Bumper sticker. . .(shudder)

[Darth Rotor]

Yeah, did I miss something or are there two Herods? There's the one that died in 4 BC (which is how they date Christ's birth) and the one who mocks Jesus as he's about to be sent to be crucified. I never heard of Herod I and II or anything like that.

There were two. The first one had quite the rep as a builder and an innovater. There is somewhere on the web a neat (Dicovery?) piece on Herod the Builder's works in Caeseria, and Massada.

Go to this page and look for "Herod: Builder King."

His son, Herod Antippas, wasn't quite the man his dad was, what with his silly songs sung to Messianic prophets.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

Source.

Ossai

Do you understand the word speculation? I can speculate, as can anyone else, without a source. But funnily enough, others beyond me have as well.

Ever heard of a Flood? Ever read a book? I read a lot of books before the Internet, and endless September, happened. One of the many I read on Amerind legends covered the story of the great flood that covered the world. Another told the legend of Quetzacoatl. I also read Erich von Däniken. (There's some fine escapist reading.)

I am also familiar with the writings of Joseph Campbell. Fascinating stuff.

Is your academic background restricted to wiki, or is this another of your standard "attack from ignorance" moments?

DR

 

[Ossai]

Mr Clingford

I do not understand - are you calling me a liar? I say that some Christians believe Jesus did not die to appease any angry God and then you say that he did.

Nope, I’m saying scripture disagrees with you.
The core of the Christ cult is summed up in the kerygma
1 Corinthians 15:3-5 (New International version)
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve.

1 Corinthians 15:3-5 (New American Standard version)
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

Jesus died for human sins, i.e. he was the ultimate sacrifice. Sacrifices were made to appease god. Jesus was therefore sacrificed to appease god.

Darth Rotor

Do you understand the word speculation? I can speculate, as can anyone else, without a source. But funnily enough, others beyond me have as well.

You wrote

This unknown allows for plenty of speculation about where Amerinds got some of their legends that are in such harmony with legends of the Levant.

Important bit bolded. What Native American legends in harmony with the Levant? The question is still valid. Source?

Is your academic background restricted to wiki, or is this another of your standard "attack from ignorance" moments?

Your bigoted Christian viewpoint is very much on display when a simple question can rouse such a response.

Ossai

 

[Mr Clingford]

Mr Clingford
Nope, I’m saying scripture disagrees with you.
The core of the Christ cult is summed up in the kerygma
1 Corinthians 15:3-5 (New International version)
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve.

1 Corinthians 15:3-5 (New American Standard version)
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

Jesus died for human sins, i.e. he was the ultimate sacrifice. Sacrifices were made to appease god. Jesus was therefore sacrificed to appease god.

Now you are saying that Jesus was a sacrifice.

Would you show me in Christianity, Bible verses etc, where sacrifices are made to appease god because it is my understanding that they were not in Christianity.

 

[Ossai]

Mr Clingford

Would you show me in Christianity, Bible verses etc, where sacrifices are made to appease god because it is my understanding that they were not in Christianity.

Rethink your question.
Prior to Jesus, Jewish people sacrificed animals to god so that god would forgive their sins, (close enough unless you want to go hunting through rabital sources). Jesus came along as the last/best/pure/ultimate sacrifice so that Christians no longer required animal sacrifices.

To get back to sources you need to define Christianity (at least as you understand it) and what biblical books are important. Do you include the Torah (OT) or are you going completely by the New Testament. If you toss out the OT then the whole Jewish Messiah bit is completely irrelevant as are all the prophecies that the messiah was supposed to fulfill. The rules for Jewish sacrifice are laid out in the OT (I’ll have to get specific chapter and verse when I’ve got a better source available (& time)).

Ossai

 

[Mr Clingford]

I will do a bit of reading myself - time to look at the first few chapters of Leviticus - what fun .

 

[The Atheist]

I will do a bit of reading myself - time to look at the first few chapters of Leviticus - what fun .

I smell danger! Stay away from that book!

If you start believing the bible, you're doomed. Stick to Episcopalia.


why isn't my gif working? Will try to edit....

 

[Darth Rotor]

Darth Rotor
Your bigoted Christian viewpoint is very much on display when a simple question can rouse such a response.

Ossai

My only bigotry, which predates my Faith, is not to suffer fools gladly. Still working on the "other cheek" deal. The endless September didn't help that at all.

You are a well known jackanape on this forum, with an abrasive tone and limited wit. Tricky, Randfan, and the Atheist, among others, never evoke my scorn, yet we disagree on the same premises frequently.

Why is that? Due to me being Christian? Not hardly, it is due to you being an empty, arrogant prick, and them being people engaged in a dialogue, and exchange of ideas. You think there is something to win on an internet forum. Wise fool. I am laughing at you, not with you, sport.

I make a comment on speculation and legend, and your terse comment is "source." You attack, as usual, from ignorance, and pretend that you have a clue. When you understand that I value synthesis as much as, and at times more than, analysis, you'll perhaps have a hope of raising yourself to a level where you and I can have a conversation. As it stands now, you choose to dwell in the gutter of the anal end of analysis.

Yet you want to throw rocks at me, Mister Ossai who "posts with a chip on his shoulder about Christianity?" Roadtoad doesn't, and he's walked the walk.

I've read a few hundred of your posts. You are all flash, no boom. I'd find that in you regardless of my Faith. I've been smelling bull____ like yours since back in the long years of my agnosticism.

Here's a nickel, boy, buy a clue.

DR

Please keep in mind your membership agreement concerning civility toward others. Thank you.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer

 

[Paulhoff]

One of the many I read on Amerind legends covered the story of the great flood that covered the world.

Nice story, where is the evidence, unless stories are good enough you.

Paul

 

[Darth Rotor]

Nice story, where is the evidence, unless stories are good enough you.

Paul

The evidence in the Western Hemisphere of alluvial floods is a matter of some discussion, and disagreement. The accounts of big floods among the Amerinds was IIRC covered by Campbell. His literature on heroic archetypes I am more familiar with. I don't remember the name of the Amerind Myth anthology I read (some 30 years ago) where my exposure to that oral tradition derives.

We began this discussion with a hypothetical on "what did that guy do for 28 (or more likely 18) year?" So, using the word "speculation" and a sense of humor, which seemed not to register on you, I drew on some legends that come to us from the Western Hemisphere's aboriginal peoples.

And that is about as far as that can go, since the matter is indeed, "unknown."

What about the word "speculation" did not register?

DR

 

[Paulhoff]

What about the word "speculation" did not register?

Well seeing that you buy into the Jesus thing, your speculation has nothing to do with how I speculate. And seeing that not once have I seen and or heard of any scientific paper on this flood that has passed any peer review, I give it no weight at all outside of a bedtime story.

Paul

 

[Darth Rotor]

Well seeing that you buy into the Jesus thing, your speculation has nothing to do with how I speculate. And seeing that not once have I seen and or heard of any scientific paper on this flood that has passed any peer review, I give it no weight at all outside of a bedtime story.

Paul

Paul, set your lens on wide angle. Go back to where did this post diverged. All I have ever seen on the amerind flood stories, and on Quetzacoatl, are the results of oral tradition and material in books on those topics. All anyone has seen on what Jesus did for the unknown years is "unknown." So, some speculation begins. I don't know what you read into any of my posts, but I take no position on the geological debate, and the archeological debate, on alluvial floods, flood traditions among the Amerinds, nor if Jesus flew First Class or Coach on his flight on Moses Air Lines in the year 15 CE on the proposed (with, once again, a sense of humor involved here) as he travelled to America to check out the turf. Your pigeon holing is showing. People are more complicated than an If - Then statement.

What did Jesus do for "the unknown years?" Well, since it is unknown, then why not speculate? It's fun.

Actually, I do have a position on some of the arguments being made on the hypothesis of a Global Biblical Flood: I think the ICR are making a poor case.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

Please keep in mind your membership agreement concerning civility toward others. Thank you.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer

[/QUOTE]
For you and Ossai:

Since the insult was public, so shall be the apology. From the PM's between myself and Ossai:

Ossai I went back to the post, and I can see that as your intent. So, me being in a combative mood, I decided to flame you. I'll accept as true what you have told me, and I apologize for reading into your post a malice that wasn't there. My bad.

DR

 

[RandFan]

Okay, I'm just waiting for RandFan to answer this, at least as far as North America is concerned...

I'm not a spoksman.

To tell you the truth though, I always wanted to know why Jesus didn't go visit the Chinese. Who knows. Maybe he did, can you prove he didn't?

 

[Paulhoff]

Yea, China is not in the bible.

Paul

 

[Darth Rotor]

I'm not a spoksman.

To tell you the truth though, I always wanted to know why Jesus didn't go visit the Chinese. Who knows. Maybe he did, can you prove he didn't?

Well if he did, during those elusive unknown years, perhaps that would explain the occasionally discussed Eastern influence of his philosophical tenets.

DR

 

[RandFan]

Lot of differences in the way they are used though. Pervese and perverted are both adjectives which have overlapping meanings, but "perverse" is more often used to refer to someone who has odd reasoning or motives, and "perverted" usually has sexual overtones.

Meh... with me everything is sexual. I have a pornographic memory as well as a memory for mammaries which is kinda redundant, hmmm.... mmmm... in any event I think you have to consider the context and in this context I'm a pervert so "perverse" is sexual to me. Any problems? BTW, what are you wearing?

 

[The Atheist]

Well if he did, during those elusive unknown years, perhaps that would explain the occasionally discussed Eastern influence of his philosophical tenets.

DR

Egad!

Don't you know anything? He spent the missing years in NZ - Rotorua to be precise:

 

[Paulhoff]

Well if he did, during those elusive unknown years, perhaps that would explain the occasionally discussed Eastern influence of his philosophical tenets.

That Eastern influence would be India.

Paul



So-called Brahman makes a hell of a lot more sense then the so-called christain god.

 

[Huntster]

The evidence in the Western Hemisphere of alluvial floods is a matter of some discussion, and disagreement. ....

It's amazing how some who claim to be "scientific" will pooh-pooh ancient and aboriginal flood stories, then turn around and (with a straight face) tell us all about Beringia, how it occurred repeatedly, and in their incredible intelligence, they just can't get the clue.