"Evolution isn't science"

The distance from your elbow to the tip of your fingers...if Noah was twelve feet tall his cubit would be bigger than ours.

Having just read the first 9 chapters of Genesis I can safely say that no where in it does it say he is taller than anyone else. Maybe everyone was taller back then but the Bible doesn't say so and there is no archeological evidence to support it.
 
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I think the problem with this thread, and part of the reason it's not going to convince JF of anything, might just be that there are too many skeptics on it. That sounds strange, I'm sure, but consider this- Jesus_Freak hasn't posted in nine hours, even though he's the only creationist here, and there've been some forty posts demolishing him.

Almost everyone here is "attacking" him on some front- whether it's one poster pointing out contradictions in the Bible, another discussing tree rings, another speciation, another Noah, another carbon dating... And everyone's asking him "Why haven't you responded to my criticism?" Well, to be fair, even if the evidence WERE on his side, it would take hours for him to respond to everyone on this forum.

Who here could take on a group of twenty-odd creationists and respond to all of their arguments? We're actually doing something typical of creationists, actually- instead of explaining the strength of evolution, we're attacking inconsistencies in his argument. Creationists usually throw loads of specific questions about evolution ("How do you explain this and this... the second law of thermodynamics says... no transitional... random fluctuations...). Every individual argument can be addressed, but the entire debate will look like it favors the creationists, simply because they're saying the most and there's no way for the skeptic to respond to them all.

I disagree. Reading the thread from beginning to end, it's jesus_freak who's introduced all the new "arguments" (Flood! The appendix! Gill slits! Slavery! Leading mathematicians say it's impossible!) as the mood took him. We (well, not me, 'cos I've just been lurking) have challenged his assertions on each of these topics, as skeptics should. It's his fault if he's overwhelmed. He didn't have to come here, and he could have stuck to one topic.
 

That's a LOT of strawmen. The "instructor" suggests a lot of myths about evolution, like that man is "no longer evolving," that no evolutionist would use. The student also uses widely discredited arguments and examples, like the "Moab man" (http://www.answersincreation.org/moab_man.htm).

Maybe someone else will be interested in responding to each piece of this page, but for now I'll respond just to what you were probably referring to, about DNA evidence:

Instructor: There are many evidences of man's previous evolution from animals. It appears that he descended from apes or from an ape-like ancestor.

Student: But prof, our DNA is totally different than an ape's. The number and shape of vertebrae in our backbone is very different, and our brain capacity is much larger.

"Totally different"? Human DNA is only 1.24% divergent from chimpanzees, and 1.62% different from gorillas. Sources:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11170892
http://www.genome.org/cgi/content/full/13/5/813

This puts chimpanzees genetically closer to humans than any other known organism. Obviously we're quite different from chimpanzees physically, but horses are pretty different from donkeys- where do you draw the line?

ETA: To fix a link.
 
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Instructor: Today we are going to discuss how man emerged from his animal ancestors. One evidence of this is the fact that early man lived in caves.
What does this have to do with evolution?

Instructor: Another evidence is the fact that man is no longer evolving. This supports our theory that he stopped evolving about 100,000 years ago.
This is way wrong, first of all evolution is a continuous process, it wont stop until life stops. Second, all of humanity can be genetically (and paleontologically) traced to a single population that lived about 70,000 years ago, so most of the diversity of humanity has evolved since then.

Instructor: There are many evidences of man's previous evolution from animals. It appears that he descended from apes or from an ape-like ancestor.

Student: But prof, our DNA is totally different than an ape's. The number and shape of vertebrae in our backbone is very different, and our brain capacity is much larger.

We share about 95% of our DNA with chimpanzees. The fossil record shows a clear transition since our common ancestor with chimpanzees. I cite australopithecus, homo habilus, and homo erectus. The fossil record shows the changes in the pelvis and the changes in cranial capacity.

To Be Continued if jf doesnt say something worse till then.
 
Jesus Freak:

I've added some comments and questions in brackets to the text from your link below. Done off the top of my head, don't assume that just because I didn't comment on something that I agree with it. I edited some out to comply with copyright (it was already an excerpt to start with). When you get a chance:

Instructor: ... One evidence of this is the fact that early man lived in caves. [no one cites this as evidence of evolution]
Student: But prof, ...houses.
Instructor: Another evidence is the fact that man is no longer evolving. This supports our theory that he stopped evolving about 100,000 years ago. [Wrong. Evolution says man is still evolving]
Student: But prof, ...he ever did earlier?
Instructor: There are ...ape-like ancestor.
Student: But prof, our DNA is totally different than an ape's.[No, it's 97% the same] The number ... much larger.
Instructor: Our brain capacity... increased in size.
Student: But prof, what about the Neanderthals? They are supposed to be the ones we most recently evolved from—and they had larger braincases than we have![evolution is a "random walK". It has no direction and merely adapts to what is needed now. No evolutions claims ANY of our features evolved directly.]
Instructor: ... But we know they must have looked like apes [no they looked a lot like us], because they only used primitive tools and weapons.
Student: But prof, people have been found in places such as New Guinea, where they use stone implements—yet they are fully human.[no evolutionist claims that tool use isn't learned] ...Instructor: We also know that ancient people looked like apes because they slouched as they walked. They also had lots of hair on their bodies. All this can be seen in modern paintings of early man.[Noone cites the paintings as evidence, it's the other way around the paintings are based on the evidence]
Student: But prof, artists cannot tell us what ancient man looked like.[no, but paleontlogists can] Bone fragments cannot reveal how much hair was on the body. In addition, we know that our backbones are designed for upright walking. The spines of the apes cause them to hump over and "knuckle walk."
Instructor: Er, uh; back to the Neanderthals. They were a primitive people, because they show evidence of it in their bones.
Student: But prof, even Darwin's defender, Thomas Huxley, said the Neanderthals were humans[Yeah, they are. Everything in the genus Homo is human. But there are different species in the genus Homo] and did not prove evolution[But we have DNA samples today. Huxley would change his mind, assuming this attribution is true. Though it is still debatable whether they are a separate species or a subspecies]. Rudolph Virchow, a leading German anatomist, said their bones were slightly deformed from rickets and arthritis.[and he's been refuted] As for the heavy brow ridges, there are peoples living today who have them.[and that would be why I said earlier they looked a lot like us] What about that Neanderthal found in a medieval suit of chain armor, not fully rusted? [Huh????]
Instructor: Well, we also have the Cro-Magnons. These may be the missing link.[No evolutionist says this. Cro-Magnon is the earliest example of our species. And no evolutionists refers to the missing link anymore. Lots of links have been found since that phrase was invented over a century ago]
Student: But prof, why is it that, each time, only one specimen is found? Why are only little pieces of bone found for each specimen—never a complete skeleton? Careful anatomists declare that, using a few pieces, one can attempt to prove almost anything. Why is it those bones never decayed, though they are supposed to be over a million years old? Such bones are said to have been found in England, Indonesia, and China. Yet all other bones there rot away in a few years. Actually, if bones could last millions of years—then the world would be covered with bones! But that does not happen, because bones rot away. [LOL. Not all bones are going to last the same amount of time. Depends on what they are buried in]
Instructor: We know that these finds must be so, since they were always found by men of the highest integrity, whose word we should accept.[No, the bones are examined by multiple people.] They point to those bones, and declare them to be millions of years old [No, the date them using a variety of mechanisms]
Student: But prof, repeatedly finds of old bones have turned out to be fakes: Java Man, Piltdown Man, Rhodesian Man, Taung African Man, Nebraska Man, Peking Man, and on and on. For example, Nebraska Man, which was the great discovery hailed at the 1925 Scopes trial in Dayton, Tennessee—turned out, a year later, to be nothing more than a pig's tooth. [Many of these weren't even accepted by scientists in the first place and were exposed by scientists. Care to talk about Christian relics?]
Instructor: We could also discuss Piltdown Man, but we had best avoid that topic. Let us now turn our attention to the drawings of ancient man. They show evolution at work. [No one claims this!]
Student: But prof, lots of people today do not draw any better! On the other hand, have you ever found an ape who could draw anything even slightly as well?
Instructor: Another fact, showing the great antiquity of these bones, is that some of them were found several feet under the ground. It must have taken millions of years of erosion and plant decay to bury them there. [This is a complete misrepresentation of how dating is done]
Student: But prof, perhaps other people buried the human bones. As for the ape bones, they have totally different DNA.[No they don't] Such radical changes in DNA just never occur.
Instructor: Just by looking at those bones[wrong again], experts estimate their age at millions of years old.
Student: But prof, why do those experts refuse to let the bones be examined by mass spectrometer technique?[They do] Whenever that has been done, the bones have been shown to be 5,000 years or less in age. [I'd like to see some proof of this]
Instructor: Student, you suggest irrelevant details meant to confuse the ignorant. I have seen some of those bones for myself, and I believe the words of the experts. As for complete skeletons of ancient people, they are just never found.
Student: But prof, Guadeloupe Woman was found in 1812 on a Caribbean island, and is now in the British Museum. It is a fully complete human skeleton, except for the head and feet—and was found in very old, hardened limestone, more than a mile in length! Geologists place its age at 28 million years, yet the skeleton was fully human.[Evidence please?]
Instructor: That is just one example.
Student: More examples could be cited. There is the Calaveras skull, belonging to a modern-type man, yet fully mineralized in 2 million-year-old Pliocene stratum. Dozens of stone implements were found by it. Other examples would be the Castinedolo Skull in Italy, the Moab Skeletons in eastern Utah, and the human footprints in—
Instructor: That is foolishness! I have heard about all those so- called human footprints! [Evidence of any of these please?]
Student: But prof, not only have many oversize footprints been found in various parts of the world, sometimes with dinosaur tracks—but leading paleontologists agree that many of them are genuine. One example would be the Laetoli tracks, which extend 90 feet, and were found by none other than Mary Leakey, in eastern Africa, in 1976-1978.[Never heard of Laeotli including dinosaurs! Evidence please?]
Instructor: The very idea that large human footprints were found adjacent to dinosaur tracks—just does not fit evolutionary theory.
Student: But prof, perhaps the theory is wrong. Large human footprints have been found even on top of dinosaur tracks! [Evidence please?]
Instructor: If that were true, that would mean that humans were alive when the dinosaurs lived!
Student: That would not be difficult, if dinosaurs only went extinct within the past few thousand years. Keep in mind the Antelope Springs tracks. In 1968, William Meister found sandaled human footprints with trilobites! That find would mean humans were alive as far back as life extends—in the Cambrian strata. That is the oldest fossil-bearing strata on the planet. So even the Cambrian is not very old.
Instructor: Evolutionary theory teaches that slow, gradual changes occurred over millions of years, and only produced the most necessary changes.
Student: But prof, what about the vast intelligence of man? Alfred Russel Wallace, Darwin's close friend, declared that human intelligence was too great to have evolved! Then there are the languages of man. They are extremely complicated; yet, as far back as we go, they only become more complicated! [Huh? How do you figure that?]
Instructor: Paleontologists tell us that man originated in Africa.
Student: But prof, research of all kinds reveals that the first men were in the Near East. This is shown by agriculture, mining, tool making, domesticated animals. As far back as we go, man was as intelligent as he is today. [Uh no. Go back 2.5 million years]
 
You hang in there Jesus_Freak.

Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith.

We need believing people.

.


Tell that to all the children raped by priests
 
Surely only evolutionary dead-enders do not evolve by reading this stuff.
 
Wot does that say about those who've put the mental back into fundamentalism?
 
Having just read the first 9 chapters of Genesis I can safely say that no where in it does it say he is taller than anyone else. Maybe everyone was taller back then but the Bible doesn't say so and there is no archeological evidence to support it.

You missed chapter 10, verse 9:

"And lo, the children of Isreal cried out: 'Did I mention that Noah was 12 feet tall?'"
 
Genesis 4:13 And Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is greater than I can bear!
Genesis 4:14 Surely You have driven me out this day from the face of the ground; I shall be hidden from Your face; I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth, and it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me.”
Genesis 4:15 And the LORD said to him, “Therefore,[b] whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the LORD set a mark on Cain, lest anyone finding him should kill him.
Genesis 4:16 Then Cain went out from the presence of the LORD and dwelt in the land of Nod on the east of Eden.
Genesis 4:17 And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son—Enoch.

Who would kill him? There are only 3 people in the whole world! I must have also missed out on the origin of Cain's wife.
 
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Instructor: Our brain capacity is larger because it has evolved. Gradually, over hundreds of thousands of years, our brains have increased in size.
Student: But prof, what about the Neanderthals? They are supposed to be the ones we most recently evolved from—and they had larger braincases than we have!
We didnt evolve from neanderthals we derived from a common ancestor. They didnt quite have our intelligence and their vocal chords were incapable of producing modern speech. In fact they were most likely forced into extinction by being outcompeted by the more cunning homo sapiens that migrated to europe, though this is (as with most extinction hypothesis) admittedly speculation.
Instructor: Well, uh. That is a little mystery we're still working on. But we know they must have looked like apes, because they only used primitive tools and weapons.
Neanderthals most likely looked very much like humans only bigger and with a protruding browridge.
Student: But prof, people have been found in places such as New Guinea, where they use stone implements—yet they are fully human. The children have been sent to American universities, and, after graduation, have proven to be capable workers.
I don't know what this is meant to prove. It is well established in archaology and paleontology that humans and human ancestors used stone tools in the past. Modern humans arent less modern because they use primitive tools.
Instructor: We also know that ancient people looked like apes because they slouched as they walked. They also had lots of hair on their bodies. All this can be seen in modern paintings of early man.
Student: But prof, artists cannot tell us what ancient man looked like. Bone fragments cannot reveal how much hair was on the body. In addition, we know that our backbones are designed for upright walking. The spines of the apes cause them to hump over and "knuckle walk."
The modern human walk developed over millions of years. This is based on hip and spinal evidence found in human ancestors. All artistic renderings of extinct animals must be taken with a degree of salt, the renderings of which this refers is no exception. While it is true that bones hold no evidence for the presence of body hair, it is true that as human ancestors began to walk they would have exposed themselves to the sun more and this would have lead to a reduction in hair (to encourage sweating) and a darkening of the skin (as a kind of natural sunscreen).
Instructor: Er, uh; back to the Neanderthals. They were a primitive people, because they show evidence of it in their bones.
Student: But prof, even Darwin's defender, Thomas Huxley, said the Neanderthals were humans and did not prove evolution. Rudolph Virchow, a leading German anatomist, said their bones were slightly deformed from rickets and arthritis. As for the heavy brow ridges, there are peoples living today who have them. What about that Neanderthal found in a medieval suit of chain armor, not fully rusted?
Thank you for citing 150 year old expertise. Since that time DNA was extracted from the bones of neanderthals revealing them to be a separate species but closely related nonetheless. BTW he said that they weren't evidence of evolution before the discovery of all of the remainder of the nearly two dozen species that we know of that occupy our family tree since our common ancestory with chimps.
Instructor: Well, we also have the Cro-Magnons. These may be the missing link.
Student: But prof, the Cro-Magnons, on the average, were over six feet tall with a cranial capacity somewhat larger than ours! They were normal people, and provide no evidence of transition from ape to man.
Cro-Magnons belonged to our species. This is what modern science claimes.
Instructor: Fortunately, we have amassed a great number of ancient bones which point to our animal origins.
Student: But prof, why is it that, each time, only one specimen is found? Why are only little pieces of bone found for each specimen—never a complete skeleton? Careful anatomists declare that, using a few pieces, one can attempt to prove almost anything. Why is it those bones never decayed, though they are supposed to be over a million years old? Such bones are said to have been found in England, Indonesia, and China. Yet all other bones there rot away in a few years. Actually, if bones could last millions of years—then the world would be covered with bones! But that does not happen, because bones rot away.
Are they kidding? Specimens of homo erectus have been found all over the world. Any anatomist who claims that anything can be claimed with fossils is not well versed in paleontology. The bones arent bones they are fossils, hence the term fossil. in order to qualify as a fossil it must go under a process known as fossilization in which all of the bone is replaced with minerals after millions of years of pressure. If you go to a local museum and compare mastodon bones with dinosaur bones you can see this difference for yourself. The world isnt covered in bones because of nature is very good at cleaning up after itself. Most prey are eaten whole and those parts that arent are usually taken care of by some scavenger or detritivore (eater of dead stuff).
Instructor: We know that these finds must be so, since they were always found by men of the highest integrity, whose word we should accept. They point to those bones, and declare them to be millions of years old.
Student: But prof, repeatedly finds of old bones have turned out to be fakes: Java Man, Piltdown Man, Rhodesian Man, Taung African Man, Nebraska Man, Peking Man, and on and on. For example, Nebraska Man, which was the great discovery hailed at the 1925 Scopes trial in Dayton, Tennessee—turned out, a year later, to be nothing more than a pig's tooth.
Always be cautious of the argument from authority, analyze the claim not the person. We are now at the point with our knowledge of the fossil transition from ancient apes to modern humans that it would be nearly impossible for a fake to last very long. It certainly couldnt be an orangutan jaw thrown onto a human skull.
Instructor: We have found so many bones of mankind's half-ape / half-man ancestors, that we call them "hominoid bones."
Student: But prof, only enough bones have been found to fill the top of an office table! According to a Time-Life book, it all amounts to about 1,400 bits and pieces of bones. Not one complete skeleton of one individual exists. In addition, on closer examination, these so-called "half-ape / half-man ancestors" turn out to be nothing more than immature ape skulls, ape bones doctored up with knives and chisels, mismatched human skulls and ape jaws, human child skulls matched up with ape jaws, a pig's tooth, a dolphin's rib, and a donkey's skull!
Complete skeletons are rare in paleontology, paleontologists are usually restricted to pieces. There are many species that are known only from teeth this is especially true of extinct marsupials. The vast majority of paleontological finds are genuine. The fakes are discovered not by creationists but by scientists. These scientists continue to accept basic principles such as evolution despite the activites of @$$#0!3 hoaxers, because evolution does not depend on any single find to be genuine.
Instructor: We could also discuss Piltdown Man, but we had best avoid that topic. Let us now turn our attention to the drawings of ancient man. They show evolution at work.
Student: But prof, lots of people today do not draw any better! On the other hand, have you ever found an ape who could draw anything even slightly as well?
Drawings do show that creativity had evolved by the time that drawing had taken place. The remarkable thing about drawings is that anything physically demonstrating that level of abstract thought is virtually nonexistant before the earliest examples of human art.
Instructor: Another fact, showing the great antiquity of these bones, is that some of them were found several feet under the ground. It must have taken millions of years of erosion and plant decay to bury them there.
Student: But prof, perhaps other people buried the human bones. As for the ape bones, they have totally different DNA. Such radical changes in DNA just never occur.
If it were a burial there would be telltale signs of disturbance to the soil. Radical changes in DNA can occur over 5 million years of separation.
Instructor: Just by looking at those bones, experts estimate their age at millions of years old.
Student: But prof, why do those experts refuse to let the bones be examined by mass spectrometer technique? Whenever that has been done, the bones have been shown to be 5,000 years or less in age.
Fossils cannot be aged by sight alone. They can be aged by the strata they are found in and through radiometric dating. The fossils that are supposed to be millions of years old according to the strata are confirmed as such by the radiometric dating.
Instructor: Student, you suggest irrelevant details meant to confuse the ignorant. I have seen some of those bones for myself, and I believe the words of the experts. As for complete skeletons of ancient people, they are just never found.
Student: But prof, Guadeloupe Woman was found in 1812 on a Caribbean island, and is now in the British Museum. It is a fully complete human skeleton, except for the head and feet—and was found in very old, hardened limestone, more than a mile in length! Geologists place its age at 28 million years, yet the skeleton was fully human.
It's great that they completely fail to cite their source for this. I am curious as to wtf this is. I googled it and could find no non-creationist source.
Instructor: That is just one example.
Student: More examples could be cited. There is the Calaveras skull, belonging to a modern-type man, yet fully mineralized in 2 million-year-old Pliocene stratum. Dozens of stone implements were found by it. Other examples would be the Castinedolo Skull in Italy, the Moab Skeletons in eastern Utah, and the human footprints in—
Calaveras skull debunked-http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mom/calaveras.html.
Castinedolo and others debunked-http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC112.html.
Moab Debunked-http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC110.html.
NEXT!
Instructor: That is foolishness! I have heard about all those so- called human footprints!
Student: But prof, not only have many oversize footprints been found in various parts of the world, sometimes with dinosaur tracks—but leading paleontologists agree that many of them are genuine. One example would be the Laetoli tracks, which extend 90 feet, and were found by none other than Mary Leakey, in eastern Africa, in 1976-1978.
Examples of human tracks in dinosaur ones are cases of mistaken identity (looks like a human track in'ere, donnit buhbuh?).
Instructor: The very idea that large human footprints were found adjacent to dinosaur tracks—just does not fit evolutionary theory.
Student: But prof, perhaps the theory is wrong. Large human footprints have been found even on top of dinosaur tracks!
Instructor: If that were true, that would mean that humans were alive when the dinosaurs lived!
Student: That would not be difficult, if dinosaurs only went extinct within the past few thousand years. Keep in mind the Antelope Springs tracks. In 1968, William Meister found sandaled human footprints with trilobites! That find would mean humans were alive as far back as life extends—in the Cambrian strata. That is the oldest fossil-bearing strata on the planet. So even the Cambrian is not very old.
I ask again! Are they kidding? There arent enough resources or room or niches on the planet for all of the known species dinosaurs to have lived at the same time much less them and all the rest of the fossil record, and that's just the known fossil record. That's ecology 101 right there.
Instructor: Evolutionary theory teaches that slow, gradual changes occurred over millions of years, and only produced the most necessary changes.
Student: But prof, what about the vast intelligence of man? Alfred Russel Wallace, Darwin's close friend, declared that human intelligence was too great to have evolved! Then there are the languages of man. They are extremely complicated; yet, as far back as we go, they only become more complicated!
Since when is complexity unevolvable? Once humans developed the ability to speak, the languages evolved over time to fit situations and customs of locals. Modern languages can be traced to each other. English is largely of germanic origin and french, spanish, and italian are of latin origin.
Instructor: Paleontologists tell us that man originated in Africa.
Student: But prof, research of all kinds reveals that the first men were in the Near East. This is shown by agriculture, mining, tool making, domesticated animals. As far back as we go, man was as intelligent as he is today.
Human origins in africa is a paleontological, archaeological, and anthropological fact. All humans can genetically be traced to a single population living 70,000 years ago. The earliest human fossils are found in africa and no modern human fossils are found outside of africa before the genetic clock of 70kya.
I hope i have cleared up any confusion wrought by this piece of $#!+ article.
 
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OK my position is that the Bible is litteral and true, and that evolution should not be taught in public schools as fact and backed up with lies. I am willing to discuss this with anyone who has intelligent questions and I do not call people names and expect the same out of others, that gets us no where. I think it is possible to discuss without arguing and realize that I will probably change no minds but just like to have both sides represented fairly. Thanks.

I was just about to say something, but I realized there's no point. To think the Bible is literally true, means you've already discounted science as a means of understanding the world. Science is how we know the Bible is not literal. Hence, no point in further discussion.
 
Well, I was just going to let y'all ramble on, but I guess I will explain the idea that Noah was a giant. There are two interlacing ideas that I know of. One is that Adam and Eve were created perfect and that our absurd fish-spines and inefficient carbon dioxide exhaust and awkward juxtaposition of eliminatory and reproductive organs all devolved as a result of sin. They would have lived forever and were tall and beautiful--but not twelve feet so far I have heard.

The other is the Nephilim and their descendants the Anakites. The Nephilim were evil angels that went for human babes and spawned a race of giants. Some fundies believe that all of the human race except Noah and his family were part Nephilim and therefore okay for God to drown.

So maybe Noah bought his measuring sticks from a giant carpenter. Cubits have varied in size all over the place. It doesn't really matter. Even the largest ark could never hold all the species on earth, and even the smallest ark would be too large for six people to tend.
 
Nothing is gained by pointing out the scientific impossibilities associated with Noah's flood. Once one starts with the premise that God spoke the world into existence, then making water from nothing, making it disappear into nothingness later on, making the rain fall so that whales and porpoises can breathe, teleporting koala bears from Mt. Ararat to Australia, and balancing the salt levels so that the freshwater and saltwater fish can swim next to each other is child's play.

As some other posters pointed out, we would best be served by focusing on evolution.

. . . . . .

That being said, Jesus Freak, it is important for you to know that there are some Christians that believe it is acceptable to lie to people in order to lead people to Christ. Some of these liars post web pages devoted to debunking evolution. There is a great deal of evidence that evolution occurs. There is also an immense amount of evidence showing that the world's age is measured in the billions of years. Teaching anything to the contrary in public schools is damnable nonsense.
 
Alot of assumptions here like the earth was like it is now before the flood...I think the earth was mostly flat and all the water softend the earth and caused the shifting of the plates...Im not sure of the exact number but I think if the earth was flat now there is enough water to cover it 12,000 feet deep, so the water is still here. Oh and also it clearly says that the water not only came from above but below the earths surface as well, so no crushing accured...It's like God knew what he was doing or something huh?

Hilarious! When I told you to "pull my other leg" I was joking.

I think the earth was mostly flat and all the water softend the earth and caused the shifting of the plates. Got any evidence of this? What do you think the effects would be?

You've now proposed that the depths of the seas and the mountains of the Earth all formed in a few what - days? months? years? And have the continental plates rushing around at the speed of a Japanese Bullet Train. :boggled:
 
Ok, here is an easy way to prove that the bible is not literally correct.


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

Jesus freak, there it is for you. it is a collection of contradictory bible verses.

Some of them are rather impossible to explain away.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/abes_sons.html
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/300or800.html


still no response to this. it is direct evidence that the bible can not be true literally. You can read the verses in your own bible to see that the website is factual.

If you click on the 'science and history' section you can see that the bible says that bats are birds :boggled: and other such nonsense. the contradictions section should be enough proof that there is no way the bible can be literally true.
 
Nebraska Man, which was the great discovery hailed at the 1925 Scopes trial in Dayton, Tennessee—turned out, a year later, to be nothing more than a pig's tooth.

No no no no no. Do not ever get your arguments on this area of discussion from Kent Hovind. He's an idiot criminal, and this citation, which is incorrect, smacks of his lunacy.
 
Originally Posted by nails3jesus0
Ok, here is an easy way to prove that the bible is not literally correct.


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

Jesus freak, there it is for you. it is a collection of contradictory bible verses.

Some of them are rather impossible to explain away.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/abes_sons.html
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/300or800.html


still no response to this. it is direct evidence that the bible can not be true literally. You can read the verses in your own bible to see that the website is factual.

If you click on the 'science and history' section you can see that the bible says that bats are birds :boggled: and other such nonsense. the contradictions section should be enough proof that there is no way the bible can be literally true.
If you want to start another thread on supposed Bible inaccuracies I will be more than happy to discuss it there with you but I am trying my best to keep this on evolution.
 

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