"Evolution isn't science"

Deceptive Fossil Interpretations of Evolutionists
by Harun Yahya Ph.D
Before going into the details of the myth of human evolution, we need to mention the propaganda method that has convinced the general public of the idea that half-man half-ape creatures once lived in the past. This propaganda method makes use of "reconstructions" made in reference to fossils. Reconstruction can be explained as drawing a picture or constructing a model of a living thing based on a single bone-sometimes only a fragment-that has been unearthed. The "ape-men" we see in newspapers, magazines, or films are all reconstructions.
Since fossils are usually fragmented and incomplete, any conjecture based on them is likely to be completely speculative. As a matter of fact, the reconstructions (drawings or models) made by the evolutionists based on fossil remains are prepared speculatively precisely to validate the evolutionary thesis. David R. Pilbeam, an eminent anthropologist from Harvard, stresses this fact when he says: "At least in paleoanthropology, data are still so sparse that theory heavily influences interpretations. Theories have, in the past, clearly reflected our current ideologies instead of the actual data".1 Since people are highly affected by visual information, these reconstructions best serve the purpose of evolutionists, which is to convince people that these reconstructed creatures really existed in the past.
IMAGINARY AND DECEPTIVE DRAWINGS

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In pictures and reconstructions, evolutionists deliberately give shape to features that do not actually leave any fossil traces, such as the structure of the nose and lips, the shape of the hair, the form of the eyebrows, and other bodily hair so as to support evolution. They also prepare detailed pictures depicting these imaginary creatures walking with their families, hunting, or in other instances of their daily lives. However, these drawings are all figments of the imagination and have no counterpart in the fossil record.
At this point, we have to highlight one particular point: Reconstructions based on bone remains can only reveal the most general characteristics of the creature, since the really distinctive morphological features of any animal are soft tissues which quickly vanish after death. Therefore, due to the speculative nature of the interpretation of the soft tissues, the reconstructed drawings or models become totally dependent on the imagination of the person producing them. Earnst A. Hooten from Harvard University explains the situation like this:
To attempt to restore the soft parts is an even more hazardous undertaking. The lips, the eyes, the ears, and the nasal tip leave no clues on the underlying bony parts. You can with equal facility model on a Neanderthaloid skull the features of a chimpanzee or the lineaments of a philosopher. These alleged restorations of ancient types of man have very little if any scientific value and are likely only to mislead the public… So put not your trust in reconstructions.2
THREE DIFFERENT RECONSTRUCTIONS BASED ON THE SAME SKULL

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As a matter of fact, evolutionists invent such "preposterous stories" that they even ascribe different faces to the same skull. For example, the three different reconstructed drawings made for the fossil named Australopithecus robustus (Zinjanthropus), are a famous example of such forgery.
The biased interpretation of fossils and outright fabrication of many imaginary reconstructions are an indication of how frequently evolutionists have recourse to tricks. Yet these seem innocent when compared to the deliberate forgeries that have been perpetrated in the history of evolution.


References:
1. David R. Pilbeam, "Rearranging Our Family Tree", Nature, June 1978, p. 40.
2. Earnest A. Hooton, Up From The Ape, New York: McMillan, 1931, p. 332.
 
National Geographic magazine joins the dating game
by John Woodmorappe
© John Woodmorappe. All Rights Reserved.
[Last Modified: 11 March 2002]
Recent National Geographic article fails to portray the commonly used age-determination methods either accurately or objectively. The fact that the readership largely consists of unsuspecting laypeople makes this all the more inexcusable. All dating methods related to the unobservable past rely on unverifiable assumptions, chief of which is the one about closed systems. Furthermore, all dating methods involve the subjective evaluation of data and results, so much so, that their veracity must seriously be questioned. Recent attempts to extend the radiocarbon (14C) dating method back in time provide an instructive example of how age determinations are manipulated.
National Geographic magazine (NG), an American periodical, is well known worldwide for its beautiful photographs and outstanding depictions of nations and cultures.(1) Owing to its usual excellence, it has been translated into several languages.
Unfortunately, and especially so in recent years, National Geographic magazine has increasingly deviated from the subject of geography and become a virtual propaganda mouthpiece for evolutionary speculations. Its pro-evolutionary fanaticism has led to a severe lack of discernment, even extending to pushing frauds, such as the 'Piltdown Bird' it called Archaeoraptor, which they claimed (before publishing a far less prominent retraction) as proof that dinosaurs evolved into birds - see Smithsonian criticizes National Geographic's Dino-to-Bird Claims and On the Alleged Dinosaurian Ancestry of Birds.
Many years ago, its promotion of Zinjanthropus boisei as an 'ape-man' and even the 'missing link' had a great effect on the young (9-yr-old). Now even evolutionists have abandoned this creature, now called Paranthropus, as a missing link, but the effect was profound at the time. Later, as an adult and ex-evolutionist, Dr. Wieland was determined to produce a magazine as high in outward quality but promoting the truth - hence Creation Magazine was born.
A recent NG article(2) has presented the unsuspecting reader with a totally one-sided and uncritical portrayal of the dating methods used by conventional (uniformitarian) geologists. Evidently, NG is now being pressed into service as a cheerleader for the dogmas of the old Earth and Universe.
Dates: Assumptions and Data Manipulation
National Geographic hardly mentions a word about the many dubious assumptions of isotopic dating (see also Q&A: Radiometric Dating). To rectify this situation, I briefly outline here some of the many fallacies of isotopic dating(3) and discuss some recent developments in the field of age determination.
The NG article lumps all dating methods together, regardless of their assumptions or the span of time supposedly measured by the dating method. Implicitly, it seems there is a deceptive equating of different dating methods. That is, the article discusses forensic entomology, the use of certain insects' life cycles to help determine how long a human corpse or skeleton had been buried. However, we can follow the insects' life stages in their entirety. By contrast, dating methods that are alleged to measure geologic events of millions and billions of years clearly depend on unverified and unverifiable assumptions. Who was there when the universe or Earth formed?
The Hubble Constant is highlighted in the National Geographic article, and conventionally accepted cosmogonies are presented as proof for the old age of the Universe. Alternate interpretations are not even hinted at, despite many flaws in conventional big bang cosmology. Similarly, the National Geographic article tells the reader that the oldest rock from Earth dates at 4.03 billion years. This is not true. There have been much 'older' dates obtained, by various dating methods and from different locations on Earth, some of which exceed 10 billion years. Nevertheless, because the age of the Earth is conventionally accepted at 4.6 billion years, these older 'dates' have been ignored or explained away.
All isotopic dating methods are based on the radioactive decay of certain nuclides and the associated production of daughter isotopes. How can we be certain that radioactive decay rates have not changed in the past? The NG article assures the reader that they have been constant for all time. Actually, it was once believed that external physical processes could only alter decay rates, at most, by a few percent. Now we realize that there are physical processes capable of hugely changing radioactive decay rates of certain radioactive isotopes. In fact, stripping an atom entirely of electrons has speeded up beta decay by a factor of a billion. If we assume a different history of the early Universe, it is possible that at least the Re-Os and Lu-Hf 'clocks' produced billions of years worth of radiogenic isotopes in only one day. Nuclear physicists Drs. Eugene Chaffin and Russell Humphreys suggest that the nuclear decay rate was highly accelerated during Creation Week and possibly during the Flood year. They support this theoretically by applying quantum mechanics and the effect of the Universe's expansion, and evidentially by the amount of helium still retained in minerals, and radiohalos.(4)
All dating methods assume a closed system - that no isotopes were gained or lost by the rock since it formed. There is no way of knowing if this was the case. Moreover, whenever dates obtained from rocks are not acceptable to existing geologic theories, the assumptions are suddenly reversed, and we are told that those particular rocks must have become open systems! Obviously, uniformitarian geologists want to have it both ways.
Open system behavior has been investigated experimentally by heating igneous rocks. The results have been used to argue that, apart from exceptional situations (where rocks are heated up to at least several hundred degrees Centigrade), it is very difficult for rocks to become open systems. However, we now realize that hydrothermal waters, at temperatures of only a few hundred degrees Centigrade, can readily move chemical species from one rock system to another.(5) Even rocks which show no microscopic evidence of alteration often give 'impossible' dates, so uniformitarian geologists tell us that these rocks have become open systems - even when independent evidence is completely absent.
Conventional (uniformitarian) geologists usually claim that, if dates are consistent, this proves closed systems. But, to begin with, the majority of dates are not consistent for the same rock. Second, the claims about consistency, despite their intuitive appeal, are themselves assumptions, and some of these assumptions have already been proved incorrect. For instance, it had long been supposed that if the data points formed a straight line on an 'eisochron graph' then the resultant 'date' was valid. But now we know that meaningless isochrons can be 'inherited' from pre-existing rocks. Furthermore, the points on an isochron can be rotated during subtle open-system events yet still maintain a straight line on the graph. Third, uniformitarian geologists violate their own principle when they reject 'impossible' dates even if they are consistent with each other.
It is not generally realised that most dates obtained from rocks are thrown out for one reason or another. This sobering fact is not even vaguely hinted at in the NG article. Sometimes it is claimed that geologists know which date is valid and which is not, but there are many situations when there are conflicting dates. Even uniformitarian geologists themselves cannot agree which date to accept and which to reject. So much for that claim! Some examples of conflicting dates are:
• Charred wood, buried by a basalt lava flow, was 14C-'dated' at about 45,000 years old, but the basalt was K-Ar 'dated' at 37 million years old. See Radioactive 'Dating' in Conflict!
• The Hawkesbury Sandstone is assigned a Middle Triassic 'age' of around 225-230 million, yet it contained fossil wood with 14C activity, although this should be non-existent if the wood were truly more than about 100,000 years old. See Dating Dilemma.
Isotopic dates carry a great deal of self-congratulatory baggage. For instance, the NG article mentions uranium-lead dates from zircons as having survived multiple cycles of igneous processes (like bricks can be reused to construct more than one building). But there is usually no independent way of knowing this, and the inherited-zircon rationalization is invoked, after-the-fact, whenever zircons give U-Pb dates that are older than expected for the rock. In other words, instead of questioning the validity of the dating method, uniformitarians tell us that the zircon minerals originally crystallized in some older rock, but had become freed and entrapped in the younger magma, which eventually became their present host igneous rock!
We sometimes hear the claim that the dates must be valid because they give dates in the millions and billions of years. But modern lavas frequently give anomalously old dates in the millions to billions of years. For example:
• Several 20th century andesite lava flows from Mt. Ngauruhoe, New Zealand gave potassium-argon (K- Ar) 'dates' from <0.27 to 3.5 million years. See Radioactive dating failure.
• A 1986 dacite lava dome at Mt St Helens volcano gave a (K-Ar) "date" of method as 0.35 ± 0.5 million years old. See Radio-dating in rubble.
I have yet to hear a uniformitarian suggest that this proves that modern lava flows are actually millions to billions of years old!
Nor has it been proved that there is a consistent trend between isotopic dates and the relative dates of the fossil-bearing rocks. To evaluate this claim, we would have to see all of the dates obtained (note that most discrepant dates are not published) and these would have to be weighted for the size of the igneous outcrop. Only then could we say whether there is a 'younging-up' trend of isotopic dates relative to the claimed progressively younger fossils. And even if such a trend actually exists, it could potentially be explained through geochemical processes without any of the dates themselves being valid age-indicators at all.
Some Recent Developments in 'Age Determination'
I now focus on those dating methods which are claimed to give dates from several thousand years to about 1 million years, as these are cited in the National Geographic article, particularly with reference to presumed human evolution.
Let us consider attempts to check carbon-14 dates with other supposed indicators of time. It was recently claimed that a count of presumably annual varves at Lake Suigetsu, Japan, agreed with 14C dates to at least 38,000 years before the present.(6) Conventional uniformitarian thinking would maintain that this agreement is powerful evidence for the accuracy of the dates: After all, we have agreement between two completely independent dating systems. Furthermore, one of the dating methods does not even require radioactive decay.
Well, not so fast, as it recently has turned out. As dates from other 'time indicators' became available, the majority of them strongly disagreed with 14C. These new dates typically gave values as much as 10,000 years older than carbon-14 (within the 14C range of dates spanning 30,000 to 40,000 years before the present).(7) Note that these dates are published, and so are presumably the 'good' dates. So what is to be done with the data from Lake Suigetsu? As always, whenever an age determination falls out of favor, a rationalization must be invoked to justify its rejection. As documented in my earlier-cited works,[3] there exists an elaborate Orwellian language for routinely dealing with unwanted dates. In the case of Lake Suigetsu, a set of 'missing varves' was invoked.(8)
But what if the Lake Suigetsu data remains favored, for one reason or another? Never fear. Other rationalizations are available, just in case, for the data that disagrees with the Lake Suigetsu 14C chronology. These include incorrect initial- 230Th correction for the 230Th dates, unsupported gain or loss of uranium or thorium, a variety of possible errors in the correlation of deep-sea cores, etc.(9)
Conclusion
National Geographic magazine has only presented the positive spin about the dating methods. Of course, it is hardly alone in its rosy portrayal of age-determination methods. Owing to the centrality of the old-Earth dogma in our culture, the maintenance of public belief in dating methods is of the utmost priority. On this basis, it is hardly surprising that the unsuspecting layperson, as well as the innocent child in the classroom, is taught that the dates that are determined by the dating methods are gospel truth. It is all the more important for creationist scientists to expose the flawed claims of all the presumed methods of age determination, and to get the word out to the general public about this misinformation.


References:
1. My now-late father and I have maintained a subscription to National Geographic for over 30 years.
2. Zimmer, C., How old is it? National Geographic 200(3):78_101, 2001.
3. Those readers interested in studying the fallacies of isotopic-dating systems in detail should consult my books: Woodmorappe, J., Studies in Flood Geology, 2nd Edition, El Cajon, CA: USA, Institute for Creation Research, 1999; as well as Woodmorappe, J., The Mythology of Modern Dating Methods, El Cajon, CA: USA, Institute for Creation Research, 1999.
4. See their chapters in Vardiman, L. Snelling, A.A. and Chaffin, E.F., eds., Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth , El Cajon, California (Institute for Creation Research) and Missouri (Creation Research Society), 2000.
5. For more documentation, Snelling, A.A., Geochemical Processes in Mantle and Crust, ch. 5 in Vardiman et al., Ref. 4.
6. Kitagawa, H. and van der Plicht, J., Atmospheric radiocarbon calibration to 45,000 yr B.P.: Late glacial fluctuations and cosmogenic isotope production, Science 279(5354):1187_1190, 20 February 1998; see Figure 1.
7. Beck, J.W., et al. Extremely large variations of atmospheric 14C concentration during the last glacial period, Science 292(5526):2453_2458, 29 June 2001; see Fig. 3, p. 2455. Ironically, it was an anti-creationist who brought this paper to my attention (via an intermediary) as proof of how wonderful dating methods are. He shouldn't have!
8. Bard, E., Extending the calibrated radiocarbon record, Science 292(5526):2443_2444, 29 June 2001.
9. Beck, Ref. , p. 2454.
 
Thanks for the in toto transcription RY, I'm just going to hit on a few points am most familiar with so I'm going to snip your responses and those by Intructor/Student I feel have been addressed already:

Student: But prof, what about the Neanderthals? They are supposed to be the ones we most recently evolved from—and they had larger braincases than we have!
Average H. neandertalensis skulls are about 1400cc. H. sapiens about 1300 cc. The difference isn't that much. What is different is the morphology. Check out this comparison of a Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal skull
http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/nead_sap_comp.html
Student: But prof, artists cannot tell us what ancient man looked like. Bone fragments cannot reveal how much hair was on the body. In addition, we know that our backbones are designed for upright walking. The spines of the apes cause them to hump over and "knuckle walk."
This is not correct. Apes actually are quadrapeds and the determining factor is the hole at the base of the skull called the Foramen Magnum. In other ape species the foramen magnum is located lined up with their posterior whereas in humans it's located lined up with our feet (also posterior, but that's the quirks of bipedalism). Every hominid species we have a skull including the base has the foramen magnum located at the base rather than the rear of the skull. Check out Taung Child.
http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/taung1.html
However, there was one additional feature to the Taung Child that was not easily explained away as a characteristic of an immature ape. The position of the foramen magnum, or the hole through which the spinal chord connects with the brain, was positioned well to the front of the skull, an adaptation of a bipedal creature whose head would rest atop the neck in a relatively balanced position. Conversely, a quadrupedal ape whose head would rest in front of the neck, would need a foramen magnum positioned to the rear of the head to keep its eyes facing forward, and not down, as it moved. If this truly was a chimpanzee, and not an early human, why the forward positioning of the foramen magnum?

Student: But prof, even Darwin's defender, Thomas Huxley, said the Neanderthals were humans and did not prove evolution. Rudolph Virchow, a leading German anatomist, said their bones were slightly deformed from rickets and arthritis. As for the heavy brow ridges, there are peoples living today who have them. What about that Neanderthal found in a medieval suit of chain armor, not fully rusted?
Virchow's observations simply don't match u with the physical evidence.
Rickets does not produce a Neandertal, or Homo erectus morphology; it is clear from many sources (Reader 1981; Tattersall 1995) that the original Neandertal skeleton was unlike any previously known, even in a century in which rickets was a common disease.
Evidence of rickets is easily detectable, especially on the growing ends of the long bones of the body. Radiology courses routinely teach the symptoms. It has never (so far as I know) been detected in Neandertals or Homo erectus.
Even Virchow did not claim rickets as a sole cause. Virchow in 1872 decided that the first Neandertal Man fossil had had rickets in childhood, head injuries in middle age, and chronic arthritis in old age. A whole population of such people strains credibility, to say the least, although Lubenow says that this diagnosis "is as valid today as when [Virchow] first made it".
The long bones of Neandertals, like those of rickets victims, are often more curved than normal, but rickets causes a sideways curvature of the femur, while Neandertal femurs curve backwards (Klein 1989).
Humans could hardly have stayed in shelter all the time; food gathering would have required them to spend a lot of time outside (and probably a lot more time than most modern urban humans).
The most extreme differences from modern humans (H. erectus) are mostly found in regions such as Africa and Java, which were always tropical; the reverse of what would be predicted by Lubenow's hypothesis.
Creationists usually claim that most of the fossil record was laid down by the Noahaic Flood. And yet there are hundreds of fossils of "post-Flood" humans, who supposedly lived in a period of low population and little fossilization. Why, underneath these post-Flood humans, do we not find far larger numbers of fossilized pre-Flood humans?

Instructor: Well, we also have the Cro-Magnons. These may be the missing link.
Student: But prof, why is it that, each time, only one specimen is found? Why are only little pieces of bone found for each specimen—never a complete skeleton? Careful anatomists declare that, using a few pieces, one can attempt to prove almost anything. Why is it those bones never decayed, though they are supposed to be over a million years old?
Cro-Magnan are H sapiens. And while we are lucky to find any skeletons at all, given how difficult fossilization can be (we don't find many chimp, other ape fossils becuase they live in jungles not ammenable to fossilization), we actually have some amazing finds. Not the last of which is the nearly complete Turkana Boy.
http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/WT15k.html

Student: But prof, repeatedly finds of old bones have turned out to be fakes: Java Man, Piltdown Man, Rhodesian Man, Taung African Man, Nebraska Man, Peking Man, and on and on. For example, Nebraska Man, which was the great discovery hailed at the 1925 Scopes trial in Dayton, Tennessee—turned out, a year later, to be nothing more than a pig's tooth.
The lies here just build up like layers of paint.
Java Man was a H. erectus. You might also enjoy this comparison of the Trinil 2 skull with Turkana Boy
Piltdown Man should not be cited by Creationists
More Piltdown Man
Rhodesian Man was an archaic H sapiens
I already provided a link to Taung Child btw, not Man, above. Taung is very important because it solved the question of which came first bipedalism or a large brain.
The Creationist mythology around Nebraska Man is far larger than ever was actually claimed by scientists. And from the link:
Creationists often claim that Nebraska Man was used as proof of evolution during the Scopes Monkey Trial in 1925, but this claim is apocryphal. No scientific evidence was presented at the trial. (Some evidence was read into the trial record, but even this did not refer to Nebraska Man.)
Peking Man was an H. erectus
Pathetic...

Student: But prof, perhaps other people buried the human bones. As for the ape bones, they have totally different DNA.[No they don't] Such radical changes in DNA just never occur.
Actually the genetic evidence for common ancestry is even more powerful than the fossil evidence.
Student: But prof, Guadeloupe Woman... {snip}
Instructor: That is just one example.
Student: More examples could be cited. There is the Calaveras skull, belonging to a modern-type man, yet fully mineralized in 2 million-year-old Pliocene stratum. Dozens of stone implements were found by it. Other examples would be the Castinedolo Skull in Italy, the Moab Skeletons in eastern Utah, and the human footprints in—
Ummm, yeah, about those... And all the rest below that I snipped are covered by that link.
 
JF, as has been said before, you really need to learn what the theory of evolution says.

The same is true for the famous horse series. Fossils of each type of supposed ancestor are of complete animals.

Of course they are complete animals, what else would they be? Incomplete animals?

They are not full of failed growths and there are no parts under construction. There are many more differences between each type of animal than their size and the number of toes.

Once again you are alluding to a "finished product." Evolution has no "finished product." Evolution doesn't say "Hmmm, I want to make 4 toes, so let's start now and in 2 million years we'll have it." All intermediary forms must have some advantage against the non-random death blow of natural selection.

Every change in structure, function, and process, between Hyracotherium (formerly Eohippus) and the horse would have had to have developed through random trial-and-error if evolution were true.

You are misrepresenting the theory. Mutation is random, natural selection is not. Any change in structure, function or process that bestows some survival benefit is selected for. Useless intermediaries do not occur. That is why every intermediate is a "complete animal."
 

Once again... a comic that seems to think there is some road upon which evolution travels. The implication here is that the all specimens of any particular species will always encounter the same selection pressure. That's just nonsense.The amphibian whose habitat is turning to desert due to climate change is under a decidedly different selection pressure than an amphibian sitting in a bug-infested bog in the tropics.
 
I've experienced the ilk of "Jesus_freak" before on numerous other message boards and here is their typical procedure that they never fail to follow and it comes in 2 types.

Procedure 1.
  1. Deny evolution/ make some absurd claim about evolution.
  2. Have claim refuted.
  3. Make more claims.
  4. Have claims refuted.
  5. Get angry
  6. Flood thread with numerous creationist articles.
  7. Have articles refuted.
  8. Flood with more creationist material.
  9. Ignore questions.
  10. Repeat.
Procedure 2.

  1. Deny evolution/ make some absurd claim about evolution.
  2. Have claim refuted.
  3. Make more claims.
  4. Have claims refuted.
  5. Get angry
  6. Run away
  7. Never return
Let's hope he takes a hint and follows procedure 2.
 
JF, you bring up these distorted arguments, most that seem more related to information supposedly aimed at the public than at real science. If you want to argue against evolution you have to deal with science. And you're stuck with the fact that science doesn't support your beliefs. It's as if you're trying to pry off splinters from a large building. You look at the splinters you've pryed off and think you have found flaws in the structure. Meanwhile there's this huge solid internally supported, soundly based structure that you aren't even seeing.

Think what it would be like if the evidence actually pointed toward a one week creation. Step back and imagine how completely different that would be from the situation we actually have. Imagine if all the different ways of dating fossils and rocks combined to produce one clear answer: 7000 years old. THis is what it should be like if Genesis were literally true as you picture it. But the actual evidence is completely the opposite. There is nothing remotely suggesting that everything appeared in one week. Your attempt to pick little holes in the evidence is useless compared to the fact that there is ZERO suggestion in the evidence for a one week creation 7000 years ago.

If your faith rests only on disproving the science of evolution, then your faith is on shaky grounds because the evidence for evolution is strong. If you want to hold a literal belief in the Bible, maybe you would be better off to choose the option of a 7000 year old earth which appears to all measurements as billions of years old (for reasons known only to God). (in this way you could have your literal belief but you wouldn't have to try to trash science.) Or consider choosing a nonliteral view of Genesis as many other Christians have done while still keeping a strong faith. If your faith requires you to argue against evolution and you choose to use arguments that are distortions of the actual scientific understanding of the subject, then it seems to me that you are bearing false witness.
 
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Don't you get it?

He's looking for the payoff. That one thing that'll make everyone go 'OOOOHHhhhhhh I hadn't thought of that!" The thing is, he doesn't know what that is, or would be.

It's kinda like the geek on any high-school based Sit-Com you've ever seen. He's crushed on the cutest girl in school, sure, but he'll never get her. He'll try and try, while she goes out and screws the entire football team, but he'll never get her. Why? Well, he doesn't know what to do, what to say, or how to say it, so he comes up with increasingly far fetched and idiotic ideas for achieving his goals.

BUT what if he did get her? One glorious, shining night, he gets her, all the way and willingly on her part? Wow.

That's the kind of payoff JF is looking for, but he has the same odds as our sit-com loser.

Why?

Because he has no idea of how things are done, how the game is played.
 
Don't you get it?

He's looking for the payoff. That one thing that'll make everyone go 'OOOOHHhhhhhh I hadn't thought of that!" The thing is, he doesn't know what that is, or would be.

It's kinda like the geek on any high-school based Sit-Com you've ever seen. He's crushed on the cutest girl in school, sure, but he'll never get her. He'll try and try, while she goes out and screws the entire football team, but he'll never get her. Why? Well, he doesn't know what to do, what to say, or how to say it, so he comes up with increasingly far fetched and idiotic ideas for achieving his goals.

BUT what if he did get her? One glorious, shining night, he gets her, all the way and willingly on her part? Wow.

That's the kind of payoff JF is looking for, but he has the same odds as our sit-com loser.

Why?

Because he has no idea of how things are done, how the game is played.


No. JF won't get that 'payoff' of all of us saying "ohh, I see now!" not because of his approach...

..But because what he's saying is B.S.
 
Well, that's kinda it, you see. He has no idea what science is or how it is done. It's a game he doesn't know the rules to.


So he fishes with increasingly insipid material, trying to reach his goal.


Science, like women, are a complete mystery to him, and, in the end, the game is simply beyond his reach.
But he doesn't realize it.

So, much like our lovable loser, he keeps trying, in his own desperate little way, to get through.


Bless his little heart.
 
by John Woodmorappe

John Woodmorappe is a pseudonym used by a Creationist to write for Creationist organs. He still publishes under his real name: and all his papers accept an old Universe/old Earth.

I didn't read all the gobbledygook posted in the quoted post, but Glenn Morton has a lot of great work showing the Earth is old.
http://home.entouch.net/dmd/age.htm
He's a geologist who was a former YEC and still believes in a literal Adam and Eve but fervently argues against a young Earth.
 
The distance from your elbow to the tip of your fingers...if Noah was twelve feet tall his cubit would be bigger than ours.

Twelve feet tall ?

Where does it say this ?

do you believe that it's possible for apes to evolve into humans? (There's an incredible amount of DNA evidence that supports their similarity).

I think that proves they had a common designer.

Even the DNA that serves no purpose that happens to be the same in both ?
 
You are misrepresenting the theory. Mutation is random, natural selection is not. Any change in structure, function or process that bestows some survival benefit is selected for. Useless intermediaries do not occur. That is why every intermediate is a "complete animal."

Actually, a useless mutation could endure, provided it didn't reduce the lifeform's survivability.
 
As a matter of fact, the reconstructions (drawings or models) made by the evolutionists based on fossil remains are prepared speculatively precisely to validate the evolutionary thesis.
Reconstructions are a standard part of paleontology and are admittedly speculative. They are prepared based on modern understanding of muscular proportion to bone. These animals could have had structures adaptations and behaviors that arent seen today. This is well known and well understood. The inaccuracy and degree of speculation involved with reconstructions cannot be used to invalidate modern paleontological theory or evolution.
 
If you want to start another thread on supposed Bible inaccuracies I will be more than happy to discuss it there with you but I am trying my best to keep this on evolution.

And what a big thread that would be!

You accept as truth that a talking snake gave Adam and Eve and apple, or that the Earth and everything in it was created in 6 days... I could go on.. Yet you cannot accept that a Whale and a Bear share a common ancestor in the form of some now extinct species of mammal even in the face of overwhelming evidence, logic and reason.

This is because it suits your weak mind to be told something and believe it without question. In fact I could show you, quite convincingly, that your credulous attitude is a result of evolution, however I would be wasting my time. You base your dogmatic beliefs on stories written and re-written in a book over a thousand years ago which, to any sane person who takes the time to question them, are obviously fiction.

You are a fool Jesus_freak.
 

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