Common Sense

[uk_dave]

Well, actually...a visual simulation of the WTC collapses would be a good first step. You know... it's only one of the most unique and mysterious structural failures in the history of the world... it would be nice if they (NIST) took the time to demonstrate their theories.

Well actually, no it wouldn't.

NIST isn't actually talking to people such as you, they are talking to professionals within the construction industry.

Provided that the calculations and modelling which NIST has done are accepted by those professionals then there is no need for further exposition.

Just because you lack the imagination and technical expertise to understand what you are being told does not mean that you have a right to have it simplified for you. NIST isn't in the entertainment business and the collapse of the WTC towers on 9/11, along with the deaths of innocent people, is not a suitable subject for your amusement.

 

[Mr.D]

The simulation would have to show how those 37 non-severed (virtually undamaged) core columns failed (all the way to the ground...in just seconds) and how the walls managed to explode without anything touching them (WTC 2 tilting upper mass)

Don't you understand that the video footage...already proves the NIST theory to be false?

In other words; No.

You demand a standard of evidence be presented to you that you have already rejected. (Although to your credit you did say you'd pay for it.)

We Truthers... actually adhere to scientific laws, probability, common logic and reason...

Actually all you've done is demonstrate that your arguments essentially boil down to "I don't believe the OT, so therefore it must not be true; and since it's untrue the OT must be false and I'm right."

 

[28th Kingdom]

How many times...have I mentioned the big picture and how you all like to plunder through the murky details? Ever heard this expression:

"Try not to get too bogged down in the details."

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=8586&dict=CALD

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4983462&ft=1&f=1057

"Senior news analyst Daniel Schorr says that the public should not become bogged down in the details of the investigation into who leaked the name of covert CIA agent Valerie Plame." (emphasis added)

 

[babazaroni]

What was the purpose? To investigate the collapses, right? Did NIST investigate the collapses? Yes or No? We will weed out the real loons with this one... cus we have NIST's statement that says they didn't focus on the events of the actual collapses...

They investigated up and through the moment of disproportionate collapse.

Why do we care where every steel chunk landed on the ground?

Did you think the collapse would magically stop at some point?

Their mandate was to find ways to make buildings safer, not satisfy your fantasies.

Check my signature. Do you agree with RemoveBush?

 

[Paul]

NIST's report stops RIGHT WHEN THE COLLAPSE BEGINS! HOW convenient!

Do you want to know what happened next?

the ...collapse ...continued ...until ...the ...tower ...had ...collapsed, ...when ...it ...stopped.

anything else you don't understand?

 

[Skibum]

NIST's report stops RIGHT WHEN THE COLLAPSE BEGINS! HOW convenient!

Because it doesn't matter to the people who matter. They already know what happens after global collapse starts. The whole building falls apart.

 

[28th Kingdom]

In other words; No.

You demand a standard of evidence be presented to you that you have already rejected. (Although to your credit you did say you'd pay for it.)


Actually all you've done is demonstrate that your arguments essentially boil down to "I don't believe the OT, so therefore it must not be true; and since it's untrue the OT must be false and I'm right."

No it boils down to the facts... one of them being that NIST aka the holy bible of how the buildings collapsed... didn't even investigate the collapses.

UK_Dave... shame is upon you for defending the gatekeepers of 9/11. How can you just sit there and turn a blind eye... have you no conscious?

 

[babazaroni]

How many times...have I mentioned the big picture and how you all like to plunder through the murky details? Ever heard this expression:

"Try not to get too bogged down in the details."

In other words, find the lowest resolution pic, squint and all truth will be revealed.

 

[Paul]

How many times...have I mentioned the big picture and how you all like to plunder through the murky details?

Those details are pesky little buggers aren't they. Minor stuff like you not having any evidence for any of your ideas can easily be dismissed as long as we believe the 'big picture'.

 

[The Doc]

The NIST wanted to know what caused the building to collapse to prevent it happening in the future.

Once it begins to fall - all bets are off.

 

[Oliver]

Do you want to know what happened next?

the ...collapse ...continued ...until ...the ...tower ...had ...collapsed, ...when ...it ...stopped.

anything else you don't understand?

I guess he meant a report like this:

...then the 99´th Floor collapsed and then the 98´th, which was a littlebit surprising because the 97 Floor
also collapsed. But lets get back to Floor 96...

 

[R.Mackey]

Let's take a poll, shall we?

Which is more important to you? You may only pick one:

Report A: The mechanics of the aircraft hitting the Twin Towers, damage after impact, damage due to fire, gradual weakening of the structure, performance of fire suppression and escape systems, and precise cause of the collapse

Report B: A blow-by-blow account of the Twin Towers coming apart, collapsing on itself, and finally crashing to the ground, including why it took about 15 seconds instead of, say, 20 seconds, and spiffy computer animation showing what it would have looked like without all the dust and debris in the way

28^th Kingdom, help me out with this. What, specifically, do you want to know about the WTC collapses that NIST didn't answer? Tell me why you're screaming "Fraud!" at the top of your lungs.

 

[babazaroni]

No it boils down to the facts... one of them being that NIST aka the holy bible of how the buildings collapsed... didn't even investigate the collapses.

When an aircraft disintegrates in midair, the investigators want to know what started the disintegration, not why all the pieces landed the way the did.

Do you think if they did not determine why all the pieces landed the way they did then they did not investigate?

 

[Skibum]

I guess he meant a report like this:

...then the 99´th Floor collapsed and then the 98´th, which was a littlebit surprising because the 97 Floor
also collapsed. But lets get back to Floor 96...

...this mass continued to floor 50 which caused the floor to collapse and the columns to bend, this mass continued to floor 49 which caused the floor to collapse and the columns to bend, this mass continued to floor 48 which caused the floor to collapse and the columns to bend...

 

[babazaroni]

28^th Kingdom, help me out with this. What, specifically, do you want to know about the WTC collapses that NIST didn't answer? Tell me why you're screaming "Fraud!" at the top of your lungs.

He really thinkgs the building would have stopped collapsing at some point.

Hence the need for explosives.

Exactly what RemoveBush believed.

 

[28th Kingdom]

Do you want to know what happened next?

the ...collapse ...continued ...until ...the ...tower ...had ...collapsed, ...when ...it ...stopped.

anything else you don't understand?

Wowy wow... what does this guy sound like... if not an 8 year old explaining what happened on 9/11. Very scientific... I must say.

BTW... where did the term, "Global Collapse," even originate? Did NIST make up this term? I THINK THEY DID!

Why no global collapse here:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4847/ntp10ini8.jpg

How the heck is that building standing...what about lateral loads and transferring loads...and traverse loads... this must be one magical building.

 

[uk_dave]

UK_Dave... shame is upon you for defending the gatekeepers of 9/11. How can you just sit there and turn a blind eye... have you no conscious?

My concience is very clear.

I had assumed that the collapse was initiated by the effect of heat on the floor trusses and the additional stress which this put on the connections between the trusses and the outer and inner columns.

NIST has explained and provided evidence which disproves my ad hoc theory because they have established that the outer columns failed first and that this initiated the collapse.

What happens after initiation is something for those of us with a suitable fertile imagination to consider since the data available for a precise description is lacking.

If NIST attempt to describe the complete collapse they would be obliged to identify which column hit which floor plan in what sequence of events all the way down to the ground. This they cannot and should not have to do.

If you want a description of the collapse after initiation read the popular mechanics book.

 

[Mr.D]

(Note that you have yet to demonstrate that you understand the difference between the acceleration of an object and its velocity, nor how either relates to freefall, or terminal velocity and how all of that relate to the time it takes a real world object to fall a given distance.)

We Truthers... actually adhere to scientific laws, probability, common logic and reason... to piece everything together in a very clear and detailed image of what actually happened on 9/11.

If, as you say you "adhere to scientific laws ..." Then please demonstrate in a clear manner that you have a good grasp of the simplest of scientific DEFINITIONS I have bolded above - if you cannot properly define the terms, you cannot apply the laws.

If you are seriously trying to convince people of the correctness of your argument, IT IS IN YOUR BEST INTEREST TO CONVINCE THEM THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THE SUBJECTS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Changing the subject, attacking strawman positions and obfuscating your points behind irrelevant points of view and asking technical questions while misusing the vocaublary DETRACTS FROM YOUR POSITION.

Now ... back to the topic. Just what is your "Perry Mason" moment with respect to "freefall speeds?"

 

[beachnut]

We Truthers... actually adhere to scientific laws, probability, common logic and reason... to piece everything together in a very clear and detailed image of what actually happened on 9/11. We certainly don't throw our hands up in the air and go... 8474 happens man. Planes hit buildings... and now we have three magical collapses... and new laws of physics to document...

You sure have fooled all of us. God you are one dumb rule8er!

I have yet to see proof of a truther using science, logic, and reason. I have see probability as in polls being used to prove your truth points. (truthers go "golly we have 86 percent say it was an inside job; we win case close!")

Dr Jones could not get his worked peer reviewed so he opened his own sandbox journal so he could play in the world and call it peer reviewed! Now his stuff is published in the big bathroom peer reviewed journal of all time! Hustler! Congratulations we can see Dr Jones right near a peer review story with photos on anatomy. Truly fantastic. The bare truth with the bare facts.

R Charlie Sheen and Alex Jones are your peers 28th? R you in danger of failing high school!?

 

[Skibum]

this must be one magical building.

No its just a totally different building design that was damaged differently.