20/20 Report About Belief About Heaven

Brown

Penultimate Amazing
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Barbara Walters of ABC News (USA) aired a report about people's beliefs about heaven.

My reaction is that the report was interesting. Many were interviewed, and a number of conclusions seemed pretty clear:
  • No one has any objective proof that there is a heaven;
  • There considerable disagreement as to what heaven is like;
  • There is hardly any agreement as to what a person must do to get to heaven;
  • There is no consensus as to those who will be excluded from heaven;
  • Belief in heaven does not necessarily lead people to engage in good conduct;
  • If heaven exists, it is a very nice place, although there is no agreement about what would make it nice.
In light of the quality and quantity of disagreement about what is supposedly a unitary concept, one has to wonder whether any of these views constitute knowledge of any sort.

I cannot imagine making any single decision of immense importance where there is such an absence of knowledge upon which to base the decision.

Moreover, the report left me scratching my head as to what benefit there may be in belief in heaven. Some said it was comforting, others said it changed one's behavior (but not necessarily for the good, as illustrated by some of the interviewees), others said it was useful for explaining things to children. Even assuming that the concept is useful for these or other purposes, it would seem strange to adopt a concept that is designed to prevent people from facing reality.

Walters asked some hard questions, but they weren't too hard. She could have been more pointed while still being polite. Some Buddhists hold that those who are born deformed deserved it. Some Christians, if pressed, will say that every person who does not believe as they do will be condemned to hell, without exception, and tough titty for them.

The killjoys, of course, are the atheists. They were the ones who were most seriously challenged about their proof for an absence of heaven, and the response was appropriate: the burden of proof is on the one asserting the existence of heaven to prove it. No one else seemed to be seriously challenged about proof. Faith was deemed just as valid as knowledge.

Skeptical voices such as that of Susan Blackmore were more palatable, but no one wants to hear that heavenly experiences have a physiological explanation.
 
Someone's going to need to convince me of the existance of the soul before I start getting real concerned about what happens to it after I die.
 
Unrep said:
Someone's going to need to convince me of the existance of the soul before I start getting real concerned about what happens to it after I die.
Cripes, you're one of these people that piles the precursors one atop the other. We can't just wonder if there is heaven, oh no. First we have to wonder if there is god. And before that we have to wonder whether there is any soul to go to heaven. Next thing you'll know, we'll have to wonder whether there is any chi to form the soul.

It's precursors all the way down.

~~ Paul
 
I thought everyone knew what heaven was like?

You reach it through some gates once St Peter checks your name is on the listl. You live on a cloud, you have your own angel as a concierge, they got wireless broadband, you can eat as much as you want and never get diabetes or heart disease, Sylvia Browne calls once a week, it's ace....
 
Cripes, you're one of these people that piles the precursors one atop the other. We can't just wonder if there is heaven, oh no. First we have to wonder if there is god. And before that we have to wonder whether there is any soul to go to heaven. Next thing you'll know, we'll have to wonder whether there is any chi to form the soul.

It's precursors all the way down.

~~ Paul

Hah! You put an interesting spin on my position since I actually considered it a minimalist position. In a nutshell, if there's no soul, then it doesn't matter if there's a god and thus all the other post death considerations don't matter as well. I do agree with your point that if one believes in the existance of as soul it requires terminal loop of questioning, but I think if there's no soul it nips the loop in the bud.
 
"Heaven is exactly like where you are right now, only much, much better."
- Laurie Anderson
 
It is a place where you never have to work, you can sleep as long as you want at any time of the day, there is always enough to eat and your every need is attended to.

Which of course means, my cat is in heaven now.
 
It is a place where you never have to work, you can sleep as long as you want at any time of the day, there is always enough to eat and your every need is attended to.

Which of course means, my cat is in heaven now.

I hate to be flippant, but one of the reasons I'm an atheist is that it's hard for me to believe that I might deserve or reject eternal reward or punishment when my cats, especially Hatshepsut who died in April, would just cease to exist since she had to endure being a stray, then me not scooping her litter box often enough and smacking her around when she puked up her lunch since it was whatever made her do that that killed her.

And tonight Scarlett is being an attention whore while I ignore her while I type on the computer...

I'm sorry but no case can be made for a soul for humans while claiming that Chimps, Dolphins, Cats, etc. don't have one.
 
Unrep said:
Hah! You put an interesting spin on my position since I actually considered it a minimalist position. In a nutshell, if there's no soul, then it doesn't matter if there's a god and thus all the other post death considerations don't matter as well. I do agree with your point that if one believes in the existance of as soul it requires terminal loop of questioning, but I think if there's no soul it nips the loop in the bud.
But to determine whether there is a soul, which is obviously a requirement for believing in it,* one has to ask the chi question. It's always precursors!

~~ Paul

* That's obvious, right?
 
In light of the quality and quantity of disagreement about what is supposedly a unitary concept, one has to wonder whether any of these views constitute knowledge of any sort.

I think this is a lot of the point. If there is no real clear definition of what heaven is, and everyone can create their own concept of it, then they are less likely to disbelieve it. Whatever heaven is, it agrees with their concept of it, and they can dismiss anyone elses concepts that contradict.

It's a lot easier to sell a product if you can convince everyone that it is exactly what they want. So, when it comes to heaven, better to be vague, and leave the details up to the reader.

Of course, most readers won't think of the hard details, such as, how can one be happy in heaven knowing their loved ones are going to be tortured in hell for eternity? Does heaven make you uncaring? Do you not love your loved ones anymore?
 
For heaven's sake! Is it possible their might be more than one? a combination of the here and now, and what "might be" if everyone had good intent and actally cared about others (science, truth, "good" culture, people, plants trees, rocks animals) "the force" etc...? U never know!
 
Do they teach evolution in heaven? 'cause if not it doesn't sound like my kind of place.
-R
 
I just unwrapped an early Christmas gift - a DVD of Solyaris.

The implication is that the ocean created a sort of botched heaven for Kelvin, because it didn't understand what he actually wanted. So he was stuck in a sort of bad dream, possibly forever.
 

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