Slimething
Illuminator
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 3,790
But I do think you've oversimplified the matter by suggesting that dann remove poverty from the discussion as a key factor.
Nah. All I said was that dann was trying to claim moral superiority and that granting that would be sheer folly. Obviously, the economics of the situation belong in a more holistic discussion of the problem but that's not what dann said. Note the title of the thread: "time for skeptics to grow up?" Also note the underlying message that skeptics should not talk about woo crap if the woo crap is part of a larger problem. (Like, what isn't?)
Your indication that dann is taking moral high ground feels paranoid. I don't see that he does.
Your problem, not mine. If you can psychoanalyze people from what they write in a few lines on the web, perhaps phone psychiatry is next for you. Lotsa money in it!
I apologise for the use of my colloquial 'mate', as it seems to have upset you.
Overly familiar and too soon.
Discussing the fact that labelling kids as witches is detrimental is fine, however to dismiss the influence of poverty is narrow minded.
No, it just signals a narrower discussion than you and dann are willing to let the rest of us have. Why don't we consider the weather in this as well? (Bad weather leads to poor crops, leading to famine.) How about the interplay of religions in the area. (Perhaps the witchcraft thing is a natural reaction by a sect reacting badly to an encroaching sect that does not believe in witches.) It could go on and on.
The issue is more complex than being just about superstition; it's also about the reasons superstitious belief exists in such communities in the first place.
[sarcasm on]Really? I thought these things just popped out of nowhere!
I'm at a loss to see where 'moral outrage' comes into it. The fact that skepticism often over simplifies the issue is not a moral judgement, but a practical one.
The moral outrage aspect is what dann is trying to do to the discussion about the burgeoning prepubescent witch population in the Congo. All in all, I see that you've distilled our disagreement to the ageless conflict between holism and reductionism. If so, relax. Reductionism won a long time ago.
Well, your juvenile approach is noted. What was that you were saying about discussing this without emotion? Hmm...
Thanks. I usually get juvenile when told I can't talk about something because I'm not a good enough human being.
I've got quite a bit of experience in education in different parts of the world, including in impoverished, collectivist communities of remote Australia. So I am speaking from a position of experience and expertise, and not just of speculative opinion. And what I described as education is what often happened in the past; government and private (often missionary) imposed education programs often failed to make an impact as a direct result of a rejection by the community.
Merely because it happened in the past does not mean I'm going to swallow the shallow and false description of education you posted earlier. That is why I says to myself, I says. "thing, dis guy don't know wat edjicashun is awl about, he don't!" But, as always, you respond to tell me that what you wrote is not what you meant. So be it.
Athon, you go ahead and worry about the what the water buffalo is thinking. The statement in the JREF was that people who label kids as witches are ignorant fools and I fully back it. It matters not whether they're poor or rich. If you and dann want to say it's OK for adults to do this to kids because they're starving, that's your prerogative. Don't expect me to agree with you. And don't expect me to be apologetic about it either.
End of discussion. Go join your friend who likes to argue via smilies.