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Rectal Bacteria

DavidS said:
Well, AREN'T we all born with pneumonia?

Some medical professional correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't pneumonia the condition of having excess liquid in the lungs, not the infection nor disease that induces that condition?
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No. Pneumonia is an infection in the lung.

Linda
 
fls said:
No. Pneumonia is an infection in the lung.
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I stand corrected. That's within a letter or two of verbatim quote of the NYU Medical Center web page definition (which I've now been motivated to find).

I appeal to the excuse that the term does seem to be applied casually so it wasn't too unreasonable for me to mistake which use was erroneous, e.g.:

From Wikipedia (admittedly not an authoritative source):
Pneumonia is an illness of the lungs and respiratory system in which the alveoli (microscopic air-filled sacs of the lung responsible for absorbing oxygen from the atmosphere) become inflamed and flooded with fluid. Pneumonia can result from a variety of causes, including infection with bacteria, viruses, fungi, or parasites. Pneumonia may also occur from chemical or physical injury to the lungs, or indirectly due to another medical illness, such as lung cancer or alcohol abuse.
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The American Lung Association page corresponds to my misunderstanding (italics mine):
Pneumonia is an inflammation of the lung caused by infection with bacteria, viruses, and other organisms... Pneumonia is mainly caused by viruses, bacteria and other organisms. Pneumonia can also be caused by the inhalation of food, liquid, gases or dust.
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I can get over being wrong. After all, it's not as novel an experience as I might wish.
 
The fluid in fetal respiration doesn't normally cause inflammation. So while pneumonia doesn't have to be from an infection, it does have to be a pathological process. But babies still don't retain pulmonary fluid normally. If they did they couldn't breathe very well.
 
skeptigirl said:
The fluid in fetal respiration doesn't normally cause inflammation. So while pneumonia doesn't have to be from an infection, it does have to be a pathological process. But babies still don't retain pulmonary fluid normally. If they did they couldn't breathe very well.
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but could it be considered pulmunary edema?
 
joobz said:
but could it be considered pulmunary edema?
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Pulmonary edema includes inflammation. The fluid is within the tissues rather than in the air spaces. It can be very bad as well. It's usually a symptom the heart and/or kidneys are not handling the fluid load in the bloodstream.
 
There is a condition called TTN or transient tachypnea of the newborn. My son was born with it though I had none of the risk factors. I had a 56 hour labor and I think the nurses let an IV run wide open unchecked right near delivery. I think they overloaded him plus the labor was well...labored. The doc of course denied it but I saw them when they noticed the IV and the looks of 'oops' were there. But he survived it and these things happen.

Again, it was a pathological condition, not a normal one.
 
DavidS said:
The American Lung Association page corresponds to my misunderstanding (italics mine):

Quote:
Pneumonia is an inflammation of the lung caused by infection with bacteria, viruses, and other organisms... Pneumonia is mainly caused by viruses, bacteria and other organisms. Pneumonia can also be caused by the inhalation of food, liquid, gases or dust.

I can get over being wrong. After all, it's not as novel an experience as I might wish.
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Well, you're in good company. :)

The American Lung Association is not really correct. Inflammation of the lung that is not from infection is more properly termed "pneumonitis".

Linda
 
skeptigirl said:
Pulmonary edema includes inflammation. The fluid is within the tissues rather than in the air spaces. It can be very bad as well. It's usually a symptom the heart and/or kidneys are not handling the fluid load in the bloodstream.
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Thanks for the info!
 
Does anyone else find it a wee bit disturbing that a thread talking about "Rectal Bacteria" is on the subject of Lung infections?
 
Well this little exercise caused me to review the terms and think about the conditions a bit more carefully.

Pneumonia is almost exclusively used to indicate infection.

Aseptic pneumonia is used but fls is correct that pneumonitis is the more commonly used term when there is inflammation without infection.

But, pneumonia isn't merely "fluid in the lungs" and I should have thought more carefully about what was being said before replying. The X-ray changes in pneumonia reflect what is called "consolidation". If it were simply liquid in the lung where air should be, you could literally turn the person upside down and drain it out.

The lungs are like sacks of sponges. And just as with a sponge, you could fill them with fluid or you could allow gravity to act and a large amount of the fluid would eventually run out. Thus, if there was only fluid in the lung, it could be drained and that isn't the case. Instead you have a combination of fluid, inflammation (swelling), mucus, pus and sometimes collapsed alveoli. The air sacs are no longer full of air.

However, there are several organisms (like SARS) and certain conditions which can be caused by any serious infection (ARDS in the first stage) where the fluid leaking from the bloodstream and lymph system into the lungs is so voluminous, one cannot keep the lungs drained and the air sacs indeed fill with fluid. The other components of consolidation are there, but there is a lot of 'liquid' in the air sacs as well.
 
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