How Loony are the Loons?

apathoid said:
Save it - you got caught. Stateofgrace is an EE, JimBenArm is a electroincs tech and I'm an aviation electrician. None of us have ever heard of, let alone used, a electrometer. The devices that an electronics tech uses 90% of the time or more are multimeters and O-scopes - not electroscopes and spectroscopes(WTF?!?)
How about you come clean and start over.
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yeah, we established a while ago that a nuclear physicist would use a electrometer

also, i think a chemist would have the most use for a spectrometer

what an automotive electronics engineer is doing with them i havent the foggiest
 
"T.A.M.", at least you can debate..... Thanks.... Now to answer your questions.

1) Actually, things can and do have "speed" and "velocity", it just matters on the context.
"Just as distance and displacement have distinctly different meanings (despite their similarities), so do speed and velocity. Speed is a scalar quantity which refers to "how fast an object is moving." A fast-moving object has a high speed while a slow-moving object has a low speed. An object with no movement at all has a zero speed.
Velocity is a vector quantity which refers to "the rate at which an object changes its position." Imagine a person moving rapidly - one step forward and one step back - always returning to the original starting position. While this might result in a frenzy of activity, it would result in a zero velocity. Because the person always returns to the original position, the motion would never result in a change in position. Since velocity is defined as the rate at which the position changes, this motion results in zero velocity. If a person in motion wishes to maximize their velocity, then that person must make every effort to maximize the amount that they are displaced from their original position. Every step must go into moving that person further from where he/she started. For certain, the person should never change directions and begin to return to where he/she started from."

2) The discussion can be based in several ways. Speed is correct for one type, velocity might be for another. "time of free fall" is correct when refering to a CD or simliar collapse.


3) I don't claim to be qualified to have all the answer. I do claim to be qualified to the extent that I perfrom mathematical calculations everyday and I rely anylize the data and use that data to come to conclusions. Unlike many of the people commenting here tonight! Many, as I can tell, have no experience or any high level education to have the ability to take data and analyze it. They rely upon "common sense" to form their judgments. Common sense does not always beat out physics.


4) NIST and their team was were largely made up of people who rely upon the government to obtain their income. They were directly told by the Bush admin what they should look for. i.e. that it was caused by the plane and the fire. Not to investigate and rule out all possible/plausible situations. NIST violated their own SOP (standard operating procedure) in that they did not investigate all possible senerios. A scientist/engineer will investigate the issue even if they do not feel that it is viable, just to ensure they can 100% rule it out. NIST states they did not pursue this. Against thier SOP.


5) "The WTCs were brought down by a combination of (1) Severing of many of the exterior and interior steel columns from plane impact, (2) removal of the majority of the steel structures fireproofing, and (3) Widespread fires intitiated by the airliner jet fuel, then maintained and superheated by the contents of the office buildings that burned as a result. The degree of impact each of the above had on the building collapse initiation, varies between the two towers."


I cannot prove or disprove this, but neither can anyone else. How about providing evidence as to how a pool of molten iron can be formed and flowing within the rubble of all 3 WTC's without an external source to generate the temperatures needed?


6) Grainy video?? How about the fact that FIREFIGHTERS are making statements that the largest piece found was a 1" piece of a phone. "No chairs, desks" etc... Not my words the words of a fireman. You believe that there was piles of debris left from the WTC???? There was nothing left of the buildings, even though both was hit diferently they both fell IDENTICALLY.


7) So now you are mind reader?? I don't know what they believe, and they have not stated it in public except to say that 9/11 is not what we were told.

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/

So answer me this then...


1) What allowed the other buildings in the area, which received much more damage to remain standing while only WTC1, 2, and 7 fell? WTC 5 was on fire completely for hours and had extreme damage to it, yet it did not collapse. They had to "pull it" latter after the recovery ended.


2) Why was NIST restricted in how it would perform its investigation? Why did it not test for ALL plausible situations per their SOP?


3) Why does the Government still to this day state that only 1 black box was recovered when rescue workers state they helped the FBI recover 3 of the 4 from the WTC? Why deny this when rescue workers state they were found?


4) Why does NIST refuse to address the discrepencies found in the FDR from flight 77 and flight 93?


5) Why has the government refused and faught so hard from ANY investigation into the worst attack on US soil since Pearl Harbor. Why did it take over a year to get Bush to allow them and then only with limited funding to ensure it would fail?


This should be enough for now, let's see how you answer these and then I'll hit you with some harder questions.

 
" are you sure you didnt just read our posts then google for a quote?"

I provided a DEFENTION for you to grasp, and you still find a way to twist and spin things.

It measures radiation...... Whether it is Voltage, Current, etc. etc. It is not a multimeter. A multimeter needs to be connected to something. This can measure the "radiation" of something. It is so sensitive that if you wave your hand over it, it will pick it up and show a reading.

My god, no wonder you guys can't comprehend basic physics.
 
"Just asking questions."

Go ask a 1st year college student.... I'm not going to play your little game....

They are all relational to one another, and this is all I need to state about that!
 
stateofgrace said:
Wow you googled it and actually found an electrometer.

Hey here’s a quickie for you to Google also, or maybe you could answer straight away. Voltage, current and resistance, what exactly is the relationship?

Just asking questions.
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Well, voltage, that's like what was on the fences at Jurassic Park, right? Or was the voltage inside the park and the fences were just to keep you away from it so you couldn't pet it and get the shock of a lifetime or something? Anyway one of those two, doesn't really matter. Voltage is just - well - VOLTAGE!

Now the Current is like how much is the voltage right NOW, see what I'm saying? Because voltage is only accurate right when you measure it, like currently. As soon as you kick back, take a drag on the smokerino and measure again it could be All Different. So it's always important to know the Current Voltage remember that.

Resistance is what we CTs are all about man! Sheez! The Gov says the Voltage is one thing and we RESIST! They say the Current Voltage is no lie it's real as of Now, and we RESIST! They say we are exactly correct about everything and we RESIST! (um, wait) But we DO resist because they want us to THINK that they think we're right about what we think! I think...

But like those silly formulae like:

P = E * I
P = I (squared) * R
P = E (squared) / R

Just subterfuges, man.
 
RemoveBush said:
It is not a multimeter. A multimeter needs to be connected to something. This can measure the "radiation" of something. It is so sensitive that if you wave your hand over it, it will pick it up and show a reading.

My god, no wonder you guys can't comprehend basic physics.
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For the love of Pete. Here is something for you to Google: What is the first rule of holes?
 
RemoveBush said:
" are you sure you didnt just read our posts then google for a quote?"

I provided a DEFENTION for you to grasp, and you still find a way to twist and spin things.

It measures radiation...... Whether it is Voltage, Current, etc. etc. It is not a multimeter. A multimeter needs to be connected to something. This can measure the "radiation" of something. It is so sensitive that if you wave your hand over it, it will pick it up and show a reading.

My god, no wonder you guys can't comprehend basic physics.
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speaking of basic physics why is the equivilent of 120 tons of TNT (excess energy at 5 seconds slower than freefall time) not enough to account for the damage at the WTC, but 10 tons of explosives is?
 
"Save it - you got caught. Stateofgrace is an EE, JimBenArm is a electroincs tech and I'm an aviation electrician. None of us have ever heard of, let alone used, a electrometer. The devices that an electronics tech uses 90% of the time or more are multimeters and O-scopes - not electroscopes and spectroscopes(WTF?!?)
How about you come clean and start over."

Hey IDIOT! I never said I used one I said " I have dealt with Electrometers, and Spectrometers."

They are used in many areas, just not TECH benches like you are describing. My god, where do you people come from???? Are you really this ignorant or are you just trying to waste time.

If you have a Tech bench and you are having issues with your measurements, you will hire someone to come in and analyze your electrical bench and your electrical outlets. One of the instruments they will more than likely bring with them is an electrometer.

Here is one that I have worked on in the past!

http://www.varianinc.com/cgi-bin/nav?ecat/sci/391824490
 
RemoveBush said:
"Just asking questions."

Go ask a 1st year college student.... I'm not going to play your little game....

They are all relational to one another, and this is all I need to state about that!
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No they are not, you as a professional electronics engineer should know this.

Now, Voltage, current and resistance ,which law governors them?

Any electronic engineer knows this, even a 1st year collage student.
 
"For the love of Pete. Here is something for you to Google: What is the first rule of holes?"

Now your obviously a person who performs his calculations based on the "conventional" way rather then the "electron flow" way.

Holes are what "conventional" discussions refer to when they are talking about current flow, the absense of an electron is a hole.
 
RemoveBush said:
"For the love of Pete. Here is something for you to Google: What is the first rule of holes?"

Now your obviously a person who performs his calculations based on the "conventional" way rather then the "electron flow" way.

Holes are what "conventional" discussions refer to when they are talking about current flow, the absense of an electron is a hole.
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actually the answer is "when youre in one, STOP DIGGING!"
 
"speaking of basic physics why is the equivilent of 120 tons of TNT (excess energy at 5 seconds slower than freefall time) not enough to account for the damage at the WTC, but 10 tons of explosives is?"

First, I was not giving an ABSOLUTE to the 10 tons statement!

Second, the explosives will provide less resistance hence more ENERGY since the building can fall without as much resistance.

Therefore, the energy is more by reducing the resistance the building has and increases it's potential energy.
 
"No they are not, you as a professional electronics engineer should know this."

Actually they are.....

If you increase resistance, you decrease current.

If you increase voltage, you increase current.

RELATIONAL!
 
RemoveBush said:
Hey IDIOT! I never said I used one I said " I have dealt with Electrometers, and Spectrometers."
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:rolleyes:

They are used in many areas, just not TECH benches like you are describing. My god, where do you people come from???? Are you really this ignorant or are you just trying to waste time.
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Okay then, when would I need to use an electroscope? Why would I use one over Volt-Ohmmeter?
If you have a Tech bench and you are having issues with your measurements, you will hire someone to come in and analyze your electrical bench and your electrical outlets. One of the instruments they will more than likely bring with them is an electrometer.
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Negative. My bench has 3 lambda power supplies(28VDC,115AC and 5 VDC), an O scope, a Simpson 260 VOM, a Fluke 87 and if i have "trouble with my measurments" I send the trouble unit to cal.(No, not California). I dont call the nuclear plant and have someone bring down an electroscope to work my outlets..:rolleyes:
 
RemoveBush said:
"speaking of basic physics why is the equivilent of 120 tons of TNT (excess energy at 5 seconds slower than freefall time) not enough to account for the damage at the WTC, but 10 tons of explosives is?"

First, I was not giving an ABSOLUTE to the 10 tons statement!

Second, the explosives will provide less resistance hence more ENERGY since the building can fall without as much resistance.

Therefore, the energy is more by reducing the resistance the building has and increases it's potential energy.
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you claimed a "hell of a lot more" energy was required to pulverize the buildings than that which gravity provided, gravity provided the eqivilient of 120 tons or more of TNT, this is absolute since its based on how fast the buildings fells (this calculation assume 14.2 seconds, average between your 12 and 16 second estimates) any additional energy must have been provided by explosives

oh, BTW, im gonna let other rip into you for the "increases its potential energy" part, lol

130 tons is not a "hell of a lot more" than 120 tons as far as im concerned (thast why i asked you to quantify "hell of a lot" but you never did)
 
"so what applications does a gas chromograph have that an electronics engineer might utilize?"

I never said I used one, YOU are the one taking a statement and twisting it to fit your needs....

Just what you claim the CTers do. I told you I work in Electronics. I can encounter different equipment at different times, but you have this very NARROW thought capability.

Just like when a truther shows a quote from a police or fireman, you people will say they "meant" this rather than what they said.

Why don't you stop trying to twist things??? I have dealt with Electrometers and Spectrometers, that does not necessarily meant that they sat on my bench. It could also meant that I designed tests for them, after all I am a Engineer.

MORON!
 
RemoveBush said:
"For the love of Pete. Here is something for you to Google: What is the first rule of holes?"

Now your obviously a person who performs his calculations based on the "conventional" way rather then the "electron flow" way.

Holes are what "conventional" discussions refer to when they are talking about current flow, the absense of an electron is a hole.
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Somebody needs to wave his brain over his electrometer to test for activity.
 
"Okay then, when would I need to use an electroscope? Why would I use one over Volt-Ohmmeter?"

First, I have not clue wath an electroscope is so I can't even begin to tell you because this is something YOU just made up.

Second, if your refering to an electrometer then you would use it for investigating small changes in energy which a voltmeter is incapable of measuring. Usually in the pAmps or fAmps.
 
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