The Bible is 100% true and to be read literally

Huntster said:
So?
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So, if the bible has errors, it can't be 100% literally inerrant. No matter how small or insignificant the error.

Really, these arguments would be a lot shorter if the literal bible-advocates weren't arguing in the absolute. It doesn't help them spread the word to people that can read and have a brain.
 
jesus_freak
The main point of this is from a response to kurious_kathy here. I’m still waiting on a response. It does nicely illustrate a couple of biblical contradictions and inconsistencies.

Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies. The prophecies are to declare to the world who the messiah is. They are not an after the fact occurrence. The messianic prophecies were not fulfilled, not by Jesus or anyone else for that matter.

If either lineage (they’re both different) reported in the bible for Jesus is correct then God directly excluded Jesus from the Davidic lineage.

Portions of the Davidic genealogical list from: (bolding mine)

Matthew:
Jeconiah
Salathiel
Zerrubbabel
Adiud

Luke:
Addi
Melchi
Shealtiel (same as Salathiel)
Zerrubbabel
Rhesa

Let me mention the obvious biblical error first.
(bible quotes from New International Version)
According to Romans 1:1-4
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jesus being of Davidic decent is necessary to fulfill one of the requirements for the messiah. However, the genealogies given in Matthew 1:1-16 and Luke 3:23-38 both try to link Jesus to David through Joseph. Revelant parts below
Matthew 1: 15-16
Eliud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Luke 3:23-24
Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
the son of Heli, the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, the son of Melki,
the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,

The Catholics do some hand waving and claim the genealogy of Matthew is for Mary, however a direct reading (translation) proves that claim incorrect.

It would appear the genealogical lists were written by people that as Dr X said, “not thinking that their works would end up in the same canon”?

Back to the main point. Yahweh didn’t like the Jehoakim clan of which Zerrubbabel was a member, reference Chronicles 3:16-19 and Ezra 3:2.
Yahweh ordered the removal of that particular line from the lineage of David. (bolding mine)

Jeremiah 22: 28-30
Is this man Jehoiachin a despised, broken pot,
an object no one wants?
Why will he and his children be hurled out,
cast into a land they do not know?

O land, land, land,
hear the word of the LORD!

This is what the LORD says:
"Record this man as if childless,
a man who will not prosper in his lifetime,
for none of his offspring will prosper,
none will sit on the throne of David
or rule anymore in Judah."

The Davidic line was just broken by Yahweh.
But wait, there’s more.

Jeremiah 36: 27-32
After the king burned the scroll containing the words that Baruch had written at Jeremiah's dictation, the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah: "Take another scroll and write on it all the words that were on the first scroll, which Jehoiakim king of Judah burned up. Also tell Jehoiakim king of Judah, 'This is what the LORD says: You burned that scroll and said, "Why did you write on it that the king of Babylon would certainly come and destroy this land and cut off both men and animals from it?" Therefore, this is what the LORD says about Jehoiakim king of Judah: He will have no one to sit on the throne of David; his body will be thrown out and exposed to the heat by day and the frost by night. I will punish him and his children and his attendants for their wickedness; I will bring on them and those living in Jerusalem and the people of Judah every disaster I pronounced against them, because they have not listened.' "
So Jeremiah took another scroll and gave it to the scribe Baruch son of Neriah, and as Jeremiah dictated, Baruch wrote on it all the words of the scroll that Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire. And many similar words were added to them.


Jehoiakim angered Yahweh to the point that he and his lineage were cast out of the Davidic lineage. Therefore in both Matthew and Luke the genealogies listed for Jesus are broken and Jesus cannot claim Davidic decent, as per Yahew’s direct reported orders.

If you want another, how many disciples were present at Jesus’s appearance at Jerusalem? Hint: compare John and Luke.

Ossai
 
jesus_freak said:
Here is an interesting question...What is going to happen to you after you die? Are you just going to become worm food?...will you be reincarnated? ...does everyone go to Heaven? You all seem to know so much I am curious!
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I'm a bit late to this thread but I'd like to address this question.

What happens to us after we die? I assume you want to know what happens to our consciousness after we die. Nobody knows. No one has ever genuinely died and brought back evidence or even testimonial of what lies "beyond death". Based on evidence I strongly suspect that our consciousness is an emergent property of the arrangement of matter in our brains and that when that arrangement is destroyed our consciousness simply becomes extinct. However I don't claim to know this with absolute certainty. Your last sentence above strikes me as ironic as I'm quite sure that you are the one who claims to know with certainty what lies "beyond death".
 
I had a visit from some Jehovah's Witnesses on Saturday. I kept them in my front yard for about an hour (sparing some of my neighbors) with a polite discussion of their beliefs and mine. The gentleman was firm in his beliefs and every response was based on the Bible. I asked him about Cain's wife and he immediately answered that it was his sister. The younger trainee with him looked surprised by this answer. We had a nice talk about religion(s) and the nature of faith and he asked me to read a small paperback book he had in his briefcase. I agreed, on the condition that he read Demon Haunted World by Sagan. I told him he could probably find it in the public library. He said he would read it and come back in a few weeks to continue our discussion.
 
He won't read it.

JWs are explicitly barred from reading dissenting theologies (or atheist tracts).
 
He said that he knew of Sagan from the Cosmos program and respected him. I am interested in seeing if he brings young Dominic back with him or if he returns alone. I'm afraid Dominic required deprogramming after our initial encounter.

Years ago I got some JWs to read A Brief History of Time using this same tactic.
 
RenaissanceBiker said:
I had a visit from some Jehovah's Witnesses on Saturday. I kept them in my front yard for about an hour (sparing some of my neighbors) with a polite discussion of their beliefs and mine. The gentleman was firm in his beliefs and every response was based on the Bible. I asked him about Cain's wife and he immediately answered that it was his sister. The younger trainee with him looked surprised by this answer. We had a nice talk about religion(s) and the nature of faith and he asked me to read a small paperback book he had in his briefcase. I agreed, on the condition that he read Demon Haunted World by Sagan. I told him he could probably find it in the public library. He said he would read it and come back in a few weeks to continue our discussion.
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Do you really think you will be able to read that book, without stopping after a few sentences?

By the way, does he think God is omnipotent? :) In that case I wonder what he'll say to the omnipotence paradox.
 
jesus freak said:
Sorry but no it is Satan that causes you to sin!
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chris epic said:
Satan tempts, he causes nothing
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acuity said:
I knew it wasn't my fault. Excellent!
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This is kind of a nit, but it seems to me that unless one takes a particularly restrictive view of causation, diabolical temptation (hypothetically, of course) could be considered a causal antecedent for sin without relieving the human agent of culpability, whether or not temptation was a causa sine qua non.
 
Cain and Origins of Others

RenaissanceBiker said:
This is from the evolution thread where I agreed not to bring up inconsistencies in Genesis. I really didn't think we would get a bible thread going. Who did Cain believe would kill him? There appear to be only 3 people in the whole world, Adam, Eve and Cain. A similar question involves the origin of Cain's wife. Where did she come from? JF, were there other people in the world besides the clan of Adam? What is the literal biblical explanation of their origin?
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Cain believed a relative (through his parents) might kill him. The Bible does not indicate population at the time. Many families have six or seven children within ten or fifteen years. Ages listed literally in the Bible allow for thousands within the adult lifetimes of the three mentioned. (Josephus records Jewish belief that Adam and Eve had over 50 children.) BUT if population only doubled every 20 years, within 180 years, total births would hit 1024. The Bible states original human life spans of hundreds of years.

While it is unacceptable NOW for brother and sisters to marry, this was not God's law until 2,500 years after the creation. Biblically, all human life came from Adam and Eve. (That is easier to swallow than the population of the world descending from nonliving matter...or jellyfish...or apes.) At least on this point the Bible does not contradict itself.
 
I do intend to read it, and insert post-it notes that address the logical errors and where statements conflict with established scientific fact.
 
(That is easier to swallow than the population of the world descending from nonliving matter...or jellyfish...or apes.)
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As if there were any other kind.
 
Welcome to the discussion, 2LifeGuy. I disagree with you about creationism is "easier to swallow" than science, but I look forward to discussing it with you.
 
2LifeGuy said:
While it is unacceptable NOW for brother and sisters to marry, this was not God's law until 2,500 years after the creation. Biblically, all human life came from Adam and Eve. (That is easier to swallow than the population of the world descending from nonliving matter...or jellyfish...or apes.) At least on this point the Bible does not contradict itself.
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This sort of extrapolation requires the assumption that the Bible is incomplete concerning some pretty major elements of the creation story. Eve's birth of Cain's wife, for example.

I find it strange that you find it difficult to swallow that the world population descended from nonliving matter, since this is precisely what the Bible describes when God constructed Adam from the dirt. I think what you're trying to say is that you have a hard time swallowing the process happening without magic.
 
Thanks for the welcome...

I don't think spontaneous generation is part of science, but willing to see the evidence.

Here's one I'm sure will smush the "newbie" in me... I believe science and the Bible do not conflict with regard to how the universe, life and the earth operate. The exception: Since God is outside of his creation, he can and does exert his will from time to time, as seen in miracles described.
 
2LifeGuy said:
(That is easier to swallow than the population of the world descending from nonliving matter...or jellyfish...or apes.)
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Only if you've failed to take advantage of the opportunity to educate yourself. If a magic sky-fairy is easier to swallow than almost any other concept, then you are wearing blinders.
 
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