Common Sense

[babazaroni]

Why no global collapse here:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4847/ntp10ini8.jpg

How the heck is that building standing...what about lateral loads and transferring loads...and traverse loads... this must be one magical building.

Different building design. Did not need to be 110 stories.

 

[Mashuna]

Wowy wow... what does this guy sound like... if not an 8 year old explaining what happened on 9/11. Very scientific... I must say.

BTW... where did the term, "Global Collapse," even originate? Did NIST make up this term? I THINK THEY DID!

Why no global collapse here:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4847/ntp10ini8.jpg

How the heck is that building standing...what about lateral loads and transferring loads...and traverse loads... this must be one magical building.

He's just using common sense! It's obvious that this is what happened, you've just been debunked!

Asking about lateral loads and traverse loads - don't be so left-brained. You need to look at the whole picture. You can't see the wood for the trees.

It's all in the video footage, it started at the top and finished at the end. You can't debunk this, and if you try I'll put you on ignore.

Hey, this arguing like a CTist is easy!

 

[uk_dave]

Why no global collapse here:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4847/ntp10ini8.jpg

How the heck is that building standing...what about lateral loads and transferring loads...and traverse loads... this must be one magical building.

Once again your lack of imagination lets you down.

You see a picture of a severely damaged building and you imagine that all buildings are constructed in this way, using the same materials, and that if they are damaged then the damage must be like that in your picture.

You then use your 'common sense' approach to extrapolate from this image a scenario whereby the WTC towers (which were not a traditional frame construction and were not reinforced concrete) should have a similar appearance.

Your imagination is lacking 28K.

Badly.

 

[Oliver]

BTW... where did the term, "Global Collapse," even originate? Did NIST make up this term? I THINK THEY DID!

I also read it on non-wtc sources about collapses, too.
So i guess it´s a standard term.

Partial Collapse: Your Pic
Global Collapse: Towers

Why no global collapse here:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4847/ntp10ini8.jpg

How the heck is that building standing...what about lateral loads and transferring loads...and traverse loads... this must be one magical building.

Your Pic: 11 Stories
WTC: 110 Stories

 

[ConspiRaider]

You're close to my ignore button... because I hate the obligation of defending myself when someone chooses to distort/misinterpret my words.

The events of 9/11 include more than the collapses... it's the motive, the opportunity, the admitted evidence we have from the Bush administration about facts surrounding 9/11... the documented history of Israel framing Arab Muslims as terrorists... that is the big picture of 9/11. The fact that explosives were used is the big picture... the exact details of how they were used is not.

Of course, your left-brain hates the big picture... you prefer the myopic metaphysical world of speculative details... where you hold complete dominion over all the facts.

No distortion of your words, Doctor 28IQ. Direct quotes from your post.

Try not to use big words such as metaphysical, until you understand exactly what they mean.

No one holds dominion over any facts. Facts simply exist. They are fully discovered, or partially discovered, or not discovered at all - ever.

You really don't know a thing at all about true skepticism, do you? Law enforcement uses our methods, did you know that? If you were in charge of Homicide, you'd pin every single murder in the city on the Mob.

CHIEF 28IQ
A dead guy, huh? It was the Mafia!

NORMAL COP
But Chief, the evidence doesn't lead there at all. Everything we've uncovered points instead to...

CHIEF 28IQ
It was the MAFIA! They're a crime syndicate, yes? They wipe out guys, yes? They do all the crime in this city, yes? We got a wiped out guy in our city, so OF COURSE it's the Mafia! Next case!

It's tough, believe me, to keep politics out of this. But you MUST try. I probably have as much respect for the Bush Administration as you do. Which is exactly why I'd NEVER even hint at accusing them of something this heinous, unless there was no doubt in any reasonable person's mind. That's some of what THEY have done! And here you are, mimicking their methods. Not only do you have to rise above the Bush Administration, you also have to rise above The Twoofers. Neither are interested in honesty. So it's up to you to get there, and we can help. That's why you're here at JREF. We all have to punch down our political leanings when evaluating the discourse of events such as 9/11. Political overtones serve only to distort and obscure.

 

[The Doc]

BTW... where did the term, "Global Collapse," even originate? Did NIST make up this term? I THINK THEY DID!

You will find this interesting,

NNC Limited was sponsored by the Health & Safety Executive (UK) to conduct finite element analysis to simulate the over-pressurisation tests conducted on a 1/4 scale model of a pre-stressed concrete containment vessel (PCCV) by Sandia National Laboratories. The tests and the results indicated three distinct stages of structural response as the vessel approached its failure load. The first stage was essentially an elastic response. The second stage displayed nonlinear behaviour, which started after onset of substantial concrete cracking and involved local yielding or fracture of structural components. The third stage involved extensive concrete cracking and rapid increase in strains leading to global structural collapse.

Not by NIST. Nothing to do with the WTC's.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=e746c0fb18cc3d5c002ccdf3e4dbb6ce

 

[Paul]

what does this guy sound like... if not an 8 year old explaining what happened on 9/11. Very scientific

I sound like someone try to explain to the hard-of-understanding why their insistence on unnecessary reports is silly. The important things to know are how and why the building failed, not after it had started to fall exactly how did it continue to fall?.

 

[28th Kingdom]

Let's take a poll, shall we?

Which is more important to you? You may only pick one:

Report A: The mechanics of the aircraft hitting the Twin Towers, damage after impact, damage due to fire, gradual weakening of the structure, performance of fire suppression and escape systems, and precise cause of the collapse

Report B: A blow-by-blow account of the Twin Towers coming apart, collapsing on itself, and finally crashing to the ground, including why it took about 15 seconds instead of, say, 20 seconds, and spiffy computer animation showing what it would have looked like without all the dust and debris in the way

28^th Kingdom, help me out with this. What, specifically, do you want to know about the WTC collapses that NIST didn't answer? Tell me why you're screaming "Fraud!" at the top of your lungs.

You want my help? Okay.... since we didn't know what caused the collapses... and since planted explosives had to at least be considered as a potential cause... and since NIST didn't even factor explosives into their equations or theory... well, I would say that if you are working with crippled information... than you will produce crippled results.

NIST had crippled information by failing to include explosives as a possible suspect in their investigation... and as such - they came up with some unbelievable theories which don't even being to explain the most perplexing events of the collapses, namely, the speed at which the buildings fell, the exploding walls with nothing touching them on WTC 2, and the miracle failure of the core columns.

The NIST is nothing but a big whitewash. What a Fraud.

 

[Oliver]

What was the purpose? To investigate the collapses, right? Did NIST investigate the collapses? Yes or No? We will weed out the real loons with this one... cus we have NIST's statement that says they didn't focus on the events of the actual collapses...

Now... do you see why they refuse to provide a simulation for the collapses? BECAUSE THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT HAPPENED! Here is where the NIST investigation stops:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-RzwmD8uB8g

NIST's report stops RIGHT WHEN THE COLLAPSE BEGINS! HOW convenient!

Hey! This is a pretty good video, thank you.
It also explains the collapse pretty good - what
is your problem with this explanation?

 

[Skibum]

You want my help? Okay.... since we didn't know what caused the collapses... and since planted explosives had to at least be considered as a potential cause... and since NIST didn't even factor explosives into their equations or theory... well, I would say that if you are working with crippled information... than you will produce crippled results.

NIST had crippled information by failing to include explosives as a possible suspect in their investigation... and as such - they came up with some unbelievable theories which don't even being to explain the most perplexing events of the collapses, namely, the speed at which the buildings fell, the exploding walls with nothing touching them on WTC 2, and the miracle failure of the core columns.

The NIST is nothing but a big whitewash. What a Fraud.

I'm pretty certain they did consider explosives, and upon finding no evidence of their use abandoned that line of investigation. However I don't think they considered alien space beams so I guess you are correct the report is a fraud.

NIST

In summary, NIST found no corroborating evidence for alternative hypotheses suggesting that the WTC towers were brought down by controlled demolition using explosives planted prior to Sept. 11, 2001. NIST also did not find any evidence that missiles were fired at or hit the towers.

 

[The Doc]

You want my help? Okay.... since we didn't know what caused the collapses... and since planted explosives had to at least be considered as a potential cause... and since NIST didn't even factor explosives into their equations or theory... well, I would say that if you are working with crippled information... than you will produce crippled results.

I'll say it again.

The purpose of the NIST report was not to satisfy conspiracy theorists.

If you don't like it - tough luck.

NIST had crippled information by failing to include explosives as a possible suspect in their investigation... and as such - they came up with some unbelievable theories which don't even being to explain the most perplexing events of the collapses, namely, the speed at which the buildings fell, the exploding walls with nothing touching them on WTC 2, and the miracle failure of the core columns.

I suggest you read this.
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

In other words, the momentum (which equals mass times velocity) of the 12 to 28 stories (WTC 1 and WTC 2, respectively) falling on the supporting structure below (which was designed to support only the static weight of the floors above and not any dynamic effects due to the downward momentum) so greatly exceeded the strength capacity of the structure below that it (the structure below) was unable to stop or even to slow the falling mass. The downward momentum felt by each successive lower floor was even larger due to the increasing mass.

The NIST is nothing but a big whitewash. What a Fraud.

Easy to say. Hard to prove. You've proven nothing.

 

[Curnir]

Wowy wow... what does this guy sound like... if not an 8 year old explaining what happened on 9/11. Very scientific... I must say.

And yet... you don't... seem to... u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d.

I wonder why.

I wonder why I even bother to write this, seeing as I am on your "dreaded" ignore list...

 

[ConspiRaider]

And yet... you don't... seem to... u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d.

I wonder why.

I wonder why I even bother to write this, seeing as I am on your "dreaded" ignore list...

It's for the children!

 

[Oliver]

@28th: You can actually see how the outer columns
are getting pulled inwards:

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

The same way it is explained in your video:

 

[Skibum]

@28th: You can actually see how the outer columns
are getting pulled inwards:

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Utter nonsense! Thats just hot air distorting the image.

 

[babazaroni]

@28th: You can actually see how the outer columns
are getting pulled inwards:

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

The same way it is explained in your video:

Oliver, I showed that to him. He calls it an optical illusion.

Here's his optical illusion post.

 

[28th Kingdom]

It's tough, believe me, to keep politics out of this. But you MUST try. I probably have as much respect for the Bush Administration as you do. Which is exactly why I'd NEVER even hint at accusing them of something this heinous, unless there was no doubt in any reasonable person's mind. That's some of what THEY have done! And here you are, mimicking their methods. Not only do you have to rise above the Bush Administration, you also have to rise above The Twoofers. Neither are interested in honesty. So it's up to you to get there, and we can help. That's why you're here at JREF. We all have to punch down our political leanings when evaluating the discourse of events such as 9/11. Political overtones serve only to distort and obscure.

Why do you believe that Americans are unwilling to kill other innocent Americans? Why... when thousands of Americans kill thousands of other innocent Americans every year... do you think these murders are like, "Wait a second... I can't kill you... you're my fellow American."

Here's the problem... if you are a good person (which I would hope you to be) a patriot and an honorable man... than I can understand how it might be hard for you to believe that people are capable of murdering innocent people, whether foreigners or their own countrymen... for sheer profit and greed. Nonetheless, do not project this good-heartedness onto others (especially the extremely elite and powerful) for that is naive of you to think that other people can't be filled with this heartless cruelty...just because you're not. Some individuals will kill any and everyone (regardless if it's their own countrymen) if it brings them more wealth and power... and that's a well documented fact throughout history.

Politicians (democrats and republicans) are the scummiest people on the earth. I'm not saying that if you have political beliefs associated with these parties that you are scum... and, I'm not talking about conservative and liberal beliefs per se... I'm talking about the elected individuals (politicians) who manipulate the American people and their morals and values, by projecting this phony image in the media... that preys on their good-heartedness.

The most powerful men throughout history have always been the most barbaric... it has been that way since the beginning of time and it will continue to be that way... And, if that's true... than why can you believe that rulers from other countries will murder their own innocent people, but can't believe that elements within the USG are willing to kill its own people?

I think you are blinded by your patriotism...but, trust me - these men responsible for 9/11 are not your fellow countrymen...nationalism means absolutely nothing to them... they only answer to two things, and that is money and power.

 

[R.Mackey]

You want my help? Okay.... since we didn't know what caused the collapses... and since planted explosives had to at least be considered as a potential cause... and since NIST didn't even factor explosives into their equations or theory... well, I would say that if you are working with crippled information... than you will produce crippled results.

(1) No. The NIST report describes what caused the collapses in excruciating detail.

(2) No they didn't. There is no evidence for explosives, and no unanswered questions that suggest explosives.

(3) They "didn't factor explosives" into their theory because there were none. Similarly, they didn't factor earthquakes, volcanoes, or Godzilla into their equations...

Crippled information? You might say that, but you'd be talking out of your hat. Which, it seems, is the only thing you know how to do.

NIST had crippled information by failing to include explosives as a possible suspect in their investigation... and as such - they came up with some unbelievable theories which don't even being to explain the most perplexing events of the collapses, namely, the speed at which the buildings fell, the exploding walls with nothing touching them on WTC 2, and the miracle failure of the core columns.

Just because you don't believe them doesn't make them "unbelievable." Your arrogance is astounding.

How does Perry Logan's expression go? "The dumber the Troofer, the smarter he thinks he is?" I think that's right.

The NIST is nothing but a big whitewash. What a Fraud.

You didn't even attempt to answer my question. Heck, I don't even think you know how.

 

[Oliver]

Oliver, I showed that to him. He calls it an optical illusion.

Here's his optical illusion post.

So it doesn´t really matter what NIST says? I mean
if they mentioned the whole collapse in the way 28th
would like to hear, he still wouldn´t believe them,
right?

 

[Skibum]

You didn't even attempt to answer my question. Heck, I don't even think you know how.

Thats it bucko, he's going to use the ignore button on you for "spamming" this thread with "nonsense" that he doesn't understand.

He demands we answer his crap, then won't answer simple questions. Awfuly one way of him.