a.u.p.'s post. Sure, I could have said that without the bad words, but I prefer to post as honestly as possible and I honestly believe that if you think or act in that manner, you can, in fact, do as I instructed.

And now AS's thread has been completely hijacked.
 
Same applies as my comment on race.

Some things will always make you different. You won't get testicular or prstate cancer and I won't get breast or ovarian cancer. (Hopefully neither of us will get any, but differences DO exist.)

Whatever your reasoning, we cannot all be turned into androgynous, coffee-coloured clones.

so what, would my cancer be worse than yours? why would it matter?

who said anything about being clones?
 
See here:


Sorry, but once again, just because you've had a hard life doesn't grant you immunity to any criticism. Claus wasn't being mean, Claus was being hard. She doesn't get immunity from that.

I dont know how you interpreted my comment, but i was agreeing with you.
 
I dont know how you interpreted my comment, but i was agreeing with you.

Sorry, I was trying to use your words to support my point. I think I phrased it badly, but yeah, I know you agree with me.

Remember to take your pendant, btw...
 
Give Slingblade a break, Claus. She's had a harder life than you'll ever have, but she has the intelligence and strength to fight back every time.

You know nothing of my life.

Yeah, but on St Patrick's Day, everyone is Irish.

Especially in New York.

Yeah, that's a great idea!

Samoan and other Polynesian people get Bright's Disease with far greater regularity than European people. With Polynesians making up over 25% of the population, this is an ongoing medical issue for NZ.

According to the NZ Kidney Foundation, Bright's Disease - or Nephritis - is rarely hereditary.

Thanks to adopting your "f### 'em" rule, we're going to cut funding to specific programs and initiatives set up to help Polynesians with the disease and their families.

Very sensible.

You are confusing skin color with diseases.

That's the problem with the "eurocentrism" argument: if you find examples in a book, it proves the book is "eurocentric". If you don't, well, you just haven't looked hard enough.

We can find any problem we want, as long as we look hard enough.

What's wrong with being Eurocentric? It is obvious that Europe's culture--the heritage of the ancient Greeks--is superior in its achievements to other cultures.

And yet, the ancient Greeks perished.

The wrongs you speak of--slavery, bigotry, and so on--were, of course, committed by the Europeans, but they were committed by everybody else. What makes Europeans special is that they are the only people who ever thought slavery and bigotry are wrong.

Wrong. If anything, Europeans made slavery big business, in a way it had never been before.

Democracy, human rights, the enlightenment, the scientific revolution, and so on are purely European in origin. Socrates was explaining to people that justice is absolute and not due to local customes or the rules' whim when, in Egypt, "justice" was defined as "what Pharaoh loves".

Oh, dear. A little knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing.

Socrates was explaining about "justice", while slaves were doing all his work. Women had few rights: Socrates drew criticism because of his wife - not because of her immoral behavior, but because she spoke up, something women at that time were not supposed to do.

The USA is European not because there were are blacks or chinese in the USA, but because it was established politically, not on the princples of tribal rule like in Africa, or on the principles of an absolute Emperor who is half-divine like in China, but on the principles of the Enlightenment--those of Locke and Rousseau, Pericles and Socrates; and these people were European.

So, three cheers for Eurocentrism.

The US was established on principles that were far from the real Europe. At the time of the American treacherous secession revolution, Europe was deeply mired in monarchies, some absolute.

To include Pericles and Socrates in the Enlightenment is the height of ignorance. And don't look too favorable on the Enlightenment: While pointing out the need for rationality, it also emphasized Divine Right.
 
Can I report you for stealing my words but removing the bile from them? Because that is exactly my problem with a.u.p.'s post. Sure, I could have said that without the bad words, but I prefer to post as honestly as possible and I honestly believe that if you think or act in that manner, you can, in fact, do as I instructed.

And now AS's thread has been completely hijacked.

If that was what I did, but I didn't. I tried to show you how I saw it, which was not what you were complaining again. I can't convince you otherwise, so I'll just let it go at that.
 
Who would have thought a thread about race could turn so acrimonious?

Frankly, I don't care what race anybody is, as long as they're decent people. Which is, sadly, a minority of any group you'd care to define.

In principle, race is an ill-defined concept owing more to whimsy than to biology or even history, and it's foolish to treat it with such importance.

In practice, however, enough people think race is important that it is made so. The belief in race and its significance is widespread enough that ideas of race have a very deep hold of society.

Because we are all highminded sceptics on The Internet, we like to think only in terms of principle. Yeah, race is stupid and nobody should care. However, when we log off and go out into The Real World (well, some of us do, anyway. I have my suspicions about some of you) we enter a place that is not run on principle. And your Very Bestest Posting SKillz here will not convince them out there, or fix it.

So please don't everybody jump down the throats of people who point out that race is significant. It is significant. Not in itself, but because other people make it so.
 
Multiple posts in this thread have been reported for incivility. Please converse without name calling and swearing.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
 
I can't speak for Slingblade, nor do I support Claus' argument, but most people I know of who had a hard life (and I know quite a few) find it highly insulting and patronizing when, as occassionally happens, someone wants to "go easy on them" out of pity for their plight.

You can't speak for Slingblade, but she has.

Okay.

I'll be leaving for a little while. A month, maybe. How ever long it takes me to get well. A few months. I don't want to subject you guys to me anymore.
That's not fair.

I'm not leaving in a huff, or even really leaving. But I can't do any better than this because of where my jead is now.

So, I'm leaving till I get better. I hope I get better.

I'll see you all sometime. I'll miss you.

If that's not a sign to back off someone, I don't know what else is. I didn't make it up, I'm just providing evidence for what happened. You are making things up.
 
Well I certainly didn't start this thread with the intent that it would turn ugly, and I don't think it did because of the topic. Actually, it started out quite well, and it has had some on-topic posts and some interesting derail.

The personal stuff that led to attacks and defensiveness were unnecessary, and not necessarily related to the issue of race itself. I think it is more likely that they were due to personality conflicts, and individual persons' moods at the moment.

I regret the personal attacks that occurred here, and I regret the defensiveness that sparked such incivility.

As for Claus' alleged "attacks," well, in my opinion there were none in this thread. Don't blame Claus or anyone else for Slingblade's declaration that she is taking a break for a while. Claus didn't push her to that, and neither did I. In all likelihood, Slingblade's state of emotional health is the cause of her reaction, not anything Claus did. Lay off him; he's had a tough life. He's a Viking.

OK, hopefully that will defuse some tensions. Feel free to let this thread die, or to continue on with any discussion about what it is like or feels like to be black in America. Whether you think race is BS or not is really beside the point. Thanks.

AS
 
At what point did I say, "**** 'em"? You're talking about a population with a disease. Yes, a larger proportion of a group is subject to it and they should be helped. I just think that we do put far more emphasis than is necessary on a person's skin color.
I agree, but there are compelling reasons to at least acknowledge that there are different races.
 
You know nothing of my life.
I know that wasn't directed at me, but I'll add a "thank god" to it anyway!
According to the NZ Kidney Foundation, Bright's Disease - or Nephritis - is rarely hereditary.

You are confusing skin color with diseases.
Unter, unter, unter, when will you ever learn?

If a race of people is more susceptible to a particular disease (and it isn't the only one, by any means), whether or not the condition is hereditary is irrelevant, but the race is assuredly not.
 

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