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Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

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It's $100,000, not $10,000. The challenge still stands as far as I know. It's through the The Willow Creek-China Flat Museum.

Does anyone know if the $100,000 really exists?

Green doesn't sound really convincing:

Green, who has authored four books on the mysterious gorilla-like biped, is raising the reward money, museum officials say.
He won't talk too much about the cash. But he swears it exists.
"It's a genuine offer, and it stands," he said. "The money's there."
So is he raising the money, or is it already there? And where is there?

LAL, I don't have the book you referenced, and the print is too small to read, is there someplace that has further details/protocols/etc. etc.?

RayG
 
Does anyone know if the $100,000 really exists?

Green doesn't sound really convincing:

So is he raising the money, or is it already there? And where is there?

LAL, I don't have the book you referenced, and the print is too small to read, is there someplace that has further details/protocols/etc. etc.?

RayG

I can read it if I click to enlarge. For some reason, if I size my files so they'll upload they seem much smaller after they're uploaded. But if I go to a larger size, they won't upload.

Daegling discussed it on pg. 180, but didn't reproduce the actual document. If I still had the link, I wouldn't have gone to the trouble of scanning the page.The museum's phone # is at the bottom of one of the links I provided.

This board needs global space for uploads, like BFF. And I need the head-banging smiley.

In his keynote address in 2003 Green said the offer had been there for several months already.

I tried resizing and saving in .gif; that made it worse., so I started almost over and cropped it into 4 sections. I can't control the order or whether they're imbeds or thumbnails, so I'm using two posts. You owe me for this. ;)
 

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Section 2:
 

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Really sad sir...

Yes there is some grass in the print.. try comparing it to the grass that is all around the print..

Okeydokey.

footprint_3a.JPG


All around the print? Most of the area around the print is as devoid of grass as the print itself as the ringed areas show. The only part of the surrounding area with a lot of grass is to the top right. Coincidentaly, there is also grass in the right side of the print.

I'm not saying this is a sasquatch print. Just pointing out the error in your earlier comment.
 
The only grass seems to be dead. The green stuff is mostly club moss.
 
Perhaps ol' Charchy and Lu could also enlighten the forum as to their fields of specialization (if we lowly pleebs deserve this honor, of course)?

Why should I? I'm not the one making bold pronouncements. I'm not ridiculing scientists who have looked into this first hand and one upping myself in the process.

I see you are still spending time posting. Did you come to a dead end with your considerations about how to win that $100,000 (or at least embarrass their challenge) already? Has it already gone out of your head or may we expect some kind of work from you in the future?? You aren't another Dfoot are you? No, I don't think so because I have heard no more or your considerations whereas Dfoot went on and on (and on).
 
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Maybe tube has elsewhere earned some ire but I still think belittling his experimentations that he's sharing here as 'by a lampmaker' sucks.

Oh come now. If tube wants to basically accuse scientists in the relevant fields of more or less participating in a 'cartoonish 'farce then he should expect a little "hmmmm ok, so that's what he does" banter between a couple of people who don't share his outspoken opinions.

Nothing wrong with tube's profession at all, but in the context of challenging anatomists, anthropologists and finger print experts etc, I thought it was 'interesting' to know what his background is/was.

Nothing more than that.
 
Does anyone know if the $100,000 really exists?

Green doesn't sound really convincing:

So is he raising the money, or is it already there? And where is there?

Maybe it's his own money? I think he is financially secure. Maybe it's in his bank account just sitting there, waiting, baiting some ingenious rapscallion to come and earn it????

No takers yet though.;)
 
Maybe it's his own money? I think he is financially secure. Maybe it's in his bank account just sitting there, waiting, baiting some ingenious rapscallion to come and earn it????

No takers yet though.;)

I will give you or anyone $100,000 if you will successfully fake a unicorn hoof print ..

Of course I will decide if you are successfull or not..



By the way, we are still waiting for a readable copy of that foot print challenge. so we can take a look at exactly what the criteria is ..
 
He made enough off his books to stop working for awhile, I've read. He's 80, so I assume he sold the paper and has been retired for awhile. He faulted Byrne for going clubbing with Tom Slick, so I doubt he partied his money away.

I have John on DVD delivering that keynote address. He didn't sound unconvincing at all. Where are you getting that, Ray?
 
I inquired about peer review a few years ago. Jeff's answer got swallowed in a glitch, but I found a summary I wrote:

"In respose to my inquiry about rejections, he replied that the meetings were the American Ass'n of Physical Anthropologists. He has had two abstracts accepted there, with very good dialogue. Also the Northwest Anthropological Conference, the Idaho Academy of Science, and the American Association for the Advancement of Science (Pacific Division). He also said he's working on manuscripts for publication as well, and just had a paper come out in the Journal of Scientific Exploration. (I've posted the link to that one.)"

I think I meant "review", not "dialogue" and I negleted to save the link, but the post was on BFF.

The implication that proponents aren't trying to publish is simply false.
 
BTW, Greg, you're back on ignore, so don't even waste your typing finger replying to me. I won't be getting e-mail notifications either, so the only way I'll see what you write is if someone reposts, and that's not going to get more than a glance. I've probably seen it all before anyway; you're not very original.
 
Oh come now. If tube wants to basically accuse scientists in the relevant fields of more or less participating in a 'cartoonish 'farce then he should expect a little "hmmmm ok, so that's what he does" banter between a couple of people who don't share his outspoken opinions.

Nothing wrong with tube's profession at all, but in the context of challenging anatomists, anthropologists and finger print experts etc, I thought it was 'interesting' to know what his background is/was.

Nothing more than that.
Respectfully, I think you are missing the core concept of my post. It may bug you (heck, I know it bugs me) but when it comes to bigfoot even nut-jobs like Beckjord can claim to know as much as Meldrum, Swindler, or Chilcutt. It's lame but it's true.

I can't stress enough how much I learned from considering the concept of filtration in regards to BF evidence. You can't sweep every 3, 4, and 6 toed track, every glowing red eyed, vanished in front of my eyes, UFO/orbs also seen in vicinity report under the rug because it doesn't fit your preconception of a sasquatch. Those things too are BF evidence.

As for you considering Tube's background 'interesting', IMO the word for that is 'gossip'.
 
Tube had this photo vertically on his website. I flipped it 90°. Does this look correct?
 
Respectfully, I think you are missing the core concept of my post. It may bug you (heck, I know it bugs me) but when it comes to bigfoot even nut-jobs like Beckjord can claim to know as much as Meldrum, Swindler, or Chilcutt. It's lame but it's true.

I can't stress enough how much I learned from considering the concept of filtration in regards to BF evidence. You can't sweep every 3, 4, and 6 toed track, every glowing red eyed, vanished in front of my eyes, UFO/orbs also seen in vicinity report under the rug because it doesn't fit your preconception of a sasquatch. Those things too are BF evidence.

As for you considering Tube's background 'interesting', IMO the word for that is 'gossip'.


Charchy's missed the point again.
By clinging to the misguided idea that "experts (like Meldrum, Chilcutt, etc.) can't be wrong," he's ignoring the fact that hundreds of other experts have said that Meldrum, Chilcutt, and their ilk are wrong. Want to root for the underdog? Fine. Tube's the only one doing experiments (science) to test ideas.
And as always, keep in mind, Meldrum, Chilcutt, Green, Noll, and Krantz are not and were not specialists in ichnology, and had little or no experience with animal-sediment interactions. Some "experts." And none are in relevent fields...sorry Charchy...you're wrong again.
Tube is quickly defining himself as an experimental ichnologist and in my opinion (for what it's worth), is far more informed and intuitive about how organisms interact with substrate than any of the BF-gurus I've spoken with or heard from.
 
Great idea, DY! Try Rick Noll. Maybe he's still willing to let you examine the original Skookum Cast.

LAL, surely you remember Rick's non-scientific conditions/limitations that DY would have to accept in order to examine the cast? To the uninformed you make it sound like DY could just waltz into town and examine the cast at his leisure, when that's not the case at all. As I said elsewhere, "I'm certainly not against DY looking at the original cast, nor even making a scientific pronouncement about it, but as a scientist, he should not be forced to play by non-scientific rules."

Others voiced similar concerns.

I'd like to see you fake an entire trackway and invite Dr. Meldrum (who's examined five) to examine it in situ.
And I'd like to see and experiment to determine if Dr. Meldrum (and others) can "differentiate between prints made by real feet, and prints made by forgeries", as DY asked in the initial post of this thread.

The conditions are pretty reasonable on the $100,000 challenge.
In your opinion. The challenge admits, "...the conditions are not easy", and in my opinion they're not so reasonable either.

For example, the first paragraph says,

"One hundred thousand dollars is being offered by the Willow Creek China FLat Museum for anyone who can demonstrate how the "Bigfoot" tracks that were observed in the Bluff Creek valley in northern California in 1958 and later could have been made by a human or humans."

What do they mean by "and later"? Does that mean a single applicant must duplicate ALL "Bigfoot" tracks that have been found after 1958?

Anyone know whether a formal challenge has been issued? I ask because they state,

"A formal document settiing out the requirements to qualify for the award will take time to prepare..."

When they say, "The money has been arranged for..."

How so? What do they mean by "arranged for"?

Just duplicate the tracks as they were found in 1958.
As they were found? Where? Which ones? Why so many specific conditions on how the tracks are laid, but not which ones they're being compared to? Read Green. His slim, reference-free volume The Sasquatch File (pages 21-23, 29, 30, 37-39, 45, 46), indicates numerous tracks in different terrain, on different days, in different locations in or near Bluff Creek.


Here's how they specify the conditions:

...a successful applicant will have to be able to make flat-footed, humanlike tracks with more than twice the area of human feet and longer-than-human strides which do the following:
  • Traverse a variety of terrain, including climbing, descending and crossing steep slopes covered with underbrush;
  • Show variation of shape and toe position and stride accommodating to the terrain;
  • Sink into firm ground to far greater depth than human footprints specifically as much as an inch deep in hard sand where human prints barely penetrate at all;
  • Leave hard objects in the ground, such as stones, sticking up above the rest of the track.

I wasn't aware ALL the tracks/trackways, whether they were in Bluff Creek or not, show such variety and detail.

In addition, the applicant has certain restraints on HOW he may leave these details behind.

"The applicant will also have to make these tracks under the following conditions, although not all in combination:

  • In the dark, hundreds in a single night;
  • In places where it is impossible to bring any vechicle or other machine or any equipment except what humans & animals could carry;
  • Without doing anything to attract the notice of people a few hundred yards away."

At least this time there seems to be some choice, as not ALL conditions need to be applied at the same time.


Since the Wallace family claimed Ray faked the tracks and supposedly knew how it was done, it should have been an easy matter for them to collect the $100,000.
Is that why the challenge is worded in a way that seems to excludes them? "...it is not meant as a challenge to the people who originated that story, who may well be perfectly sincere."

In fact, they were the reason the reward was offered in the first place. John was tired of their nonsense.
Is this a fact, or merely your opinion? John seems to think 'they' may be perfectly sincere, it's the publicity of a perceived hoax at Bluff Creek that was the impetus for the challenge (at least that's what the challenge says).

Great point LAL. A point which has never been successfully refuted.

Why, was there a challenge issued to refute it? :cool:

RayG
 
I can't stress enough how much I learned from considering the concept of filtration in regards to BF evidence. You can't sweep every 3, 4, and 6 toed track, every glowing red eyed, vanished in front of my eyes, UFO/orbs also seen in vicinity report under the rug because it doesn't fit your preconception of a sasquatch. Those things too are BF evidence.

As for you considering Tube's background 'interesting', IMO the word for that is 'gossip'.

Evidently tube finds it interesting too. He posted it. His lamps can be seen on his website.

The examples above may be evidence of mistaken identity, sleep paralysis, psychosis, electrical discharges from granite deposits, deer scrapings, eye-shine (as opposed to actual glowing) or teenagers. Part of an investigator's job is to determine credibility and consider other explanations.

Byrne was one who gave up "hot pursuit" after a number of hoax phone calls and a sincere sighting................of a tree stump.

Sightings I knew of in Skamania county were mundane, of the seeing a sas cross the road variety. All the feet involved seem to have had five toes.

Should every nutjob that comes down the pike be regarded in the same light as a tenured professor, a professor emeritus, a seasoned researcher with honorary degrees? Is a guy who sells coffee mugs and argues online as much of an "expert" as Rick Noll or Jeff Meldrum?

Other than Honey Island (a hoax) and Fouke, I've seen little on three toes, less on four and none on six. I've just ordered some older books, so maybe I'll find that photo from Pennsylvania in one. I'll see if I can find an older edition of Apes Among Us through the library; the photo does not seem to be in my edition and I don't recall seeing it anywhere but here.

If there's anything to 3-toes, it's been suggested the population is inbred. They seem to only occur in the east (if there's any validity to them at all).

Bossburg's below.

cripfoot.jpg


http://home.clara.net/rfthomas/bf_prints.html

The deformity may have been metatarsus adductus. The base of the "missing" toe can be seen in a cast (so graciously provided by DY), but the rest is elevated or missing. The prints from the other foot were normal with five toes.

Tracks like those were seen some 20 years earlier by a farmer and 5-6 years later by a student of Krantz', BTW.
 
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