The Marijuana Thread

[bob_kark]

Dude... they totally make pot illegal because they know if everyone had access to weed, it would totally open their minds and they'd all like rise up and take this country, uhm... Dude, I'm so hungry. But the fridge is like way over in the kitchen. Forget it man, it's not worth it man... So, where was I? Oh, yeah, so I was playing Tony Hawk...

I just think we've met our quota for 30 something men who live in their parent's garage/basement/attic, smell like salty patchouli, and are waiting for that one big break. These people don't need additional handicaps.

I just don't see the benefit in making it legal. It's not as if marijuana has some great medicinal benefit or any cultural relevance. If anything, it seems to take the worst from smoking and drinking and mixes it together with some of the most annoying people on the planet. The only plus side? It's not physically addictive. Oh joy. Also, with the recent anti-smoking regulation being filed around the country, what makes anyone think pot's going to become legal when tobacco is on the way out?

 

[BPSCG]

Sounds nice and cozy BEEPS. Can I come visit this summer? (I take my steak medium rare...Guiness room temp. works. Thanks. )

If you're willing to travel three thousand miles for a steak and a stout, the least I could do is offer you food and drink...

 

[BPSCG]

Dude... they totally make pot illegal because they know if everyone had access to weed, it would totally open their minds and they'd all like rise up and take this country, uhm... Dude, I'm so hungry. But the fridge is like way over in the kitchen. Forget it man, it's not worth it man... So, where was I? Oh, yeah, so I was playing Tony Hawk...

Drunk, acid freak, and pot head go out for lunch.

They get to the deli at 11:30. Sign on the door says, "Open at noon."

Drunk says, "Let's break the door down!"
Acid freak says, "Let's float through the keyhole!"
Pot head says, "Let's wait until noon..."

 

[Vorticity]

I just don't see the benefit in making it legal.

It shouldn't require a benefit for it to be legal.

What should be required is a compelling justification for it to be illegal in the first place. In my experience, this is not forthcoming.

 

[bob_kark]

It shouldn't require a benefit for it to be legal.

What should be required is a compelling justification for it to be illegal in the first place. In my experience, this is not forthcoming.

I'm not making a logical argument here. Were I to make a logical argument it would detail the benefits vs. detriments inherent in allowing marijuana to be legal and would involve also calling for the banning of tobacco and alcohol, pointing out that prohibition was just the precursor to the war on drugs. However, I don't have the time nor am I exactly in the right mood to debate my inherently unpopular position, though turning Nevada into a Neo-Amsterdam could be a great middle ground.

 

[Thanz]

What about cigarretes? The effect of cigarretes is a kind of high, and I'm not aware of any other (i.e. wine-snob type) uses.

Cigarettes suck too. And we are slowly moving towards making them much closer to illegal - they are now illegal in many places where they were commonplace not so long ago. So cigarettes, while not actually illegal, are certainly much more restricted than they were 20 or even 10 years ago.

But in general, my comment was directed at the "but what about booze?" crowd.

You seem to be arguing that pot should remain illegal because otherwise more people would use it.

No. I am just arguing that legalizing pot would probably result in an increase in usage, full stop. As some seem to be debating against the truth of that assertion.

Look, I'm afraid I'm going to have to weasel on you. I knew that someone would probably ask these questions, and I decided ahead of time that I would openly weasel.

I like a person who has the guts to say that they are openly weaseling. Thank you for that.

This is a thread about marijuana. I started it out of curiosity. In my experience, there seems to be no particularly strong public desire for pot to stay illegal. (I've found that the same is not necessarily true of other drugs.) And yet, there seems to be great resistance (from where, I don't know) to making marijuana legal. I'm curious why.

Never discount the force of legal inertia. If pot were legal as cigarettes now, and had never been illegal, chances are that it would be extremely difficult to make it illegal. Like cigarettes now - despite what I said in the first paragraph, I don't think that you could just out and out make cigarettes illegal - it would cause too much of a hue and cry. So what we see are gradual steps, that have the cumulative effect of making life much more difficult for smokers.

Another example of legal inertia is in the case of taxes. There is no tax like an old tax. Here in Canada, the Progressive Conservative Party replaced an old, hidden manufacturers tax (at 13.5% I believe) with a new, transparent Goods and Services Tax levied at the cash register (at 7%). The new tax was part of the platform when they were elected, but the election was largely fought on the issue of free trade. After they introduced the tax, they were vilified. The next election had the Liberal Party promising to "scrap the GST". The PC party went from a majority government to 2 seats in the House of Commons. That is not enough to even be recognized as an official party. The Liberals, meanwhile, did not scrap the GST, and we still pay it to this day.

The point is, people get used to the current situation. People are used to paying the GST, people are used to cigarettes being legal, and people are used to pot being illegal. So while on a philosophical level you can say we need a good reason to make something illegal, and absent that then it should be legal, on a practical level what you need is a good reason to change the current legal status quo.

Marijuana use, for good or ill, has been characterized as a social morality issue. These things just tend to take time to develop and change. 30 years ago, the very idea of gay marriage was thought to be utterly ridiculous. We see that changing for the better each year. Hopefully, in another 30 years the idea of not having gay marriage will be seen as just as ridiculous.

I know that you were hoping for some better argument about why pot is still illegal than "because people are used to it", but in practical terms I think that is the biggest reason.

 

[Random]

Make it legal. I think that cocaine should be legal. Remove the profit incentive generated by the black market, remove much of the crime. Seems simple to me. People are going to use it and ruin their lives regardless of whether or not it's legal.

I’ve said it before. Keep it illegal for citizens to possess, but offer it for free to individuals who register and come to government run drug dosage clinics. They watch a brief video urging them to seek treatment for their addiction and then they receive a dose of their preferred substance in a relatively safe and clean environment. Make it a choice between illegal street drugs and free legal drugs then let market forces take over.

 

[steverino]

... I don't have the time nor am I exactly in the right mood to debate my inherently unpopular position...

I know the feeling. Throw out an alternate viewpoint and they pile on you like a fumbled football. Go Bears.

 

[steverino]

My brother's drug of choice is alcohol. In fact, far more people's brothers have screwed up their lives with alcohol than they ever did with pot or cocaine. Yet, it remains legal.

OK. I'll bite, with a middle-brow response: Yes. We have alcohol abuse. So why do we need one more problem?

 

[slingblade]

OK. I'll bite, with a middle-brow response: Yes. We have alcohol abuse. So why do we need one more problem?

I don't see it as being a problem. Nor do I see it as "adding one more." We already have pot smokers.

I knew people in college these past 5 years who are lifelong pot smokers, smoke every day, and were making the dean's list and president's list every semester. A couple of them said it didn't get them high anymore at all. But it did help them concentrate and stay more calm.

Anecdotal, I know, but there appear to be new studies out there that back this up.

 

[Thanz]

A couple of them said it didn't get them high anymore at all. But it did help them concentrate and stay more calm.

Doesn't this seem to go against those who are claiming there are no chemically addictive properties to it? They use it not to get high but to concentrate and stay calm? They can't do that without it? Sounds like an excuse to use to me, rather than any scientific argument that pot makes ya smarter.

So, I'm saying I'd have to see those studies you referred to before I put much stock in this. In my experience, the people getting top marks were not the people smoking pot every day.

 

[slingblade]

Doesn't this seem to go against those who are claiming there are no chemically addictive properties to it? They use it not to get high but to concentrate and stay calm? They can't do that without it? Sounds like an excuse to use to me, rather than any scientific argument that pot makes ya smarter.

I never said it made them smarter. I did imply it didn't seem to make them dumber. As far as I know, they've always been smart. But they've always had concentration problems, too.

If that's an addictive property, however, then are anti-depressants also addictive? Because that's what a lot of people use those for. It is being shown now that marijuana may be a good SSRI.

And yes, some people do need some sort of chemical "helper" to stay calm and focused. Sorry for that reality, but there it is. As a mother of 2 ADD sons, and as one who has it as well, I know first-hand that my brain sits in a chemical bath....but apparently I have a bathtub ring that's hard to get through.

So, I'm saying I'd have to see those studies you referred to before I put much stock in this. In my experience, the people getting top marks were not the people smoking pot every day.

I said it was anecdotal. Your experiences may often differ from mine. But new studies seem to be backing up these properties.

 

[Snide]

No. I am just arguing that legalizing pot would probably result in an increase in usage, full stop. As some seem to be debating against the truth of that assertion.

I don't see how any reasonable person would disagree with this totally or even to a large degree. I think the "but it's illegal now, and we still have potheads" argument is not to disprove your claim, but rather to suggest that it's perhaps over-emphasized.

I personally think pot being illegal but booze not is quite laughable.

That said, I agree with you. Pot use would go up quite a bit once legalized...no doubt in my mind. Myself as an anecdote, the only thing that keeps me from it is I have too much to lose should I get busted. It's just not worth the risk. I enjoy enough other things so as not to miss it anyway. And I doubt I'd become a pothead were it legal. I enjoy alcoholic beverages, but never beyond one or two anymore, and maybe once a month do I even have one drink. Drives me nuts that when my sister invites us over, they only have alcoholic beverages to drink. No Diet Coke (my real vice!).

But even so, I know for certain I'd smoke more pot were it legal (even once is more than not at all).

 

[BPSCG]

offer it for free to individuals who register and come to government run drug dosage clinics. They watch a brief video urging them to seek treatment for their addiction

Marijuana is addictive? Since when?

I applaud myself for kicking the addiction cold turkey when I was in college, and turn my unbridled scorn on ye who are too weak to overcome your base pleasures.

 

[steverino]

It is being shown now that marijuana may be a good SSRI.

Now we are back to the "medical marijuana" argument. I think the argument here is about "self-medicating." A doctor perscribes the SSRI dosage, and monitors the patient for side effects. And a doctor perscribes THC or other marijuana item for medical marijuana. I feel that if someone prone to depression smokes pot every day and says it is for depression, then I think the marijuana just might be adding to it, and that a 12-Step program would make more sense. And the last time I checked, the 12-Step program is perfectly legal.

 

[steverino]

If you're willing to travel three thousand miles for a steak and a stout, the least I could do is offer you food and drink...

Sounds great, BEEPS! You supply the dinner, and I'll bring the weed!

 

[boooeee]

I just don't see the benefit in making it legal.

To me, the main benefit is that we would free up a lot of law enforcement resources and unclog our prisons. Okay, maybe not unclog, but they'd probably smell better.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I wonder what benefits we are "enjoying" because it is illegal.

For some reason, I have always had the philosophy that people should be allowed to do what they will, as long as they don't infringe on other people's rights. I doubt that making MJ illegal fit's that philosophy. Then again, there are plenty of laws that don't.

 

[AmateurScientist]

Ah, but if being obese was illegal, and the government then made it legal, would it not be condonation then?

No, and frankly that's a rather poor rationalization.

AS

 

[luchog]

And I have to ask, is this opinion, or can that be backed by some kinds of studies or other evidence? Because I have heard or read that the increase would be marginal. But I have no idea which is true, more true, or just plain wrong.

I'd like to know, as certainly as it is possible to know.

When the Netherlands decriminalized cannabis, there was a net reduction in usage rates, preceded by a short, temporary spike.