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Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

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LTC8K6 said:
The shadows in the footpront don't seem to correspond to Patty's shadow, although I admit it's hard to make heads or tails out of much in that video.
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Well, I have to be honest and tell you.. I have watched the P/G film I dont know how many times, and I never have seen any of the footprints patty left behind as she walked away. Maybe my eyesight is just getting bad :(
 
Correa Neto said:
Yes, you are.
Game cams are already stabilished as a reliable tool. They do not "scare animals". I guess I do not need to remind you of the many shots that quite often appear illustrating wildlife-related news.
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I think you misunderstood me. I was referring only to the possibility they emit something, possibly sound, that we're not aware of.

They seem to do well in the open on things like deer, but they can be triggered by all sorts of things that aren't even animals and forget it for anything concealed by foliage.

I shouldn't have to remind you most wildife photography is staged. Most photographers don't have funding for more than a few days, so rather than wait for good shots to occur "naturally", they "arrange" the pictures.

Wich ones those shown at Coleman's site? Those showing some reddish/brown blur? You consider that interesting?
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I don't even know what you're talking about.

There are some copyrighted shots I can't post that may or may not show something.

Personally, I don't think photos are going to do the trick.

New evidence?

Any reliable evidence or just the same old type of stuff?
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Ask them.

Posting large blocks of text is not my style. Check post 1150 for more detail. Here's the important part:
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That's all in the the link I posted. Ray posted only a small part. Since Ray and I have already done this one to death, I'd prefer it if you would not refer to his posts again. He's filtered and will not be unfiltered unless he apologizes.

And from your own quote:
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He's not saying it is human and he his not the only researcher to analyse hair. How many humans do you know with 3" hair that has never been cut?
To sum up: the hair evidence is inconclusive, unreliable, useless.
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Isn't it all, to your way of thinking?

I see no point in answering the rest of this. Been there, done that, worn the T-shirt.

<snip>

Do you play bridge?
 
J. Arthur Hastur said:
The habitat (Pacific Northwest) simply does not have sufficient amounts of high protein foods in the habitat to support a large mammal.

Now, I know the Bigfooters are going to say 'Not true, there are bears, deer and caribou.' Yes there are, but we have a BUT for each of them.
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In addition to your BUT (and I'm sure it's a very fine one and your wife/girlfriend is quite happy with it!), there is the addition of competition. Not only does the environment have to sustain these creatures (whatever size population is needed to maintiain this species) but they compete with every other large creature for these resources. And, with the advancement of human civilization into these habitats, they grow smaller and less able to sustain large populations of these animals. So much so, that conservation has turned to hunting. So, to maintain a balance in the environment, humans hunt bears, deer and caribou. That would seem to be eliminating the competition for ol' Big Foot and his fellows, thus encouraging their growth.

So, if the competition for resources have been tilted in Big Foot's favor, why don't hunters out killing BF's competators ever seen one and shot it (with gun or camera)? Why aren't there more of these beasts as they grow with the lack of competition?
 
Melissa said:
Well, I have to be honest and tell you.. I have watched the P/G film I dont know how many times, and I never have seen any of the footprints patty left behind as she walked away. Maybe my eyesight is just getting bad :(
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What? You didn't see the prints left by Bob Heironimus' little feet?
 
DrDisco said:
In addition to your BUT (and I'm sure it's a very fine one and your wife/girlfriend is quite happy with it!), there is the addition of competition. Not only does the environment have to sustain these creatures (whatever size population is needed to maintiain this species) but they compete with every other large creature for these resources. And, with the advancement of human civilization into these habitats, they grow smaller and less able to sustain large populations of these animals. So much so, that conservation has turned to hunting. So, to maintain a balance in the environment, humans hunt bears, deer and caribou. That would seem to be eliminating the competition for ol' Big Foot and his fellows, thus encouraging their growth.

So, if the competition for resources have been tilted in Big Foot's favor, why don't hunters out killing BF's competators ever seen one and shot it (with gun or camera)? Why aren't there more of these beasts as they grow with the lack of competition?
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They seem to be largely nocturnal, so that would decrease direct competition with bears, which compete for the same food. Deer populations have exploded in much of the country, so that would be a food source that's on the increase.

Huge territories would spread them out enough so they wouldn't be competing much with each other. The high-pitched calls reported and recorded (not refering to abberant coyotes) could be an adaptation for communicating over long distances.

In some parts of the country, they could be making a comeback, as Mountain Lions seem to be doing in the east, after decades of absence, quite possibly due to disease and destruction of habitat. In western North Carolina, e.g., the forests are being allowed to grow back and there is very little human activity in them.

Events at Bluff Creek in 1967 were near a 17,500 sq. mi. area that had only been mapped from the air. Human activity was encroaching on their domain and there were many tracks and a few sightings of these individuals. There were at least three animals involved.

Civilization isn't really intruding on much of their habitat. There are millions of acres of national forests in this country, and that just happens to be prime habitat.

It's hard to tell if encounters are on the increase or whether just the reporting is, but there may be more encounters now just because there are more people in the woods.

Hunters have shot them. There are pictures.
 
Blackdog barked...
because there is no use arguing with an inflexible, myopic "true believer" who can not and will not consider anything other than Bigfoot being responsible for everything that they can not explain or understand and rely on someone else to bolster their beliefs instead of considering every other possibility.
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Really Blackdog?
I believe Bigfoot exists....and very recently I asked Ray and kitakaze for alternate, plausible explanations regarding a Bigfoot sighting report....and got this from our beloved "open-minded", "helpful", "debating" friends....
This from kitakaze:
You give an anecdote, say there are only two possible explanations for it, claim it as evidence that 'isn't paltry', and in light of your malfunct reasoning INSIST that someone else provide you with other "probable" explanations. ("OH...STOP ASKING...you bad man, you!")
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Actually...I didn't INSIST on anything...I PERSISTED in asking the skeptics for alternate explanations, other than Bigfoot.
Our resident septic skeptics are the ones refusing to engage in actual debate....and in contributing anything of substance.

I have no problem with considering counter-arguments from skeptics....the problem is counter-arguments are very difficult to find. :)

Maybe Blackdog can come up with one for Joyce's sighting and phone call......but I doubt it.
 
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LAL said:
Unfortunately, nothing's clear, the shots or the shots. ;)
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Then why say hunters have shot them, there are pictures (especially here)? Drop a nugget, get a bite , back it off?

Drapier, I'm sure can see there're a lot of 'unfortunately's' when it comes to BF.
 
SweatyYeti said:
Maybe Blackdog can come up with one for Joyce's sighting and phone call......but I doubt it.
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Maybe someone else will join you in your poo poo woo-capades but not here, not anymore, I think. Still think your anecdote is good evidence? (What's the point? We know you do.)

ETA: Are you insisting on or persisting in semantic quibbles? (Consisting of, assisting in...)
 
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kitakaze wrote:
Sweaty, restrain your dramatic urges enough that your asparagus reasoning doesn't continue with asparagus quoting.
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Thanks for the advice, kitakaze. I'll start controlling my urges tomorrow. In addition....I'm gonna go buy me a book on how to quote stuff.
There's one I found on Amazon that sounds just right for me...."The Complete Guide to Quoting for Asparagus Heads" by Kitty Klueless. :D
 
kitakaze said:
Then why say hunters have shot them, there are pictures (especially here)? Drop a nugget, get a bite , back it off?
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Just so I could slip in a little humor about shots.
Drapier, I'm sure can see there're a lot of 'unfortunately's' when it comes to BF.
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Y'know, I really hate to have to keep posting the whole history when people can buy the books and do the searching themselves.

Shootings failed because the body wasn't recoverable (Beck) or shots failed to bring the animal down. There are quite a few stills, some of which either aren't on the Internet or can't be posted there of figures that certainly seem to be like the hulking image in Freeman 1994. There's the much-disputed MD footage, Redwoods footage, Marble Mountain Footage, Silver Star, that weird snapshot from the guy who never came back for his prints.....need I go on?

I just, finally, got to see Animal X: Bigfoot from Animal Planet. This is the actual film from the Skookum Expedition. Despite RayG's repeated posting of an article that had Grover Krantz saying he didn't know what it (the Skookum Cast) was, he most empathically stated on camera he agreed with the others.

I'm posting this in reply to you so I won't have to take him off filter just to tell him that. I'm in no mood for another war.
 
Melissa said:
This is exactly why I have tried very hard to seperate my current work from Tubes.

The artifacts Tube discusses were created using Volcanic Ash (Pumice), is that not correct?

Is there any Volcanic Ash or Pumice in the soil of Onion Mountain?

If there is no Volcanic Ash or Pumice present in the soil of Onion Mountain, why would you use these substrates to either prove or disprove what can or can not happen in this soil?

Yes, tube did show it is possible to create these "artifacts", that no one can deny and your right, your foolish to do so. He worked hard to prove that. But, he did not prove it can or will happen in the soil from Onion Mountain. His 1 test in this soil proves that.

I do think the Onion Mountain Cast deserves a much closer look, as I have proven dermal ridges and flexion creases are not only possible but absolutely do happen. Now, are these the dermals of an unknown primate? I have no idea. But, to say this cast should be dismissed based on work done in substrates other than the actual soil from this area is just not correct.

Being skeptical doesnt mean you throw out the ability to be objective.

My work continues :)
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This may be the sanest post in the whole discussion. I think it deserves a little Kipling.

IF

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

Thanks Melissa. Thanks, Rudyard (but you could have included women).
 
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