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No to Borders, yes to...

phyz

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phyz
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
965
At TAM5, Hitchens mentioned the corporate cowardice of Borders (in regards to the Danish cartoons issue) and suggested there are other merchants to do business with. It was essentially a call to boycott Borders.

But what if you wind up doing business with merchants who were equally weak-willed on the cartoons issue?

So my question is this: who were the courageous book merchants who stood strong and sold publications replete the images of Mohammed? Any national, brick-and-mortar merchants?
 
I love it when people call for a boycott. It sounds inflammatory as hell, calls for absolutely no action on anyone's part (especially on the part of the person calling the boycott), is completely ineffective, and yet it raises a great cheer from the Faithful.

The last nationwide boycott I recall was in the '80s, when the Born Agains tried to boycott every non-born-again merchant in the country. Guess how long it lasted?
 
Beady said:
I love it when people call for a boycott. It sounds inflammatory as hell, calls for absolutely no action on anyone's part (especially on the part of the person calling the boycott), is completely ineffective, and yet it raises a great cheer from the Faithful.
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I thought the 1764 boycott seemed pretty effective.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution

See "Milestones" here for a few others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott

That being said, boycotts are largely ineffectual with the exception that they may help the boycotter feel better about themselves.
 
I don't mind the idea of boycotts, but they do seem (lately at least) to be either ineffectual or counter-productive.

I even have problems with individual boycotts. I go to our local Borders a lot (it was Waldenbooks until recently) but a year or so ago I threatened to stop buying books there because of the prominently displayed Kevin Trudeau books (in the conversation with the manager and in my emails to corporate I also mentioned the Sylvia Browne books). The manager was sympathetic.

But I had no real alternatives for book-buying who did not sell the same stuff. Sorry to say that not every book I want is sold by Prometheus or the JREF.
 
I knew there would be a likelyhood of people picking up on that single term and fussing and fighting over it. The comment I'm still anticipating is the one that says Hitchens wasn't calling for a *** of Borders at all. Surely someone will step up.

In the meantime, I maintain my hope of someone completing the statement that is the title of the thread with the name of an appropriate merchant.

No to Borders, yes to...
 
phyz said:
I knew there would be a likelyhood of people picking up on that single term and fussing and fighting over it. The comment I'm still anticipating is the one that says Hitchens wasn't calling for a *** of Borders at all. Surely someone will step up.

In the meantime, I maintain my hope of someone completing the statement that is the title of the thread with the name of an appropriate merchant.

No to Borders, yes to...
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I wasn't at TAM so I don't know what--if anything--Hitchens was calling for, but I think my last post indicated fairly clearly that there probably is no other bookstore to say "yes" to, at least not consistently.
 
Garrette said:
I wasn't at TAM so I don't know what--if anything--Hitchens was calling for, but I think my last post indicated fairly clearly that there probably is no other bookstore to say "yes" to, at least not consistently.
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Amazon?
 
Gulliamo said:
Amazon?
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If I understand correctly, the question isn't "What bookstores besides Borders exist?"

The question is (my paraphrase of the OP) "What bookstores exist that did not cave like Borders did vis-a-vis the Danish cartoons of Mohammed so that I may take my business there?"

I don't know if Amazon "caved" or not; if not, I guess you're right and the OP is answered.
 
It goes several ways. I buy a variety of books - some of which I don't agree with the politics or viewpoints, but which I want to read to see what others are thinking and writing. There's an independent bookstore in downtown Colorado Springs called (I think) "Chinook" which prided itself on carrying books that were out of the ordinary, or off beat, or which the 'corporate' bookstores were 'afraid' to carry. (This being Colorado, of course there a lot of books aimed at what I affectionately call the granola-heads.) They would not carry any books that disagreed with the owner's very liberal political views. His right, of course, but I found it rather funny because it contrasted so much with the 'rebel freethinker' image he wanted his store to have.

The nice thing about our capitalistic society is that we nearly always have a choice.
 
I'm not suggesting that privately owned bookstores (or bookstore chains) don't have the right to sell or not sell what they choose. I am suggesting that I have the right to give them my business or not based on whatever arbitrary, capricious, illogical, irrational, inconsistent, kooky criteria I like.

I don't have a definite line or even a consistent one, but whatever line I do have does not preclude selling contrary opinions. Were I to draw a line, it would involve patently fraudulent and dangerous claims, like Trudeau's book.
 
Garrette said:
I'm not suggesting that privately owned bookstores (or bookstore chains) don't have the right to sell or not sell what they choose. I am suggesting that I have the right to give them my business or not based on whatever arbitrary, capricious, illogical, irrational, inconsistent, kooky criteria I like.

I don't have a definite line or even a consistent one, but whatever line I do have does not preclude selling contrary opinions. Were I to draw a line, it would involve patently fraudulent and dangerous claims, like Trudeau's book.
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I agree with you - I think my post may have indicated differently. I will defend anyone's right to write and publish whatever tripe they want, but I hate like hell that people will make it profitable for a bookstore to carry.
 
phyz said:
I knew there would be a likelyhood of people picking up on that single term and fussing and fighting over it. The comment I'm still anticipating is the one that says Hitchens wasn't calling for a *** of Borders at all. Surely someone will step up.

In the meantime, I maintain my hope of someone completing the statement that is the title of the thread with the name of an appropriate merchant.

No to Borders, yes to...
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I really did not think that Hitchens was calling for "boycott" of Borders, but he certainly said that he would not do signings/readings of his new book (God is Not Great: How Religion Spoils Everything--Due out May 30, 2007) at Borders. This is hardly anything as grandiose as a "boycott," at least in my book.

That being said, anyone who buys a book in a bookstore is paying way too much money. You can almost always do much better on Amazon or my favorite, Alibris.
 
Geek Goddess said:
There's an independent bookstore in downtown Colorado Springs called (I think) "Chinook" which prided itself on carrying books that were out of the ordinary, or off beat, or which the 'corporate' bookstores were 'afraid' to carry. (This being Colorado, of course there a lot of books aimed at what I affectionately call the granola-heads.)
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GG, Colorado Springs is home to The Air Force Academy and James Dobson's Focus on the Family! It's God and Country country. It's a long, long way from Boulder. Only someone from Texas would consider CS a center for granola-heads. Oh, wait! ;)
 
phyz said:
GG, Colorado Springs is home to The Air Force Academy and James Dobson's Focus on the Family! It's God and Country country. It's a long, long way from Boulder. Only someone from Texas would consider CS a center for granola-heads. Oh, wait! ;)
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Yes, CS is a hotbed of conservatism compared to the rest of Colorado.

I will say no one from FOTF ever knocked on my door or handed me leaflets. I did, however, get leaflets from militant vegans (who complained about my fur collar); visits from Moonies; run out of Garden of the Gods by a large gathering of Wiccans or Druids or some other woo group that were going to light candles and dance naked around the rocks. CS is not a 'center' for granola-heads (I've been to Boulder), but it has a share. I worked with many of them.
 
Geek Goddess said:
CS is not a 'center' for granola-heads (I've been to Boulder), but it has a share. I worked with many of them.
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So... what I'm hearing you say is that you're planning to move to Berkeley as soon as you can work out the logistics? One of the parking meter holidays listed above the coin slot there is "Indigenous Peoples' Day." For the benefit of out-of-towners, they include, parenthetically, "(Columbus Day)."

You'd love it there, GG! ;)
 
phyz said:
So... what I'm hearing you say is that you're planning to move to Berkeley as soon as you can work out the logistics? One of the parking meter holidays listed above the coin slot there is "Indigenous Peoples' Day." For the benefit of out-of-towners, they include, parenthetically, "(Columbus Day)."

You'd love it there, GG! ;)
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Yea, that's me. I am SO there.
 
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