How Loony are the Loons?

The USS Liberty? What's she doing here?

I guess that the US has never attacked it's own? Does the U.S.S. Liberty ring any bells? LBJ "I want that god damn ship on the bottom of the ocean!"

Going to provide any proof for this particular lie? Even the most rabid anti-Semites blame that on the Israelis! :boggled:

And while we're at it...relevance, Milord?

I think this is a straw man argument. arugmentum ad prosper hoc...I'll let the experts on this correct me. I call it idiocy. :)
 
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Just to rub some salt in here:

Just think, RemovedBrain. A lowly electrical tech can figure out how to use the quote function. Why can't an engineer of such supreme intelligence as yourself not do the same?

Just asking questions!
 
Just to rub some salt in here:

Just think, RemovedBrain. A lowly electrical tech can figure out how to use the quote function. Why can't an engineer of such supreme intelligence as yourself not do the same?

Just asking questions!

BrainsRemoved is the ensjuneer on the... woo woo train! All aboard!

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I guess I should point out to RB that his silly fabricated nonsense has not persuaded too many of us that the WTC was going to be condemned. It wasn't, you know.
 
Not at all! Do you realize that resistance is a powerful force and that the collapse would have been slowed and eventually stopped at some point before the ground level. The reason for demolition is to remove that resistance! Progressive collapse is possible, but only for a short period of time. Eventually the building will provide enought resistance to stop the fall, this did not happen so somethign came into play.

Provide evidence of this. The NIST investigators and every other structural engineer in the world disagree with you.

You do realize that the AIR was filed with salt??? You do realize that salt can eat away exposed steel?

"Eat away", huh? So why are the other buildings in lower Manhattan still all right? Sounds like special pleading to me. Besides, the internal columns were hardly "exposed".

You guys simply grab onto one plausible explaination and run with it without even THINKING about the other plausible methods.

Actually, we have examined the extensive evidence available and come to the conclusion that the NIST explanation for the collapse makes the most sense. Why is that hard for you to accept?

That is what distiguishes a scientist/engineer from the "common sense" person, we look at all options. You simply want to hekle and refuse to consider ANYTHING that YOU think does not fit.

Actually, what distinguishes an engineer is their engineering training. Please provide evidence that you both have and continue to understand that training. You have still refused to provide mathematical refutations to the NIST explanation of the collapse.

I guess that the US has never attacked it's own? Does the U.S.S. Liberty ring any bells? LBJ "I want that god damn ship on the bottom of the ocean!"

I'm assuming you mean this.

Please provide evidence that this was an intentional attack by the US.

Stop with such a close minded view.

I believe you will find me quite open to evidence and technical argumentation as opposed to rhetoric, insults, and insinuation.

If the evidence is there and the scientific community agrees then it is provable. However, the scientific community DOES NOT agree on the results the government has provided. Therefore, science HAS NOT proven anything. You simply believe the governments version blindly and without even considering any other options.

Please provide evidence that the scientific community does not agree with the government results.

Notice that I don't claim that those planes were not the ones stated. I simply state that I don't know and I question the validity because no evidence has been provided. BIG DIFFERENCE!

But you didn't provide evidence that the official FAA records were incorrect. Thus any questioning without evidence that the records are incorrect is baseless paranoia. Do you doubt your own identity because the government issued your birth certificate?

2 ATC personnel reportedly stated that they watched 2 of the planes travel over the Atlantic and then in a single sweep of the scope they dissapeared.

Please provide evidence of this.

The interviews of ATC personnel were ripped up and trashed in multiple trash cans. Sorry, but unless someone has something to hide they don't do this. Also, notice that no charges were brought against this supervisor for destroying EVIDENCE to a crime!

Please provide evidence of this.

Maybe if you could open you minds rather than being THICK headed, you would see there ARE other options and reasons. Not all are correct, but so far the official version has been proven wrong by experts as well.

Provide evidence of this assertion, especially the last part.

You sure haven't shown us any evidence that whatever theory you have is at all likely.

You claim to be an engineer, so get into the math of it. Prove to me in the pure language of mathematics that the towers couldn't have fallen any other way than... whatever theory you're saying is true (I'm assuming controlled demolitions, but it's kind of hard to tell).

A mathematical formula is not subject to rhetoric. We have several posters who are qualified to evaluate any math you care to post. I am not a mathematician or engineer, but I am hardly math illiterate and will do my best to follow along.

So post some calculations.
 
"Please provide evidence of this."

Lack of the scientific community having been provided with the information! Evidence provided!

"I know we ask every single damn CTist this question, but: Have you read the NIST report, either in whole or in part?"

Yes I have, and it leaves more questions then answers. For example: NIST does not address the mechenism for the collapse. It only addresses the collapse. Not very good scientific investigating if they can preciecly define how the building fell so neatly, but they can't provide ONE ounce of evidence or information about the mechenism.

"Why do you feel the need to insult other posters."

Because they want to insult, I will return in kind. If they want to debate then do that. But all this "looney", "kooky", "nuts", etc. comments will not be tolerated by me and I will return in kind 10 fold.

"Again, why the attacks on people? Could you please stick with factual debate. And please format your writing in a clearer manner, using the quote function and college level grammar."

See previous comment. This is NOT a spelling site and I do not need to put my posts through a spell checker. You can certainly understand the meaning with a few spelling errors. If your that anal, well then just skip my posts because I do not worry about spelling. It is the content of things I worry about!

"RemoveBush, you really should go through the other threads in this section and actually read them. All these things you've brought up have been discussed before, and most of the people here are getting tired of the same old BS being touted as "new evidence" that will simply blow our socks off."

This is why your like are becoming the minority! You TWIST and SPIN things to fit YOUR needs. NOWHERE have I ever stated "new evidence" or "will blow your socks off" comments NOWHERE!

This is why I make comments like: Do you have a reading comprehension problem??? Because "IF" you were to actually read my posts, NOWHERE would you EVER find a claim from me anything that you just stated!

"If you want to have a productive discussion, then please prepare more thoroughly. You have already begun to resort to calling posters names, which does not support your argument or bolster your credibility."

I see.... So it's perfectly acceptable by you people to TWIST things to make them fit your attacks? Its fine to place words in peoples mouths? It's OK for all that, but god forbid someone stands up to your LIES and refused to back down from your rediculous alterations of a persons statements?

I see! It amazes me how you can make claims about "truthers", yet you do it more and in worse cases.
 
"The dead bodies and body parts found at the crash sites match the passenger manifests. That PROVES those were the four planes in question....unless you are including the Somerset County and NYC Coroner's Offices in your conspiracy theory."

Considering that the state coroner has jurisdiction in any crime, but the FBI took over the crime scene and they refused to allow the state coroner to do their job, this leaves room for the ability of the victims DNA to be falsified.

I am not saying they are not dead, but when PROTOCAL is defeated throughout the entire process on 9/11..... Well it's not rocket science to determine that something was trying to be covered up. Was it national securty to prevent the state coroner from doing his job?
 
So, I think we have our evidence on the OP of this thread. How looney are the loons? See for yourself!

Thanks, RemovedBrain! You're the best example we could have asked for!
 
RemoveBush, I am having trouble believing that you are having difficulty using the quote function, its not rocket science - just highlight the text you wish to quote and left click on the
quote.gif
button. If you want to respond to a single post just click the
quote.gif
button at the bottom-right of the message.

Also, your poor spelling and grammar are the worst I've ever seen from an engineer. If you think not quoting and purposely using poorish grammar is helping your :socks: endeavours, you are mistaken.
 
Subtle Nuances

"Please provide evidence of this."

"Lack of the scientific community having been provided with the information! Evidence provided!"

"I know we ask every single damn CTist this question, but: Have you read the NIST report, either in whole or in part?"

"Yes I have, and it leaves more questions then answers. For example: NIST does not address the mechenism for the collapse. It only addresses the collapse. Not very good scientific investigating if they can preciecly define how the building fell so neatly, but they can't provide ONE ounce of evidence or information about the mechenism."


I love it! "NIST does not address the mechenism [sic] for the collapse." Uh, excuse me, but that is precisely what the NIST report DOES, in exhaustive detail. We are asked to differentiate between explaining how the building fell and providing the mechanism for its fall. Did anyone say, a distinction without a difference?
 
Lack of the scientific community having been provided with the information! Evidence provided!

Sorry, but lack of evidence isn't evidence of anything. Please provide some links demonstrating widespread scientific dissatisfaction with the NIST investigation.

Yes I have, and it leaves more questions then answers. For example: NIST does not address the mechenism for the collapse. It only addresses the collapse. Not very good scientific investigating if they can preciecly define how the building fell so neatly, but they can't provide ONE ounce of evidence or information about the mechenism.

What aspect of the "mechenism" [sic] of the collapse do you feel was inadequately addressed? Various reports deal with the damage from the impact, the fire damage, and the collapse initiation itself. Assuming you read all the final reports, what do you feel should have been talked about more.

Because they want to insult, I will return in kind. If they want to debate then do that. But all this "looney", "kooky", "nuts", etc. comments will not be tolerated by me and I will return in kind 10 fold.

Not a good debating practice. It makes you look 10 times worse than they do.

See previous comment. This is NOT a spelling site and I do not need to put my posts through a spell checker. You can certainly understand the meaning with a few spelling errors. If your that anal, well then just skip my posts because I do not worry about spelling. It is the content of things I worry about!

But you must realize that your ability to convey complex ideas comes into question when you can't even keep your grammar straight.

In any case, it is mostly irrelevant.

Your refusal to use the quote function is annoying, however. It makes your writing very difficult to read and harder to respond to. Please consider using this extremely useful feature.

This is why your like are becoming the minority! You TWIST and SPIN things to fit YOUR needs. NOWHERE have I ever stated "new evidence" or "will blow your socks off" comments NOWHERE!

Nor did I say you did, but thank you for putting those words in my mouth regardless. When I use quotes I am not implying you stated something. I use the quote function for that.

You hauled up the same topics as every other CTist that has come here. I would assume this is because you believe you are capable of convincing us. Did you bother to chart the course of the other discussions, or did you just dive right on in?

I see.... So it's perfectly acceptable by you people to TWIST things to make them fit your attacks? Its fine to place words in peoples mouths? It's OK for all that, but god forbid someone stands up to your LIES and refused to back down from your rediculous alterations of a persons statements?

Please provide the point at which I have put words in your mouth, twisted your statements, or lied. Every quote from you I have simply used as a frame of reference for my responses to you. Please provide evidence that any other poster has done this.

If they have indeed altered your statements, I would be most strongly opposed. This is not the sort of board for that kind of behavior.

I have consistently asked you to provide evidence for your claims through the use of outside links, which you have refused to do so.

I have tried to clear up some misconceptions you seem to have regarding the financial situation of the towers because I am knowledgable in the areas of finance and particularly insurance. As an engineer you would not have firsthand experience with the insurance industry, and I have noticed a lot of confusion on the CT sites about how exactly insurance in general works.

You have not bothered to check facts on issues as simple as the takeoff weight of a 707 versus a 767. You have not bothered to see what the outcome of the court case regarding the WTC insurance payment was. Those indicate that you are not particularly interested in correlating your beliefs with reality.

I leave the rest to those with specialized experience. We have engineers, mathematicians, and architects on this board. Perhaps you should start a more technical discussion with them.

I see! It amazes me how you can make claims about "truthers", yet you do it more and in worse cases.

Yes, yes, we're all horrible people. :rolleyes:

Perhaps now you will post mathematical and structural data supporting your claims about the destruction of the towers.
 
"The government provided the flight numbers of the hijacked aircraft. According to the FAA registry, those aircraft were both 767's. Ball's in your court now. Provide evidence the government records are incorrect."

According to those records, 2 of the planes do not have takeoff, taxi, or schedules for that day! Yet your saying I have to provide proof of those being the plane??

You really don't understand how evidence works very well do you?

"First off, what sort of engineer are you? You seem unwilling to deal with mathematics, structural concepts, or physics issues."

I have already stated that MULTIPLE time.... Electronics engineer.

"If you are in fact an engineer, could you talk more about the technical issues at play here? You have yet to post any kind of information about what should have happened if the towers were hit with planes, compared with information about what you believe did happen to bring them down. I'd like to see some things with formulas and calculations. Especially as we have a few technically experienced people here to evaluate anything you do post.

You believe that no evidence for the official theory exists, but you are wrong. Again, have you read the NIST report?"

I have provided information.... The towers would have slowed and eventually stopped with several floors remaining visible. The reason for CD is to remove the resistance of the building so that it WILL fall all the way down otherwise, exactly what I just stated will happen.

"Did you read any of the links on that page? Did you read the NY Times articles? How about the release from the Port Authority?"

Yes I did. The point I was making is that YOU people will ALWAYS complain about what infomation we provide. Yet you can provide many similar types of information and that is PERFECTLY OK! I have been over to this site many times. Some of the information I agree with and others I do not.

Again, the point is that YOU people select and chose what information is valid! If it does not come from a web site YOU agree with, then the information is from a "kook"!

You can't have it both ways. Either information that comes from someone who is NOT poised to make such determinations is acceptable to all or they are not! So if someone places a link, like this one http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/index.html, then don't make claims that it is trash! There is very viable information in there and some not so.
 
In that case...

"The dead bodies and body parts found at the crash sites match the passenger manifests. That PROVES those were the four planes in question....unless you are including the Somerset County and NYC Coroner's Offices in your conspiracy theory."

Considering that the state coroner has jurisdiction in any crime, but the FBI took over the crime scene and they refused to allow the state coroner to do their job, this leaves room for the ability of the victims DNA to be falsified.

I am not saying they are not dead, but when PROTOCAL is defeated throughout the entire process on 9/11..... Well it's not rocket science to determine that something was trying to be covered up. Was it national securty to prevent the state coroner from doing his job?

They falsified the DNA. How did they do that?

And where are the actual passengers?

And how did they fake the phone calls from the planes?

And who attacked USS Liberty?

And what has USS Liberty to do with this?

How about some documented, provable answers, not theory, supposition, speculation, and conspiracy mania?
 

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