What follows is another fatuous debate with Jon Gold, the sort we've been subjected to on Smasher's blog far too often. Reading these exchanges is not likely to add to your fund of knowledge, and I don't really encourage going spelunking in the minds of fantasists, but--the inevitable "but." For those of you over-endowed with morbid curiosity, there are a few items of interest. First, what to make of Gold's bizarre tic of attaching Bush's quote to every one of his posts? Is there supposed to be a smoking gun buried here somewhere? Isn't Bush, uh, right in saying that we have an opportunity!?
And what about Gold's bizarre, self-ballyhooed effort to raise money for first responders? Who does he imagine would be taken in by such transparent disingenuousness?
There's more. If you want to hear an anonymous poster complain about Jenny's racism, go to:
http://www.911blogger.com/node/5532?page=3
» reply | -8 points
Clarification
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
Sorry for the confusion: I am anti-EVERYTHING the fantasy movement stands for.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 10:57am.
» reply | 3 points
It's called...
The 9/11 Truth Movement. I'm sorry that someone with your limited intelligence can't remember that.
"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 11:00am.
» edit | reply | -8 points
Name Change
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
Nah, too Orwellian. A movement consisting entirely of fantasists peddling blatant lies has nothing to do with truth.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007
» reply | -10 points
Real Questions
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
Jon, bear in mind that you don't believe a word of the tinfoil-hat idiocy. You are a hardcore leftist who hopes to harness the energies of the woowoos to further your political agenda. You don't have a single serious question about the jihadist attacks of 9/11/01 that hasn't been answered many times. I have certainly never heard you ask anything that suggests genuine interest in the subject.
You never resolved the Osama conundrum for me. Is he real? If he is, why doesn't he complain about the words his identical double puts in his mouth? If he doesn't exist, why didn't the Bush crime family, faced with a disastrous election defeat last fall, simply announce that they had finally managed to kill him? It was, we must agree, positively their last chance to play the Osama card. Maybe the Impossibly Vast Conspiracy did everything to benefit Hillary. Would you care to try running with that?
I won't ask you again to explain why the evildoers forgot to include any Iraqis or Afghanis among their imaginary terrorists. When conspiracy liars try to tackle that little poser the results are painful to watch.
C'mon, this is easy stuff, no?
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 10:51am.
» reply | 7 points
Thanks...
No real logic is being used on your part. It's obvious to anyone that reads this blog. It's also obvious that you are agenda driven. It's also obvious that because of your obvious stupidity, that agenda will never be fulfilled.
"Real Questions..." You are funny Ronny. In a pitiful, moronic, scared kinda way.
"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 10:58am.
No Promises
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
Jon, I appreciate your generosity in allowing me to probe the people here on their beliefs. It is rather pointless for you to engage me in another round of our ritual sparring. We can both predict the outcome.
There wasn't one chance in a million that you would go near my questions. I know--you know--the rest of your audience won't notice a thing. Be thankful that your supporters are obtuse.
If I can sell my producer on more 9/11 conspiracy shows, maybe I can work you in.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 11:18am.
» reply | 5 points
Wait Ronny...
I believe I asked, "Why is that acceptable to you?"
You ignored my question. Why should I answer yours?
"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 11:21am.
» reply | 5 points
I'll ask again...
Why is it acceptable to you that the 9/11 Commission only answered 30% of the well researched questions put forward by the 9/11 Family Steering Committee?
As far as me appearing on your show, I have no desire. However, Michael Wolsey thinks he's ready to have a debate on his show. Hopefully I'll see you there.
"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 11:24am.
» reply | -2 points
When?
Didn't I agree to debate on Wolsey's show several months ago? What happened?
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 11:47am.
» reply | 1 point
He'll let you know.
"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 11:49am.
Serious Intent
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
My questions were real questions designed to reveal the hopeless internal contradictions of the fantasist (notice thst I did not say "your") position. Your question is rhetorical. If the 9/11 Commission deliberately ignored important questions that merited careful consideration, that state of affairs is acceptable to no person of good will. The onus is on you to present the questions that were ignored and explain why they are important. The Commission never dreamed that it could supply answers to every conceivable question. Such expectations are wildly unrealistic. I maintain that you have no serious questions that haven't been answered many times.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 11:39am.
» reply | 5 points
Ok...
I'm glad we agree that it's unacceptable the 9/11 Commission answered only 30% of the well researched questions put forward by the 9/11 Family Steering Committee.
Here are the well researched questions that were ignored.
They are "important" solely for the reason they were submitted by the 9/11 Family Steering Committee. There are several other reasons why answering well researched questions submitted by those most affected by the tragedy is "important". Closure being one of them.
So, now that we know you think it's unacceptable they refused to answer their questions, I have a new question for you.
Why do you lie about, insult, and actively oppose the one group of people fighting to have those well researched questions answered?
"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 11:48am.
Funny is Good; Boring is Not
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
So, after much posturing, you present, predictably, trivial questions that have been answered many, many times. Ah, Jon, when will I learn?
Accept the plaudits of the simpletons and be grateful.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 12:44pm.
You keep saying that...
The questions have been answered, yet, I'm still here fighting for those unanswered questions.
You make no sense.
"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 12:45pm.
» reply | 3 points
You said...
It is rather pointless for you to engage me in another round of our ritual sparring. We can both predict the outcome.
You're right. The outcome is that I always make you look like the fool that you are.
You call us "9/11 Deniers." Nothing I have seen has ever called for the phrase, "The Pot Calling The Kettle Black", more than that.
"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 7:18pm.
Revisionist History
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
No, Jon I must remind you that our past history shows something entirely different: You start out by saying something disingenuous, silly, or just flat-out wrong and then I expose you and then you run away. Unfortunately for you, the record of your "triumphs" remains available on Smasher's blog.
I don't call your brain-dead followers "9/11 deniers." I call them "9/11 Fantasists," and when I'm looking for precision, I call them "conspiracy liars."
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Sat, 01/13/2007 - 4:09pm.
You say...
I run away, yet... This site was started in April 2005, and I have been a member since day one. I haven't "run" anywhere. Another lie from Ronny.
What I consider to be "triumphs" are things like getting on the front page of a local newspaper two Sunday's in a row. What I consider to be "triumphs" is collecting $940 so far for first responders. What I consider to be "triumphs" is writing a good article.
Making you look like a fool I consider fun.
"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Sat, 01/13/2007 - 4:27pm.
So You're Willing to Accompany Me?
Quit while you're far behind, Jon.
How did you like my proposal that you accompany me to a firehouse to solicit opinions on the painting you showcased here? When can you make it? My schedule is pretty flexible. How about it, Jon? Give the first responders an opportunity to express their gratitude for offering them chump change in return for slandering them.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Sat, 01/13/2007 - 6:48pm.
»
Absolute Truth & Absolute Accountability
Is what I'm fighting for. Whatever your opinion is of my fight, I know it is the creation of a delusional, warped mind, and it means absolutely nothing to me.
"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 9:42pm.
Transparent Act
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
No, Jon, your act is highly unconvincing. You are fighting for something far different than truth.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 9:39pm.
Reminder
Jon, your agenda has absolutely NOTHING to do with truth. In five years of screaming, the fantasy movement has produced bogus science, distorted quotes, and outright lies--and not a shred of actual evidence.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Sat, 01/13/2007 - 4:22pm.
Try Honesty
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
No, you are being dishonest again. Nobody has ever produced an example of a "lie" I've told and nobody ever will. Your struggle is the struggle of all wrong-headed leftists who bitterly resent the destruction of the anti-capitalist vision. America must be weakened and you will align yourself with people who would instantly kill you and others like you in order to further that goal. The questions you feign interest in have been answered comprehensively. Granted, those answers are inconvenient to your politics, but you can't accept them without dooming your pernicious mission.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 8:25pm.
» reply | 3 points
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Nobody has ever produced an example of a "lie" I've told and nobody ever will.
And then...
The questions you feign interest in have been answered comprehensively.
Too funny Ronny.
"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 9:50pm.
Sorry, Jon, You've Been Caught Again
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
Yes, we understand that you've trapped yourself as usual.
Now, to repeat:
Nobody has ever produced an example of a "lie" I've told and nobody ever will.
The questions you feign interest in have been answered comprehensively.
Irrefutable, Jon.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Sat, 01/13/2007 -
Every word...
Is a lie. You should be banned because your only purpose here is to lie.
Here's a question. Why can't I know what Sibel Edmonds knows?
"We've been offered a unique opportunity and we must not let this moment pass."
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Sat, 01/13/2007 - 4:29pm.
Batting Practice
Why can't you know what the average six-year old knows? Answer: you're not very bright.
We're still waiting for an example of a "lie" I've told. This game is an old one for me, Jon. I chop ignoramuses to pieces; they babble more nonsense; I crush them again; they accuse me of lying. Yawn. Somehow, I never get to see their evidence.
For reasons that defy explanation, you continue to quote Bush making an important point. Yes, we were caught napping by the jihadists and were given, in a painful manner, an opportunity to make up for our past failures. If you get your way, that opportunity will be lost, America will be thwarted and the threat of radical Islam will grow. The opportunity to change the dynamics of the Middle East, to introduce hope and prosperity where there has been only despair, must be opposed by you because it benefits America. That it benefits millions of people living benighted lives is irrelevant to your transparent agenda. People, very simply, are not things you care about.
This free speech business isn't working out very well, is it, Jon? You're much more comfortable with the Stalinist approach. It's time to lower the boom.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Sat, 01/13/2007 - 6:59pm.
And what about Gold's bizarre, self-ballyhooed effort to raise money for first responders? Who does he imagine would be taken in by such transparent disingenuousness?
There's more. If you want to hear an anonymous poster complain about Jenny's racism, go to:
http://www.911blogger.com/node/5532?page=3
» reply | -8 points
Clarification
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
Sorry for the confusion: I am anti-EVERYTHING the fantasy movement stands for.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 10:57am.
» reply | 3 points
It's called...
The 9/11 Truth Movement. I'm sorry that someone with your limited intelligence can't remember that.
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 11:00am.
» edit | reply | -8 points
Name Change
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
Nah, too Orwellian. A movement consisting entirely of fantasists peddling blatant lies has nothing to do with truth.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007
» reply | -10 points
Real Questions
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
Jon, bear in mind that you don't believe a word of the tinfoil-hat idiocy. You are a hardcore leftist who hopes to harness the energies of the woowoos to further your political agenda. You don't have a single serious question about the jihadist attacks of 9/11/01 that hasn't been answered many times. I have certainly never heard you ask anything that suggests genuine interest in the subject.
You never resolved the Osama conundrum for me. Is he real? If he is, why doesn't he complain about the words his identical double puts in his mouth? If he doesn't exist, why didn't the Bush crime family, faced with a disastrous election defeat last fall, simply announce that they had finally managed to kill him? It was, we must agree, positively their last chance to play the Osama card. Maybe the Impossibly Vast Conspiracy did everything to benefit Hillary. Would you care to try running with that?
I won't ask you again to explain why the evildoers forgot to include any Iraqis or Afghanis among their imaginary terrorists. When conspiracy liars try to tackle that little poser the results are painful to watch.
C'mon, this is easy stuff, no?
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 10:51am.
» reply | 7 points
Thanks...
No real logic is being used on your part. It's obvious to anyone that reads this blog. It's also obvious that you are agenda driven. It's also obvious that because of your obvious stupidity, that agenda will never be fulfilled.
"Real Questions..." You are funny Ronny. In a pitiful, moronic, scared kinda way.
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 10:58am.
No Promises
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
Jon, I appreciate your generosity in allowing me to probe the people here on their beliefs. It is rather pointless for you to engage me in another round of our ritual sparring. We can both predict the outcome.
There wasn't one chance in a million that you would go near my questions. I know--you know--the rest of your audience won't notice a thing. Be thankful that your supporters are obtuse.
If I can sell my producer on more 9/11 conspiracy shows, maybe I can work you in.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 11:18am.
» reply | 5 points
Wait Ronny...
I believe I asked, "Why is that acceptable to you?"
You ignored my question. Why should I answer yours?
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 11:21am.
» reply | 5 points
I'll ask again...
Why is it acceptable to you that the 9/11 Commission only answered 30% of the well researched questions put forward by the 9/11 Family Steering Committee?
As far as me appearing on your show, I have no desire. However, Michael Wolsey thinks he's ready to have a debate on his show. Hopefully I'll see you there.
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 11:24am.
» reply | -2 points
When?
Didn't I agree to debate on Wolsey's show several months ago? What happened?
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 11:47am.
» reply | 1 point
He'll let you know.
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 11:49am.
Serious Intent
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
My questions were real questions designed to reveal the hopeless internal contradictions of the fantasist (notice thst I did not say "your") position. Your question is rhetorical. If the 9/11 Commission deliberately ignored important questions that merited careful consideration, that state of affairs is acceptable to no person of good will. The onus is on you to present the questions that were ignored and explain why they are important. The Commission never dreamed that it could supply answers to every conceivable question. Such expectations are wildly unrealistic. I maintain that you have no serious questions that haven't been answered many times.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 11:39am.
» reply | 5 points
Ok...
I'm glad we agree that it's unacceptable the 9/11 Commission answered only 30% of the well researched questions put forward by the 9/11 Family Steering Committee.
Here are the well researched questions that were ignored.
They are "important" solely for the reason they were submitted by the 9/11 Family Steering Committee. There are several other reasons why answering well researched questions submitted by those most affected by the tragedy is "important". Closure being one of them.
So, now that we know you think it's unacceptable they refused to answer their questions, I have a new question for you.
Why do you lie about, insult, and actively oppose the one group of people fighting to have those well researched questions answered?
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 11:48am.
Funny is Good; Boring is Not
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
So, after much posturing, you present, predictably, trivial questions that have been answered many, many times. Ah, Jon, when will I learn?
Accept the plaudits of the simpletons and be grateful.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 12:44pm.
You keep saying that...
The questions have been answered, yet, I'm still here fighting for those unanswered questions.
You make no sense.
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 12:45pm.
» reply | 3 points
You said...
It is rather pointless for you to engage me in another round of our ritual sparring. We can both predict the outcome.
You're right. The outcome is that I always make you look like the fool that you are.
You call us "9/11 Deniers." Nothing I have seen has ever called for the phrase, "The Pot Calling The Kettle Black", more than that.
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 7:18pm.
Revisionist History
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
No, Jon I must remind you that our past history shows something entirely different: You start out by saying something disingenuous, silly, or just flat-out wrong and then I expose you and then you run away. Unfortunately for you, the record of your "triumphs" remains available on Smasher's blog.
I don't call your brain-dead followers "9/11 deniers." I call them "9/11 Fantasists," and when I'm looking for precision, I call them "conspiracy liars."
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Sat, 01/13/2007 - 4:09pm.
You say...
I run away, yet... This site was started in April 2005, and I have been a member since day one. I haven't "run" anywhere. Another lie from Ronny.
What I consider to be "triumphs" are things like getting on the front page of a local newspaper two Sunday's in a row. What I consider to be "triumphs" is collecting $940 so far for first responders. What I consider to be "triumphs" is writing a good article.
Making you look like a fool I consider fun.
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Sat, 01/13/2007 - 4:27pm.
So You're Willing to Accompany Me?
Quit while you're far behind, Jon.
How did you like my proposal that you accompany me to a firehouse to solicit opinions on the painting you showcased here? When can you make it? My schedule is pretty flexible. How about it, Jon? Give the first responders an opportunity to express their gratitude for offering them chump change in return for slandering them.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Sat, 01/13/2007 - 6:48pm.
»
Absolute Truth & Absolute Accountability
Is what I'm fighting for. Whatever your opinion is of my fight, I know it is the creation of a delusional, warped mind, and it means absolutely nothing to me.
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 9:42pm.
Transparent Act
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
No, Jon, your act is highly unconvincing. You are fighting for something far different than truth.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 9:39pm.
Reminder
Jon, your agenda has absolutely NOTHING to do with truth. In five years of screaming, the fantasy movement has produced bogus science, distorted quotes, and outright lies--and not a shred of actual evidence.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Sat, 01/13/2007 - 4:22pm.
Try Honesty
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
No, you are being dishonest again. Nobody has ever produced an example of a "lie" I've told and nobody ever will. Your struggle is the struggle of all wrong-headed leftists who bitterly resent the destruction of the anti-capitalist vision. America must be weakened and you will align yourself with people who would instantly kill you and others like you in order to further that goal. The questions you feign interest in have been answered comprehensively. Granted, those answers are inconvenient to your politics, but you can't accept them without dooming your pernicious mission.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 8:25pm.
» reply | 3 points
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Nobody has ever produced an example of a "lie" I've told and nobody ever will.
And then...
The questions you feign interest in have been answered comprehensively.
Too funny Ronny.
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 01/12/2007 - 9:50pm.
Sorry, Jon, You've Been Caught Again
[below viewing threshold, show/hide comment]
Yes, we understand that you've trapped yourself as usual.
Now, to repeat:
Nobody has ever produced an example of a "lie" I've told and nobody ever will.
The questions you feign interest in have been answered comprehensively.
Irrefutable, Jon.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Sat, 01/13/2007 -
Every word...
Is a lie. You should be banned because your only purpose here is to lie.
Here's a question. Why can't I know what Sibel Edmonds knows?
— George W. Bush - State Of The Union Address - January 29th, 2002
Submitted by Jon Gold on Sat, 01/13/2007 - 4:29pm.
Batting Practice
Why can't you know what the average six-year old knows? Answer: you're not very bright.
We're still waiting for an example of a "lie" I've told. This game is an old one for me, Jon. I chop ignoramuses to pieces; they babble more nonsense; I crush them again; they accuse me of lying. Yawn. Somehow, I never get to see their evidence.
For reasons that defy explanation, you continue to quote Bush making an important point. Yes, we were caught napping by the jihadists and were given, in a painful manner, an opportunity to make up for our past failures. If you get your way, that opportunity will be lost, America will be thwarted and the threat of radical Islam will grow. The opportunity to change the dynamics of the Middle East, to introduce hope and prosperity where there has been only despair, must be opposed by you because it benefits America. That it benefits millions of people living benighted lives is irrelevant to your transparent agenda. People, very simply, are not things you care about.
This free speech business isn't working out very well, is it, Jon? You're much more comfortable with the Stalinist approach. It's time to lower the boom.
Submitted by Ronald Wieck on Sat, 01/13/2007 - 6:59pm.
I hear this name
I didn´t know that he´s the
