Hello everyone, this is my first post here. I'm probably the dimmest bulb perusing these Patterson Film/Bigfoot threads, and I have no problems understanding SweatyYeti's points (in another thread) about evidence and possibilities/probabilities. Based on my experience, In my opinion, he's absolutely correct in most, if not all he has said. I don't see where he's being a "troll". I don't mean to diminish the scientific method, and I understand the importance of having strict criteria for gathering and analyzing evidence, but it seems to me that it is better suited for known quantities. However, if there is more mystery involved, it seems silly to me to out-of-hand dismiss weak, or "unreliable" evidence. Somewhere, someone mentioned "inconclusive" evidence as "unreliable", and as Huntster has pointed out before, if it was conclusive, it wouldn't be simply evidence, it would be proof. It also seems to be consistently forgotten by the opponents that the proponents here have been saying the evidence points to a possibility that these creatures might be real. Anyway, here is a true story that seemed appropriate here.
About 10 years ago, Two co-workers and I attended a homicide scene investigation seminar that was put on by the Cuyahoga County Coroner's Office, that was to include a mock homicide scene investigation. The seminar was held at a relatively small (perhaps 10-20 acre) metropark that had a toboggan run and a lodge and parking area. There were approx. 30 students total from different locales. The first half of the seminar was classroom stuff, taught by two Coroner's assistants. After the class portion, the Coroner's assistants briefed us about the mock investigation, and we broke for lunch while they prepared the scene. Upon returning, the remaining time of the seminar was for the mock homicide investigation, and I and a co-worker were chosen as the "first responders" to the scene. From there, we were instructed to do things how we would were this a real crime scene. In places where we would call for back-up, or for supervisors, evidence techs, or detectives, they would send in more of the students to join in the "investigation". They would do this until all students were involved. Everyone stood by the sidelines observing until, more people were "called" to the scene.
The assistants told me and my co-worker that there was a call at the metropark of a suspicious van parked in the lot. My partner and i (and the rest of the class) walked over to the parking lot where an old, VW bus was parked in a loop in the road at the south end of the parking area. I approached the van cautiously, as it was of the "panel van" variety, making it difficult to see in the back. There appeared to be no one in the front seats. Walking around the van, I noticed "blood" leaking out the side, sliding door and alerted my partner to this. We cautiously opened the door and discovered two "bodies" inside. (the bodies were a male and a female mannequin...we later learned that the Coroner's assistants used a real gun to shoot the mannequins to inflict their "injuries") Looking at the bodies, closest to the door was a male who held a revolver in his hand, and was somewhat sitting up. He had one bullet wound to his head. By him was a note ( I don't remember the exact text but was to the effect of "I'm sorry, but I love her and no one else can be with her") Lying down more toward the rear of the van was a female who also had one bullet wound to her head. We "called for back-up" and for a supervisor to come to the scene. I looked more closely around the van and it appeared to be a construction worker's van, as there were many tools inside and bags of chemicals and compounds. When the other guys arrived, we briefed them and discussed what we thought may have happened. It seemed, clearly, to be a murder/suicide. We checked for ID's and worked on gathering more info about the bodies, and more and more students were called to the scene. I began looking around the grassy area to the south of the van while students taped off the crime scene in an approx. 100 ft. diameter circle around the van. Eventually, the "Coroners" were called to the scene, and the Coroner's assistants joined in with now the entire class "working" the scene. Of course, so many people would not typically trample a real scene, but for the sake of the class...
As I mulled about in the grassy area looking for anything unusual, something was nagging at me about the van, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. After several minutes of looking, I stepped outside the caution tape and looked further down the grassy area. At one point, I turned and looked back at the van, with all the people mulling about it. I looked at the yellow tape I had exited and I got a strong feeling that we were all focusing too much around the van, and I wondered if there could be more than met the eye. Again, I sensed i saw something in the van but didn't register it properly, so I returned to the van and looked more closely at the contents. By this time, the bodies had been removed. I looked at the bags of compounds and tools, which appeared to be typical for concrete workers, and the compound bag closest to where the female had been was a bag of lime. Also lying on the floor next to where the girl had been was a shovel. It clicked in my mind, and I wondered if the man had originally intended on killing her but not himself, and had intended on burying her body. The bag of lime was not opened, and looking more closely at the shovel, there was no fresh dirt on it. It did not appear to have been used any time recently. Weighing possibilities, It appeared the murder suicide was a spur of the moment act, but perhaps he had given it more forethought. What if he had dug a grave previously? I walked away from the van again and looked around, still weighing possibilities. There really wasn't much to indicate such, but I had a strong feeling there could be more. I thought I should probably look for a grave dig, but thought I would look a fool if nothing was there, especially when I should be working on the crime scene. I knew the nagging wouldn't go if I didn't at least look into the possibility. I scanned the surrounding area and speculated, where might the murderer dig a grave? If he had previously dug a grave, I surmised it would stand to reason that he would park the van near to it. I scanned the woods adjacent to the grassy area I had checked. The woods were relatively dense and it rose uphill to a high ridge. I thought "the path of least resistance", and I again left the boundaries of the police line and found the nearest thinned-out area of foliage to enter the woods by.
As I trundled through the woods, I made considerable noise, breaking twigs and crunching old leaves. This apparently caught the attention of some of the guys back at the scene. Behind me, I heard someone ask another guy, "Where's he going!?" Another voice responded, "I don't know." The first voice called out, apparently to me, but sounding more for the benefit of the guys at the scene, "Hey buddy! the crime scene's over here!" This was met by chuckles from a large number of the guys. It stung a little, but I continued on, scanning the forest as I went deeper in and started ascending the hill. Further now from the guys at the crime scene, they continued shouting things to me, but their words were muffled. Their laughing was apparent though. It sounded as if all were now laughing at me. Finally, at a point perhaps 500 ft. away from the "crime scene", I stopped and scanned the surrounding forest floor in an area that seemed to be a little more sparsely green. Then I spotted, about 100ft. to the east, I pile of brush and dirt, and I could just make out a human hand sticking up from the ground.
The two Coroner's assistants gleefully exhumed the 2 more bodies, and got to the business of teaching us how they do "their thing" at a homicide scene. It was a shame that only 2 other class members joined us at the other scene to hear and observe their teachings. They later explained that the murderer had planned to kill his ex-girlfriend and bury her. However, two hikers, who's car was parked at another park many, many miles away, had come to the wrong place at the wrong time and paid the ultimate price. The murderer panicked, and ultimately killed himself after leaving a brief note.
Later, as we all returned to the lodge for debriefing, two guys walked up behind me and commented to one another in voices loud enough for me to easily hear, "Some people think their so smart!" "Yeah, I hate those guys who think they know everything!" Actually, I don't think that way at all, but I do like to consider possibilities. Of course, those other two bodies were not supposed to be found. THey were intended to be an explicit lesson to the class...to illustrate the importance of sometimes thinking outside the box. To look beyond the boundaries that we set upon ourselves, or that others try to impose on us. If you don't even entertain possibilities, you never know what you might miss. The Coroners,... the doctors, understood the value and importance of this.
BTW, Huntster, you are a national treasure!
