US Spectre gunship attacks targets in Somolia

Yup - it was from OEF and I'm certain that it got some folks in trouble because they discuss ROEs.

ETA: That's kind of a "discreet fire" mode. The AC-130 also has a "light 'em up" mode which is a thing to behold.
 
Last edited:
Yup - it was from OEF and I'm certain that it got some folks in trouble because they discuss ROEs.

ETA: That's kind of a "discreet fire" mode. The AC-130 also has a "light 'em up" mode which is a thing to behold.
Best to behold it from a distance, though.

Or, as I frequently have, simply to have the distant sound of it lull you to sleep.
 
Yup - it was from OEF and I'm certain that it got some folks in trouble because they discuss ROEs.

ETA: That's kind of a "discreet fire" mode. The AC-130 also has a "light 'em up" mode which is a thing to behold.

Got any clips of that? ;)
 
Cylinder, can you tell us acronym-challenged folks what ROE stands for?

What I don't understand about gun camera footage is that it always seems to be in black and white. I know this is how infrared is displayed, but there must be other types taken, right? And why is it always at such low resolution? If this is what our gunners see, it's hard to understand how they know exactly what they're shooting at. Maybe they keep it somewhat fuzzy to spare us civilians the gory details?

All told, the footage reminds me of playing Command & Conquer. I'm glad we're the ones with this firepower.
 
Cylinder, can you tell us acronym-challenged folks what ROE stands for?
As Katana noted, Rules of Engagement. That is a fairly rigorous list of conditions that must be met before you pull a trigger, most of which is intended to ensure that you only shoot at and kill legitimate targets, and not some poor sonofagun walking his goat down a path in the mountains.
What I don't understand about gun camera footage is that it always seems to be in black and white. I know this is how infrared is displayed, but there must be other types taken, right? And why is it always at such low resolution?
Some of what you are seeing is a problem in format conversion, but then, gun camera tech/generations don't move as fast as online video cameras due to the Defense Acquisition system. Gun cameras, like all else, are bought under a "minimum bid" process that does not tech refresh within the Moore's Law cycle.
If this is what our gunners see, it's hard to understand how they know exactly what they're shooting at. Maybe they keep it somewhat fuzzy to spare us civilians the gory details?
No, that film is not generally intended for public release. Note my remarks above: the folks who released that film and associated audio broke some rules. Got into trouble. As to what the gunners see, and how they know who is what and who to shoot at, that's an operational detail that you can ask SOCOM about, but I don't feel comfortable discussing.
All told, the footage reminds me of playing Command & Conquer. I'm glad we're the ones with this firepower.
It is no game. There is real shredded flesh and splintered bone at the far end of the muzzle.

DR
 
Last edited:
Any ideas about flight altitude above ground? Could the targets hear the plane?
Good questions. Not my place to say on the first, and one suspects "no" on the second, given the apparent surprise of the attack in the video.

DR
 
You can tell they are orbiting at significant altitude. A C-130 flying on the deck gets your attention. Also, if you notice the little x circling the crosshairs - that's the gunship's position in relation to the target. Remember that the targeting sensor swivels. They're flying tight orbits which suggests greater altitude.
 
It is no game. There is real shredded flesh and splintered bone at the far end of the muzzle.

Yeah, that's what I keep reminding myself about. It's amazing how far technology has come (weapons technology in particular) and I guess it's a mildly morbid fascination I have with the idea that someone's life can be brought to a fiery halt in an instant by someone pulling a trigger miles away. The fact that the means exist for me to see these events halfway around the world compounds that amazement.

At some level I guess it's because of the human need to empathize and put myself in the other guy's shoes. But it's hard for me to wrap my head around all of this because what someone else experiences first hand, it feels to me like I observe them through a microscope which is clouded by my own perceptions and experience.

It's hard for me to imagine being in the situation of the guys pulling the trigger. The closest thing I have to military experience is playing a few rounds of paintball ten years ago. While I can't see myself in a military setting, I do understand why others make the decision to enlist. I guess seeing stuff like this is a way of reassuring myself that we have the means to eliminate those who would do us harm.
 
Wow. I have to admit that that was fascinating, and thanks for providing the link. It was striking to hear the soldiers talking about the "two other guys that [they] saw fly apart," but I suppose that's the reality of war. Does it surprise anyone else that such footage is available for the public to see or is it pretty common and I've just been living a sheltered life?

I'm sure the horror is offset a little by the reality of who those guys on the ground who were flying apart were.
 
I'm sure the horror is offset a little by the reality of who those guys on the ground who were flying apart were.

Did I use the word "horror"? No.

Did I suggest that they shouldn't be doing what they were doing? No.

Can I watch a fellow human being destroy another human being without having some kind of an emotional response? No.

I chose my words deliberately. I was "struck" by what I saw. Yes, I was disturbed, but I didn't say that what they did was wrong.
 
Did I use the word "horror"? No.

Did I suggest that they shouldn't be doing what they were doing? No.

Can I watch a fellow human being destroy another human being without having some kind of an emotional response? No.

I chose my words deliberately. I was "struck" by what I saw. Yes, I was disturbed, but I didn't say that what they did was wrong.

Why so defensive? I was referring to the horror of the guys operating the AC-130. They were actually doing the killing, so they would have more of an emotional response than you, the viewer, would, at least I would imagine. It might be masked by training, and preoccupation with doing their job, but "horror" probably isn't too strong a word for it. And that horror, as I said, would probably be offset by imagining that the scum they are annihilating (I refuse to call Taliban and al-Qaida "human beings") were the ones who were behind 9/11, and all the atrocities in Afghanistan from 1996 to 2001.
 
CNN is reporting that Fazul Abdullah Mohammed, indicted for his participation in the 1998 African embassy bombings, has been killed in a US airstrike in Somalia.



The suspected al Qaeda militant who planned the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in east Africa was killed in an American airstrike in Somalia, an official said Wednesday.

"I have received a report from the American side chronicling the targets and list of damage," Abdirizak Hassan, the Somali president's chief of staff, told The Associated Press.

"One of the items they were claiming was that Fazul Abdullah Mohammed is dead."

Mohammed allegedly planned the attacks on the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania that killed 225 people.

He is also suspected of planning the car bombing of a beach resort in Kenya and the near simultaneous attempt to shoot down an Israeli airliner in 2002. Ten Kenyans and three Israelis were killed in the blast at the hotel, 12 miles north of Mombasa. The missiles missed the airliner.

Mohammed is thought to have been the main target of an American helicopter attack Monday afternoon on Badmadow island off southern Somalia.
 
Last edited:
It appears entirely likely there were three anti-US terrorists in Somalia yesterday. Today, we can be quite sure, there are many more.
 
It appears entirely likely there were three anti-US terrorists in Somalia yesterday. Today, we can be quite sure, there are many more.
No, we cannot. The creation of more terrorists by the killing of actual terrorists is a risk to be considered, but it is not a certainty, and even if deemed to be nearly certain might still be justified by the benefits gained.

Not saying this is so in this instance as I don't know enough about it, but blanket statements like yours add nothing of value to the analysis.
 
Why so defensive? I was referring to the horror of the guys operating the AC-130. They were actually doing the killing, so they would have more of an emotional response than you, the viewer, would, at least I would imagine. It might be masked by training, and preoccupation with doing their job, but "horror" probably isn't too strong a word for it. And that horror, as I said, would probably be offset by imagining that the scum they are annihilating (I refuse to call Taliban and al-Qaida "human beings") were the ones who were behind 9/11, and all the atrocities in Afghanistan from 1996 to 2001.

I'm really sorry, Polaris. I clearly misunderstood what you were trying to say. I'm not sure why I made the leap I did. Thanks for being more rational in your response than I was - damn, I really do try to avoid those emotional leaps, too.

Shame on me. :o

And I think you're probably right in your observations, too.
 

Back
Top Bottom