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Virgin Birth May be More Common Than Believed

SteveGrenard

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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&sid=apLYpeppu8ag&refer=canada


Komodo Dragons, World's Largest Lizards, Have Virgin Births
By Alex Morales

Dec. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Komodo dragons, the world's largest lizards, are capable of virgin births, scientists said after two female specimens laid fertile eggs without mating.

The production of offspring without fertilization by a male, known as parthenogenesis, has been observed before in about 70 vertebrates -- or 0.1 percent of known species -- though never in one as large as a komodo dragon, which can grow up to 3 meters (10 feet) in length and weigh 100 kilograms (220 pounds).

``It's a complete surprise; no one had suspected it before,'' Richard Gibson, one of the paper's co-authors, said in a telephone interview from London Zoo, where one of the females laid her eggs.
``This has ramifications for the natural history of the species in the wild, and its capacity to perpetuate.''

Virgin births have been recorded previously in species of fish, reptiles and amphibians, as well as a turkey, though recorded instances are usually one-offs, according to Gibson.

The discovery of parthenogenesis in two Komodo dragons suggests the phenomenon is more common, he said.

"Not only is it happening in a rare and new species that's also the world's largest lizard, it's happening in two separate, unrelated individuals in different zoos,'' Gibson, curator of amphibians and reptiles at the Zoological Society of London, said. ``That suggests parthenogenesis isn't so rare or unusual as we all thought.''

`Immaculate Conception'

A komodo called Flora in May laid 25 eggs at Chester Zoo, northern England, according to the paper. She had been bred in captivity, and never kept with a male. Eleven of the eggs were viable, and three of those collapsed during incubation, providing material for genetic testing, which also confirmed they were the product of a sole parent, according to the paper. The remaining eggs are due to hatch next month.

"Essentially what we have here is an immaculate conception,'' Kevin Buley, a curator at Chester Zoo and co-author of the paper, said in a statement on Nature's Web site.

A final discovery made by the scientists was that once females have reproduced asexually, they are able to switch back to normal sexual reproduction with males. After her parthenogenetic eggs, Sungai mated with London Zoo's male, Raja, producing a batch of normal eggs before she died in March.

``Inbreeding carries an associated risk of reduced fitness and an increased probability of extinction,'' the paper said. Still, ``parthenogenesis in wild komodo dragons could be adaptive, given that viable offspring are always male and that sexual reproduction can resume, albeit between related individuals, in a colony founded by a single unfertilized female.''
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December 21, 2006
Wise men testify to dragon's virgin birth

MARK HENDERSON, SCIENCE EDITOR·

Female Komodo doesn't need a mate · Scientists say it is truly immaculate


A clutch of four Komodo dragons that hatched at London Zoo this year were all the result of virgin births, according to research that could help scientific efforts to protect the world’s largest lizards. Genetic tests conducted at the University of Liverpool have proved that all four born to a female called Sungai were conceived by parthenogenesis, a form of asexual reproduction that is known to take place in lizards but never documented in this species before.
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2513322,00.html
 
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Turkeys and some snakes are parthenogenic, just like Mary.
Merry x y chromosome x mas.
 
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Virgin birth != immaculate conception...

Virgin birth describes the situation around Jesus' coming into existence.
Immaculate conception, Mary's.

Drives me spare when people get those confused!
 
They're related close enough that it doesn't really matter.
Immaculate conception menas conception without intercourse.
Virgin birth means birth without intercourse.
I don't see your problems with the words as used.
 
quixotecoyote said:
They're related close enough that it doesn't really matter.
Immaculate conception menas conception without intercourse.
Virgin birth means birth without intercourse.
I don't see your problems with the words as used.
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I'll disagree - the term "immaculate conception" is a religious term, and refers to a rather complex and central doctrine of (especially) the Roman Catholic Church.

It does not mean "conception without intercourse" - it means that whilst Mary's conception came about in the usual manner i.e. her parents had intercourse by the "grace of God" she was spared the "corrupt nature original sin brings". (See: http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp for a longer explanation.)
 
Maybe this is what Da Vinci was trying to convey when he painted a transgender Mary. Well, it's fun speculation if you believe in all of that. :D
 
Biological ignoramus that I am, couldn't a random defect in a womans egg-making process result in an occasional fertile egg? 10's of billions of women having come to menarche on this world, hundreds of billions of eggs. It must have happened once. I'm not saying it has happened as many times as women have claimed...

Hmm, an egg would have to not split into two, and attach itself to a nutrient source. Probably in the ovary? Because the ovary must have some mechanism to prevent it sending the mal-formed egg on it's way? So, ovarian cyst? ectopic pregancy? But every now and then...

And if it happened in a sexually active woman, nobody would ever realise why the baby looks so much like mom, not at all like dad. "She sure takes after her Mom!" I wonder about paternity tests of female children? Would they show fewer matchs to the husband than male children? Children are NOT born at a 50/50 ratio. More females?

Could man-haters take some Kimodo hormone and Waa-La, men are not neccessary? Wh needs in-vitro cloning, with Uterian cloning?
 
Aboriginal natives on Munda
Heard a padre discussing the wunda
Of virginal birth;
They debated its worth
And then tore the poor padre asunda.
 
casebro said:
Biological ignoramus that I am, couldn't a random defect in a womans egg-making process result in an occasional fertile egg? 10's of billions of women having come to menarche on this world, hundreds of billions of eggs. It must have happened once. I'm not saying it has happened as many times as women have claimed...
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Doesn't an egg have only 23 chromosomes (??)
Wouldn't you still need another 23 to make up a complete "set" (??)
Even if it did happen wouldn't it be a clone (??)

I'm no expert - maybe someone out there can answer these questions

Being brought as a catholic I did hear this as a plausible reason for the virgin birth. I also read the the sect that Mary and Joseph were a part of, did not reconigise sex outside marriage - making any children born out side wedlock as virgin births
 
Normal cell division is Mitosis, where each cell gets the full number of chromosomes.

Eggs are created due to Meiosis, a cell dividing where each new cell gets half of the Chromosomes. One half of each of the pairs normally in Mitosis.

I'm not a biologist or anything, but at a guess, it seems like it might be possible for a mistake to happen where an egg is created via Mitosis, getting all the chromosomes and gestating as if it's been fertilized.
 
I thought everyone knew that virgin birth was possible.

My parents had 6 kids and I'm sure they never had sex.
 
A few Kimodo dragons cloning themselves is possibly a bad sign for the species. Exclusively asexually reproducing complex life gets remarked on because it's rare and it's rare because it almost always fails. Bacteria and viruses come along sooner or later to enforce their "evolve or die" policy.

It's a hazard for many species that asexually reproducing females might appear, outbreed the sexually reproducing males and females and then the evolutionarily stagnant asexually reproducing females which now make up all of the species get wiped out by, say, a new version of the common cold which sexually reproducing members of the species would have got over easily. The entire species is then extinct. Oops.

A couple of cloning Kimodos could be quite destructive for the species, longterm.
 
Komodo dragons do not clone themselves, they produce males. Then, she can sexually reproduce with her sons.
 
A Komodo dragon would seem like an animal that could use such an adaptation.
dragon2.jpg


If that's true about these creatures impregnating themselves so they can mate with their offspring, I'm betting intelligent design proponents are willing to chalk this one up to random chance.
 
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