Black in America

[Tony]

In the Middle East there's a whole nation based on racial self-identification: Israel.

Judiaism isn't a race.

 

[slingblade]

Judiaism isn't a race.

There are those who would disagree with you. You try to figure it out, just try.

 

[Tmy]

Judiaism isn't a race.

"Jewish" can mean race and/or a religion.

 

[slingblade]

See? told you so.

 

[TragicMonkey]

An old aphorism is that the Jews are a people, not a race.

 

[Tmy]

An old aphorism is that the Jews are a people, not a race.

Soylent Green is people. Jews are a race.

Really. Name a trait that makes up a "race" and it will apply to the jews as it does to blacks, whites, hispanics..ect..

 

[TragicMonkey]

Soylent Green is people. Jews are a race.

Really. Name a trait that makes up a "race" and it will apply to the jews as it does to blacks, whites, hispanics..ect..

"A people" is different from "people".

Name a trait that makes up a "race" and it will apply to some people who are not the same "race" while not applying to individuals who are the same "race" as the original two.

 

[Tmy]

back to thread topic.

Black in america means you are at the forefront of race issues. Even though there are a bunch of other races, most discussion revolves around black/white. Its as if the other minorities are ignored.

 

[Tmy]

"A people" is different from "people".

Name a trait that makes up a "race" and it will apply to some people who are not the same "race" while not applying to individuals who are the same "race" as the original two.

Race is just a social invention. The meaning can change wh time or geography. In some parts of america people dont consider me black cause of my mixyness!?

 

[slingblade]

Book title search:

How the Irish Became White by Noel Ignatiev

How Jews Became White Folks and What That Says About Race in America by Karen Brodkin

Whiteness of a Different Color: European Immigrants and the Alchemy of Race by Matthew Frye Jacobson

Working Toward Whiteness: How America's Immigrants Become White. The Strange Journey from Ellis Island to the Suburbs by David R. Roediger

The Wages of Whiteness: Race and the Making of the American Working Class (Haymarket (Paperback)) by David R. Roediger

White Like Me: Reflections on Race from a Privileged Son by Tim Wise

 

[LostAngeles]

Hey thats no problem. Most of the time mixes are just put under the black umbrella anyway.
...

That's some truth right there. While the Census and a number of other institutions have been allowing the, "mixed," selection, I've had it be insisted to me that because my grandfather was black, that I am completely black (One Drop Rule anyone?) for one.

The best fun about being mixed is letting people play the, "Guess the ethnicity game."

 

[Tmy]

That's some truth right there. While the Census and a number of other institutions have been allowing the, "mixed," selection, I've had it be insisted to me that because my grandfather was black, that I am completely black (One Drop Rule anyone?) for one.

The best fun about being mixed is letting people play the, "Guess the ethnicity game."

I take solice in knowing that we mixies are the next evolutionary step of man kind! Our mocha skin and exotic looks will allow us to breed on as well as avoid skin cancer as the ozone dissapears!!

All you obsolete neanderthal "pure breads" get out of the way. BWAHAHAHAAH

 

[AmateurScientist]

And to answer AS and Larsen: You don't get to tell me who I am. I get to tell you. And if I happen to want to say I'm black, what business is it of yours? Are you going to tell me what "race" I belong to, based on your observations?

First, I don't get your defensiveness.

Second, actually, you don't get to pick your ethnicity or "race" either. It is largely decided for you by accident of birth. Your heritable characteristics are handed down to you by your ancestry, not by your own choice. Sorry that nature happens to inconvenient that way, but it is.

Calling yourself black doesn't make you black, and persons who are born black and are easily identifiably so visually do not get to choose to be WASPish or Asian or anything else. Again, pretending it is the way you wish it to be doesn't make it so.

As for whose business it is, well, one group for whom it is their business is governments at all levels (federal, state, and local). They want to know for all sorts of purposes. Some examples: birth certificates (your ethnic/racial identity starts before you can even talk or read, so no, you don't choose your ethnic identity; initially, your mom probably does, or at least the cultural part of it), marriage licenses and/or certificates, certificates of divorce, death certificates, census forms, applications for admission to colleges and universities, applications for scholarships, applications for government grants or other set-asides, etc. By the way, there are possible legal consequences. You could go to prison for faking being black and getting awarded a government contract set aside for minorities on that basis, for instance.

I might be interested in knowing if we're discussing a topic like race or ethnicity, like we are in this thread. Please read the thread title. Now, why did you go on this little rant of yours? I asked very nicely for input from black Americans or others about the thread topic. I'm genuinely interested. Sure, Claus and I have gone on a little derail about "blackness" and "race," but he hasn't gotten all defensive about it. I suggest you chill. No one has gotten ugly about it.

If you don't want to talk about it, then don't. You don't get to decide if we may discuss it, however. We'll talk about race and ethnicity if we like.

I did once go around saying I was part Cherokee, because that was the family story. However, there is no proof of it, save for two family photos from the late 1800's that show two people whose features look rather "Indian."

I don't self-identify as Cherokee anymore. And you don't get to tell me I'm wrong, because you can see my high-cheekbones and thin lips and the fact my tan can last for months.

I don't get to decide, but you don't either. You know who does decide? The Cherokee Nation. They have legal rules about what constitutes a legal Cherokee. You can't simply decide you're one and have them let you in. You have to prove it.

As to why I said "non-white?" Because you just can't win on this freaking forum no matter what you do or how careful you try to be. If I had said there were no blacks, SOMEONE would have helpfully pointed out the Asian persons, or the Hispanic persons.

See, what my husband and I said at TAM, verbatim, was this:

Me: Have you noticed, it's a sea of whiteness here?

Him: Yeah. Why is that? Aren't any non-whites skeptical folks, too?

Me: I...I..I'm sure...there must be. No group is monolithic.

Him: I know. So where are they?

Me: (feeling helpless) I don't know. I'd like to know.

I have no idea what inspired that. No one in this thread is trying to "win" about racial issues. The only actual debate going on is with Claus, who seems to be denying that race and ethnicity have any meaning at all. We know he's being silly.

AS

 

[AmateurScientist]

That's some truth right there. While the Census and a number of other institutions have been allowing the, "mixed," selection, I've had it be insisted to me that because my grandfather was black, that I am completely black (One Drop Rule anyone?) for one.

The best fun about being mixed is letting people play the, "Guess the ethnicity game."

Mixes are getting to be more and more numerous. I suspect that in a couple or three generations, in the US persons of non-obvious ethnicity visually will be so commonplace that it won't be unusual or vexing.

Thanks for weighing in.

AS

 

[Tony]

There are those who would disagree with you. You try to figure it out, just try.

??

 

[LostAngeles]

...
I have no idea what inspired that. No one in this thread is trying to "win" about racial issues. The only actual debate going on is with Claus, who seems to be denying that race and ethnicity have any meaning at all. We know he's being silly.

AS

As a, "mixie," (thanks Tmy), I don't really think it does. It only bothers me when I find the whole thing being forced down my throat, as I did when I went to a week-long thingum for transfer students at UCLA the summer before last.

I'm a damn mongrel. I may be in this thread and I may be amused by the "Guess my ethnicity" game and the assertations of Greatest about the benefits of, "sticking with your own kind," but I don't really care. It seems more the interest of others what my race/ethnicity is.

Claus either honestly doesn't get our nation's fascination with it or he's trying to make a point. Either way, I agree. It shouldn't matter a damn whit, but in reality, it does.

 

[Tony]

"Jewish" can mean race and/or a religion.

So? That some people call "jew" a race doesn't mean jewishness is genetic.

 

[LostAngeles]

Mixes are getting to be more and more numerous. I suspect that in a couple or three generations, in the US persons of non-obvious ethnicity visually will be so commonplace that it won't be unusual or vexing.

Thanks for weighing in.

AS

As a side note, I had no idea Tony Dungy was black. I just classified him under, "of indeterminate ethnic orgin."

I freely confess to ignoring a lot of pre-Super Bowl press unless the Pats are playing.

 

[Tmy]

I asked very nicely for input from black Americans or others about the thread topic. I'm genuinely interested. Sure, Claus and I have gone on a little derail about "blackness" and "race," but he hasn't gotten all defensive about it. I suggest you chill. No one has gotten ugly about it.

Ill try and stay on topic.

Methinks that TV shows and movies have done a disservice to blacks in the US. Many people live in areas with few to no blacks and therefore developed opinons on blacks from what they saw in TV. Which was mostly stereotypes.

Heres a funny story. I went to an almost all white highschool. I really hated taking showers in the lockeroom and tried to avoid it. Why? Cause people were always trying to look at my weiner! Checking to see if the old myth was true. WHO NEEDS THAT PRESSURE!! Especially in 9th grade when your not so.........developed.

HA! Ive never told anyone that story.

 

[Tmy]

Mixes are getting to be more and more numerous. I suspect that in a couple or three generations, in the US persons of non-obvious ethnicity visually will be so commonplace that it won't be unusual or vexing.

Thanks for weighing in.

AS

Anyone else notice that hispanics and blacks tend to be blending/merging. It really common to see blacks/hispanics sharing language and culture traits.