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The JEWS! DID! IT!

Hey Oliver. I am not sure what you mean by " general social problem" but-Try this:

http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Jan/14-260933.html

"A total of 2,071 occupants of the World Trade Center died on September 11, among the 2,749 victims of the WTC attacks. According to an article in the October 11, 2001, Wall Street Journal, roughly 1,700 people had listed the religion of a person missing in the WTC attacks; approximately 10% were Jewish. A later article, in the September 5, 2002, Jewish Week, states, "based on the list of names, biographical information compiled by The New York Times, and information from records at the Medical Examiner's Office, there were at least 400 victims either confirmed or strongly believed to be Jewish." This would be approximately 15% of the total victims of the WTC attacks. A partial list of 390 Cantor Fitzgerald employees who died (out of 658 in the company) lists 49 Jewish memorial services, which is between 12% and 13%.
 
steverino said:
Hey Oliver. I am not sure what you mean by " general social problem" but-Try this:

http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Jan/14-260933.html

"A total of 2,071 occupants of the World Trade Center died on September 11, among the 2,749 victims of the WTC attacks. According to an article in the October 11, 2001, Wall Street Journal, roughly 1,700 people had listed the religion of a person missing in the WTC attacks; approximately 10% were Jewish. A later article, in the September 5, 2002, Jewish Week, states, "based on the list of names, biographical information compiled by The New York Times, and information from records at the Medical Examiner's Office, there were at least 400 victims either confirmed or strongly believed to be Jewish." This would be approximately 15% of the total victims of the WTC attacks. A partial list of 390 Cantor Fitzgerald employees who died (out of 658 in the company) lists 49 Jewish memorial services, which is between 12% and 13%.
Click to expand...

Thank you for you reply, Steverino.

I know about the facts concerning the victims but the problem
of many CT-Nuts seems to be a general distrust in jewish people
and obscure believes in a secret jewish society planning to control
the Planet. Sounds weird but many ct-nuts believe it is true.

Now CT sites is not the first time i read about the issue - i met
the "holohoaxer" and "Protocols"-believer in many american fora but
also in radio-streams and websites. While we have straight rules
against denying the proven holocaust, there seems to be a educational
lack in history lessons and i wonder why.
 
Here's just an example of an forum Admin i found a minute ago:

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3327&st=0&

I guess that would make James Brolin, who is married to Barbara Streisand - a Jew - an anti-semite. This is of course, ridiculous.

Now THESE people are certainly "anti-something". Where is PAula Zahn's concern here?

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/palestinians.html

1. "There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies *not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy." Israeli president Moshe Katsav. The Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001

2. "The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more".... Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000

3. " [The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs." Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts". New Statesman, 25 June 1982.

4. "The Palestinians" would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." " Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

5. "When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

6. "How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to." Golda Maier, March 8, 1969.

7. "There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969

8. "The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war." Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972.

9. David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.

10. Ben Gurion also warned in 1948 : "We must do everything to insure they ( the Palestinians) never do return." Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes. "The old will die and the young will forget."

11. "We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

12. "Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio. (Certainly the FBI's cover-up of the Israeli spy ring/phone tap scandal suggests that Mr. Sharon may not have been joking.)

13. "We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces - Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.

14. "We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinian refugees] never do return" David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar's Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.

15. "We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai." David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

16. "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"

17. "Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." Moshe Dayan, address to the Technion, Haifa, reported in Haaretz, April 4, 1969.

18. "We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

19. Rabin's description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet. "We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters" Uri Lubrani, PM Ben-Gurion's special adviser on Arab Affairs, 1960. From "The Arabs in Israel" by Sabri Jiryas.

20. "There are some who believe that the non-Jewish population, even in a high percentage, within our borders will be more effectively under our surveillance; and there are some who believe the contrary, i.e., that it is easier to carry out surveillance over the activities of a neighbor than over those of a tenant. tend to support the latter view and have an additional argument:...the need to sustain the character of the state which will henceforth be Jewish...with a non-Jewish minority limited to 15 percent. I had already reached this fundamental position as early as 1940 [and] it is entered in my diary." Joseph Weitz, head of the Jewish Agency's Colonization Department. From Israel: an Apartheid State by Uri Davis, p.5.

21. "Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them." Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

22. "It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.

23. "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine,Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry.

24. "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]

25. "We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own." (You Gentiles, by Jewish Author Maurice Samuels, p. 155).

26. "We will have a world government whether you like it or not. The only question is whether that government will be achieved by conquest or consent." (Jewish Banker Paul Warburg, February 17, 1950, as he testified before the U.S. Senate).

27. "We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not...You can hasten our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow the world." (Chaim Weizmann, Published in "Judische Rundschau," No. 4, 1920)
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From your "Whatreallyhappened" link:


"The failure to differentiate between civilians and terrorists turns all the Palestinians into potential suicide bombers."
(Yosef Paritzky, 2003)

Well that one is true.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Let there be no doubt -- the United States of America stands with the State of Israel also because it is in our national interests to stand with the State of Israel."
(Nancy Pelosi, April 1, 2003)

Nothing wrong with that one. Israel is a strong ally.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"One Cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland."
(Yitzhak (Izaak) Greenbaum, 18 February 1943)

This is Jewish hate-speech? Sounds like a poor translation of a Yiddish joke.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We have to reserve the right to bomb the *******." (N-Word)
(David Lloyd George, mid-1920s)

He was Welsh, not Jewish. I see no Israel references here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lloyd_George

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oliver-These quotes, while numerous, seem out of context, and mostly vengeful in the context of battle, of which there have been many, unfortunately. I am not sure how this all connects to 9/11 and Osama, who boasted credit for the tragedy.
 
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Oliver said:
I know about the facts concerning the victims but the problem of many CT-Nuts seems to be a general distrust in jewish people and obscure believes in a secret jewish society planning to control the Planet. Sounds weird but many ct-nuts believe it is true.
Click to expand...
You are correct enough- be aware, however, that there are quite a few CT nutjobs who focus on some other group. And a very, very few real conspiracies; most of which get outed eventually and have their day of fame.

Oliver said:
Now CT sites is not the first time i read about the issue - i met the "holohoaxer" and "Protocols"-believer in many american fora but also in radio-streams and websites. While we have straight rules against denying the proven holocaust, there seems to be a educational lack in history lessons and i wonder why.
Click to expand...
First of all, we have a serious social problem in my country with people who have problems with racial, ethnic, religious, and national origin groups different from their own. This dates back to the 18th Century, and actually quite a bit before that in Europe. Unfortunately, because of the way that people in the Southeast of my country were treated after the Civil War of the 1840s and '50s, considerable covert resistance formed against the more enlightened attitudes that you find yourself surrounded by in your country. We have many people, and to be fair, even many people in the Old South, as the Southeast is called, who share these enlightened attitudes, but there are many as well who do not, and some even who pretend to them but actually act otherwise when they feel they can get away with it without anyone finding out.

Because of the laws in my country, we have enormous respect for the freedom of individuals to hold even extremely unpopular, or demonstrably false, views. And not merely these views, but the free right to express them, are in fact protected by those laws; the government is specifically restricted and restrained from making laws or taking any other action that could interfere with this principle, which we call "freedom of speech." The laws in your country that prevent denial of the holocaust could never be enforced, or even enacted, in my country; we do not permit the government to dictate what people say in free speech.

The limits on this are that we do not permit open threats of violence or illegal activity which might damage someone's life, health, liberty, finances, or anything else of theirs; such threats are also against our laws, and such speech would not be protected, and forms an exception to free speech. Inciting others to violence or other illegal activity falls under the same laws. The people who hold such views are aware of these laws, and careful never to express viewpoints in public that would run afoul of them, but in private with people of like mind they are of course less restrained, at least according to the reports I have read. If they were unwise enough to express them in public, of course, they would (and on occasion the crazier ones have) run afoul of many law enforcement personnel who, like the majority here, disapprove of these views and would hasten to investigate, indict, try, and imprison them as a result.

Education is unfortunately little help; first of all, economic and political conditions and considerations make it advantageous for those who hold these views to continue to hold them. Second, those who hold such views teach them to their children. Third, to avoid trouble, they teach their children also to conceal or at least dissemble these views. Fourth, human nature is such that fear and distrust of the outsider or the different is omnipresent, and takes discipline and strength of will to overcome; discipline and will that many are not taught.

I find myself recently thinking that the most important issue that faces us, at least here in the US, may well be mental health.
 
Isn't the greatest concentration of these neo-Nazis in the northern states of Michigan, Wisconsin, Montana, etc? My only knowledge of them is via a TV research program that showed they were usually very young, illiterate, and destitute farmboys (and girls) with few prospects, looking for someone to blame for their condition. And a few total nutcases who are bunkering down for the "Final Race War with the Nig*ers". Of course, that source could be utterly wrong and biased...
 
steverino said:
Oliver-These quotes, while numerous, seem out of context, and mostly vengeful in the context of battle, of which there have been many, unfortunately. I am not sure how this all connects to 9/11 and Osama, who boasted credit for the tragedy.
Click to expand...

Yes and this seems to be the problem over there. It's like the "Protocols
of the Elders of Zion" - if someone does not know their origin, they sound
pretty ugly. That's when i think that there is something wrong in american
education about history and especially the Holocaust. Maybe the issue isn't
being educated intensively enough?
 
The mental health problem appears to be a Western disease, from what I can tell. There is something fundamentally wrong with a consumer society that does not address basic needs. It is also the result of widespread drug abuse, which may or may not be tied to the previous issue.

As to the OP. Racism is present in all societies. To pretend you live in a country that is above racism is a common failing.

The creation of Israel, whatever the rights or wrongs of the case, did involve the dispossesion of Arabs. That process is still in train. I did read a quote from Ben Gurion that is not in that list, to the effect that holding on to the West Bank and Gaza was a mistake. So there were Zionists who understood, in their minds, the need to make Israel, but also the necessity of bringing an end to the process as well.

The racism that Arabs express towards Jews is often presented here, the reverse is not.

What the rights or wrongs of creating Israel have to do with 9/11, I don't know, however. It's pretty clear it was done by Al Qaeda, under the control of Bin Laden.

I can find you a nice list of quotes from Australian politicians over the years that are pretty racist, too. We also had the infamous "white Australia policy", which many seem to be yearning for again, lead proudly by our own conservative PM.
 
Oliver said:
Yes and this seems to be the problem over there. It's like the "Protocols
of the Elders of Zion" - if someone does not know their origin, they sound
pretty ugly. That's when i think that there is something wrong in american
education about history and especially the Holocaust. Maybe the issue isn't
being educated intensively enough?
Click to expand...

Take this quote for example

7. "There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969

Something similar to that sentiment has been expressed here many times.
 
a_unique_person said:
I can find you a nice list of quotes from Australian politicians over the years that are pretty racist, too. We also had the infamous "white Australia policy", which many seem to be yearning for again, lead proudly by our own conservative PM.
Click to expand...

Hi, AUP. Can you provide any quotes by John Howard promoting "White Australia?" I'd be intrigued to read such statements by him.
 
Schneibster said:
You are correct enough- be aware, however, that there are quite a few CT nutjobs who focus on some other group. And a very, very few real conspiracies; most of which get outed eventually and have their day of fame.

First of all, we have a serious social problem in my country with people who have problems with racial, ethnic, religious, and national origin groups different from their own. This dates back to the 18th Century, and actually quite a bit before that in Europe. Unfortunately, because of the way that people in the Southeast of my country were treated after the Civil War of the 1840s and '50s, considerable covert resistance formed against the more enlightened attitudes that you find yourself surrounded by in your country. We have many people, and to be fair, even many people in the Old South, as the Southeast is called, who share these enlightened attitudes, but there are many as well who do not, and some even who pretend to them but actually act otherwise when they feel they can get away with it without anyone finding out.

Because of the laws in my country, we have enormous respect for the freedom of individuals to hold even extremely unpopular, or demonstrably false, views. And not merely these views, but the free right to express them, are in fact protected by those laws; the government is specifically restricted and restrained from making laws or taking any other action that could interfere with this principle, which we call "freedom of speech." The laws in your country that prevent denial of the holocaust could never be enforced, or even enacted, in my country; we do not permit the government to dictate what people say in free speech.

The limits on this are that we do not permit open threats of violence or illegal activity which might damage someone's life, health, liberty, finances, or anything else of theirs; such threats are also against our laws, and such speech would not be protected, and forms an exception to free speech. Inciting others to violence or other illegal activity falls under the same laws. The people who hold such views are aware of these laws, and careful never to express viewpoints in public that would run afoul of them, but in private with people of like mind they are of course less restrained, at least according to the reports I have read. If they were unwise enough to express them in public, of course, they would (and on occasion the crazier ones have) run afoul of many law enforcement personnel who, like the majority here, disapprove of these views and would hasten to investigate, indict, try, and imprison them as a result.

Education is unfortunately little help; first of all, economic and political conditions and considerations make it advantageous for those who hold these views to continue to hold them. Second, those who hold such views teach them to their children. Third, to avoid trouble, they teach their children also to conceal or at least dissemble these views. Fourth, human nature is such that fear and distrust of the outsider or the different is omnipresent, and takes discipline and strength of will to overcome; discipline and will that many are not taught.

I find myself recently thinking that the most important issue that faces us, at least here in the US, may well be mental health.
Click to expand...

Mhmm, first of all i want to adress the free speech:

Of course we have free speech in germany, too. The difference is that
we have laws against playing the dumb holohoax denying because it
is a lie that made many people here pretty angry in the past. But even
if we have this law does not mean that it isn't allowed to ask questions
or that we have less free speech. You simply get in a lot of trouble if
you ignore the holocaust - mainly because unwritten, moral standards.

Maybe the issue isn't explained and illustrated enough in american
schools - i don't know for sure.

I understand that social and political issues are also part of the problem
but i don't understand why many seem to see the problem in the jewish
citizens - they are a relatively small amount in the US society.

Now i also hear these things in Radiostreams like WingTV and RBN Live.
They are small stations but is there no legal way to stop these lies? I
mean if i would be a jewish citizen, i would sue them for their lies
because they are making propaganda against me and my origins.

So free speech means that i can legally say N*gger in general as
long i don't name someone personally - even if someone feels
insulted by my general statement?
 
Oliver- Have you visited America? That experience might answer some questions for you.
 
Zep said:
Isn't the greatest concentration of these neo-Nazis in the northern states of Michigan, Wisconsin, Montana, etc?
Click to expand...
There are some of them up there, yes. Not so much Michigan- some in Wisconsin- more farther west, in the northernmost states. But those are the militia people, and they're not very prevalent in the cities- they tend to stay away from cities. In the Southeast, they have them in the cities too. The whole thing was at least partly exacerbated by a group you might have heard of called the Klu Klux Klan, who opposed the "carpetbagger" politicians sent by the North after the Civil War to be legislators in the South, and who wound up (for obvious reasons) being the most obvious racist organization there.

Another problem I didn't mention is that this anti-racial or -ethnic etc. attitude is present in law enforcement organizations in some areas, too.

Zep said:
My only knowledge of them is via a TV research program that showed they were usually very young, illiterate, and destitute farmboys (and girls) with few prospects, looking for someone to blame for their condition. And a few total nutcases who are bunkering down for the "Final Race War with the Nig*ers". Of course, that source could be utterly wrong and biased...
Click to expand...
I unfortunately get to read about them in the paper on a fairly regular basis.
 
steverino said:
Oliver- Have you visited America? That experience might answer some questions for you.
Click to expand...

I visited the states a decade ago but i missed to take a look
into the free speech issue because i wasn't aware of any
differences in terms of speech. :">
 
steverino said:
Hi, AUP. Can you provide any quotes by John Howard promoting "White Australia?" I'd be intrigued to read such statements by him.
Click to expand...

He's too smart for that. The old days politicians were proud of White Australia. These days it has to be put in other terms. Most of what John Howard does is incremental, step by step.

I read an article about him recently, comparing what he has done, and what Pauline Hanson ( an outspoken racist who was kicked out of the liberal party) wanted. Much of what she asked for, he has implemented.

He was quite happy to slander refugees, and say 'we don't want those sort of people here', when it was quite well known that the basis for him making that statement was not true, and a liberal party beat up.

http://www.worldpress.org/Asia/1918.cfm

It helped win him an election.
 
Oliver said:
Mhmm, first of all i want to adress the free speech:

Of course we have free speech in germany, too. The difference is that we have laws against playing the dumb holohoax denying because it is a lie that made many people here pretty angry in the past. But even if we have this law does not mean that it isn't allowed to ask questions or that we have less free speech. You simply get in a lot of trouble if you ignore the holocaust - mainly because unwritten, moral standards.
Click to expand...
I'm very aware of those standards, and approve strongly of them, and wish that we could find a way to have some things like them over here. The people who originally believed that crap, of course, did a great deal of damage to your country, and you have all decided, "Never again." I respect and trust that decision.

The problem with dealing with it that way for us, is that we have had so many experiences in which such small issues turned out later to be wedges used to oppress us, that we no longer trust the government with such power. You may not be familiar with the history of the labor union movement here in the US. It is a violent history, my friend. And it is a history rife with the use by the rich of the government, and laws, and law enforcement personnel, to oppress the labor unions, and to prevent them from pressing for a living wage for workers. We have resolved therefore to be uncompromising in preserving these freedoms- and the speech that you and I both dislike is the price of it. We can't stop them without giving the rich a stick to use against us. And they whine about how we incite "class warfare-" but attack us every chance they get. As is happening now. You noticed, I'm sure, who's doing all the dying over in Iraq. Nobody rich, that's for sure. So that wouldn't be "class warfare" because...?

Oliver said:
Maybe the issue isn't explained and illustrated enough in american schools - i don't know for sure.
Click to expand...
Sure it is. That's not the problem.

Say you go to school, and the teacher says something. So you go home and you repeat it, and your parents tell you it's a lie. Who do you believe?

THAT's the problem.

We teach about the holocaust in schools; anyway, I sure learned about it, between that and movies I saw on TV and in the theaters. What the heck they teach kids today, what with all this creationism and other kak, I have no idea, but I wouldn't expect that part of it to have changed a lot.

Oliver said:
I understand that social and political issues are also part of the problem but i don't understand why many seem to see the problem in the jewish citizens - they are a relatively small amount in the US society.
Click to expand...
It's because they are seen as rich, and for the same reason they were persecuted for so long in Europe- because they are not only different, but insist on being different. Different is a problem for people who aren't very bright, aren't very well educated, and don't encounter different people very often.

Nothing rational; that's understood, I guess.

Oliver said:
Now i also hear these things in Radiostreams like WingTV and RBN Live. They are small stations but is there no legal way to stop these lies? I mean if i would be a jewish citizen, i would sue them for their lies because they are making propaganda against me and my origins.
Click to expand...
Can't do it- it's protected free speech. As long as they don't libel or slander (those are technical legal terms) any individual named person, and as long as they neither threaten nor incite, they can say any lie they want. Look at Faux "News."

Oliver said:
So free speech means that i can legally say N*gger in general as long i don't name someone personally - even if someone feels insulted by my general statement?
Click to expand...
Sure you can. Of course, for most people over here, it is as dirty as anything covered by rule eight. Most parents would wash a kid's mouth out with soap for using it in their hearing. They wouldn't be caught dead using it, nor are they likely to be interested in associating further with anyone who does. But it's not like you can be prosecuted, and in some lower segments of society, such behavior is encouraged by peer groups. But it's nothing to use among the middle class. And there are places in LA, or Washington DC, or New York, or New Orleans, that you most likely wouldn't leave alive after using it, if you have white skin.
 
Schneibster said:
The problem with dealing with it that way for us, is that we have had so many experiences in which such small issues turned out later to be wedges used to oppress us, that we no longer trust the government with such power. You may not be familiar with the history of the labor union movement here in the US. It is a violent history, my friend. And it is a history rife with the use by the rich of the government, and laws, and law enforcement personnel, to oppress the labor unions, and to prevent them from pressing for a living wage for workers. We have resolved therefore to be uncompromising in preserving these freedoms- and the speech that you and I both dislike is the price of it. We can't stop them without giving the rich a stick to use against us. And they whine about how we incite "class warfare-" but attack us every chance they get. As is happening now. You noticed, I'm sure, who's doing all the dying over in Iraq. Nobody rich, that's for sure. So that wouldn't be "class warfare" because...?
Click to expand...

You're right. I miss the historical expieriences you made and had been told
in school. Honestly, i don't know for sure who's doing all dying in Iraq but i've
learned that the embargo before the war caused 1,000,000 deaths and that
there are estimations about 500,000 more dead iraqis since the war which is
pretty ugly if i consider the forgotten and faked reasons to go to war - no
matter if the numbers are 100% accurate or not.

Well, it's different issue to the anti-semitic one, isn't it?

Say you go to school, and the teacher says something. So you go home and you repeat it, and your parents tell you it's a lie. Who do you believe?

THAT's the problem.

We teach about the holocaust in schools; anyway, I sure learned about it, between that and movies I saw on TV and in the theaters. What the heck they teach kids today, what with all this creationism and other kak, I have no idea, but I wouldn't expect that part of it to have changed a lot.
Click to expand...

It's about 20 years ago since the history lessons in school but we saw
the pictures and videos from the Holocaust. The images speak a stronger
language then what you've been told. But i don't know if history is
censored concerning graphic evidence about the Holocaust.

It's because they are seen as rich, and for the same reason they were persecuted for so long in Europe- because they are not only different, but insist on being different. Different is a problem for people who aren't very bright, aren't very well educated, and don't encounter different people very often.

Nothing rational; that's understood, I guess.
Click to expand...

I know the prejudices but before i started to read in american boards,
i didn't know that this is an issue over there beside the discrimination
from organisations like the Ku Klux Clan which seems to be dying or
at least ignored by todays media.

Can't do it- it's protected free speech. As long as they don't libel or slander (those are technical legal terms) any individual named person, and as long as they neither threaten nor incite, they can say any lie they want. Look at Faux "News."

Sure you can. Of course, for most people over here, it is as dirty as anything covered by rule eight. Most parents would wash a kid's mouth out with soap for using it in their hearing. They wouldn't be caught dead using it, nor are they likely to be interested in associating further with anyone who does. But it's not like you can be prosecuted, and in some lower segments of society, such behavior is encouraged by peer groups. But it's nothing to use among the middle class. And there are places in LA, or Washington DC, or New York, or New Orleans, that you most likely wouldn't leave alive after using it, if you have white skin.
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Well, this is another thing i don't understand about free speech.
Here in germany it is slander if you would say "N***ers are all
the same" because it says that everyone who is black colored is
a ***. Therefore it is personal slander under german law without
calling an individual name. So i guess the american laws are
different, right?
 
Oliver said:
I'm reading the Loose Change Boards (9/11 conspiracies) right now
and it seems that many of these nuts think that the Jews did 9/11.

Probably this would be a good thread in JREF/CT, too - but to me
it looks like a general social problem in america.

What are your thoughts?

Loose Change Forum:
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?act=SF&f=6&st=
Click to expand...
They actually have a forum?

I thought it was conclusively proven, a while back, that Dylan Avery made the stuff up... that he doesn't believe in the 9/11 truth bull, but just made the video so he could capitalize on it.
 
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