Some simple Tower 7 questions

[Pardalis]

So don't claim they all agree with you. It's presumptuous to speak for all of them

First of all they don't know me, and if they did they wouldn't care about my opinion.

Second, you missed my point.

Most scientists don't want to engage conspiracy theorists and other woos because they:

-are a waste of time
-can't be reasoned with
-don't use and don't understand the scientific method
-are a joke

And most importantly, giving them any attention or voice would give them publicity, therefore some kind of legitimacy.

 

[maccy]

So don't claim they all agree with you. It's presumptuous to speak for all of them

If nobody with suitable expertise challenges the generally accepted view of the collapse then that view won't change. Unless the "truth" movement persuades scientists and other experts to challenge the science of 9/11 it will continue to be accepted and the sum of your ambitions will be fooling people who don't know better. You're not going to change the world that way.

Where's your campaign to persuade architects, structural engineers, fire engineers and demolition experts that your hunches about the collapses are correct? There are universities and companies, with these people in them, all over the world - not just in the US. Where is the campaign to submit papers to established peer-reviewed journals in relevant areas? Where is your campaign to persuade even a single science editor of a newspaper or a TV station (in the whole world) that you have a case?

If no relevant expert speaks out and persuades their peers, the consensus will not change.

The fact that so many are silent most likely means they agree with NIST or, perhaps, that they don't care. The idea that an international academic community of thousands could be threatened or bought off is laughable.

 

[apathoid]

Pardalis that's a bit of a stretch. Every scientist in the world hasn't given their opinion. In fact they shy away from doing so.

Please explain the bolded part.....

You're in denial, my friend. Complete and total denial. I dont think it's hit you yet that every scientist and engineer in the entire world is fully aware of the circumstances surrounding 9/11. We arent talking about some obscure event the few people know about, we are talking about something that nearly the entire world witnessed with their own two eyes. If there was such obvious foul play involving violations of physics and impossible collapses - dont you think that more experts, who have nothing to lose by coming forward, might start questioning the Official Story? In fact, if CD is as obvious as you people say - shouldnt entire professions, 129,000 members of the ASCE for example, start coming forward??

You see, take the the Scholars for Truth, for example. Now, if what the Truth movement alleges is correct about a controlled demolition, why doesnt the group have any demo experts who might be able to put in writing how the CD was planned and executed. What about Architects and Civil/Fire/Structural Engineers who might be able put in writing how a top down collapse was impossible.

Wizard, doesn't it ring a few alarm bells that this worldwide organization of "Scholars" have precisely ZERO Civil Engineers, Fire Engineers, Structural Engineers, Archtiects or Demolitions experts in their panel? Please answer honestly.

 

[maccy]

This pile looks pretty neat

http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/wtc7pile.jpg

How is your opinion of the neatness of a rubble pile evidence?

But don't let me stop you hawking that picture and opinion around University Engineering Departments, or Architects Offices, or Demolition Offices or an assortment of science journalists.

Let me know how you get on...





...and if you learn anything.

 

[Wizard]

Please explain the bolded part.....

You're in denial, my friend. Complete and total denial. I dont think it's hit you yet that every scientist and engineer in the entire world is fully aware of the circumstances surrounding 9/11. We arent talking about some obscure event the few people know about, we are talking about something that nearly the entire world witnessed with their own two eyes. If there was such obvious foul play involving violations of physics and impossible collapses - dont you think that more experts, who have nothing to lose by coming forward, might start questioning the Official Story? In fact, if CD is as obvious as you people say - shouldnt entire professions, 129,000 members of the ASCE for example, start coming forward??

You see, take the the Scholars for Truth, for example. Now, if what the Truth movement alleges is correct about a controlled demolition, why doesnt the group have any demo experts who might be able to put in writing how the CD was planned and executed. What about Architects and Civil/Fire/Structural Engineers who might be able put in writing how a top down collapse was impossible.

Wizard, doesn't it ring a few alarm bells that this worldwide organization of "Scholars" have precisely ZERO Civil Engineers, Fire Engineers, Structural Engineers, Archtiects or Demolitions experts in their panel? Please answer honestly.

They have:

Ted Elden who is an architect.

Jack Keller who is a Civil Engineer.

Joseph M Phelps who is a Civil Engineer

Doyle Winterton who is a Civil Engineer.

Plus numerous Phd Physicists and Mathematicions so the bolded statement above is totally false.

 

[~enigma~]

They have:

Ted Elden who is an architect.

Jack Keller who is a Civil Engineer.

Joseph M Phelps who is a Civil Engineer

Doyle Winterton who is a Civil Engineer.

Plus numerous Phd Physicists and Mathematicions so the bolded statement above is totally false.

Care to list the birthdates, location and current occupation of the four people you named. Also list their academic acheivements, awards and any published papers. I would appreciate it for the entire list of full members but those four will do.

 

[Wizard]

Care to list the birthdates, location and current occupation of the four people you named. Also list their academic acheivements, awards and any published papers. I would appreciate it for the entire list of full members but those four will do.

Those details are not required. That is their professions.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Ted Elden (FM)
Architect, Communicator

what the hell is a comminicator?

Jack Keller (FM)
Civil Engineering, Irrigation Engineering, Agricultural Engineering

experience in civil engineering...not necessarily a civil engineer, for all we know he could be a student (wouldnt be the first time the scholars did this)

Joseph M. Phelps (FM)
MS, PE. Structural Dynamicist (ret.), Charter Member, Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers

a retired structural dynamacist, i have no clue what that is so i cant comment

Doyle Winterton (FM)
BES degree. Civil Engineering, Structural Engineering with Brown Associates (ret.)

a bachelors, but we dont know in what, apparently civil and structural experience with brown associates (but hes retired, seems alot of the scholars are out of the business)

i find several "brown associates" from development and planning to architects to landscaping, i have no clue which one he worked for


not that any of this matters much, we know the "scholars" dont check the qualifications of thier members, or care whether they are lying, how long has this guy been on there?

Jage Knepp (SM)
Chemistry, Sociology, Stockholm University

 

[apathoid]

what the hell is a comminicator?


experience in civil engineering...not necessarily a civil engineer, for all we know he could be a student (wouldnt be the first time the scholars did this)


a retired structural dynamacist, i have no clue what that is so i cant comment


a bachelors, but we dont know in what, apparently civil and structural experience with brown associates (but hes retired, seems alot of the scholars are out of the business)

i find several "brown associates" from development and planning to architects to landscaping, i have no clue which one he worked for


not that any of this matters much, we know the "scholars" dont check the qualifications of thier members, or care whether they are lying, how long has this guy been on there?

Ah yes, good ole Jage Knepp!

 

[~enigma~]

Those details are not required. That is their professions.

The details are not required to you but they are an important point to me and I am sure to alot of people here. Just provide them because without their details how should we trust their opinions or evidence they could present.

 

[apathoid]

They have:

Ted Elden who is an architect.

Jack Keller who is a Civil Engineer.

Joseph M Phelps who is a Civil Engineer

Doyle Winterton who is a Civil Engineer.

Plus numerous Phd Physicists and Mathematicions so the bolded statement above is totally false.

Wow, I'm impressed. Can you direct to some of these folks writings on the collpases? Thanks!
BTW, you missed the point of my post.

 

[Wizard]

Wow, I'm impressed. Can you direct to some of these folks writings on the collpases? Thanks!
BTW, you missed the point of my post.

You are moving the goalpoasts now. You claimed in three feet tall letters that ZERO civil engineers or architects were even a member of scholars. I proved that false.

I have not claimed they have written about 9/11.


With regard to Phelps, here is proof that he is indeed a registered professional civil engineer

http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=7964&P_LTE_ID=741

 

[defaultdotxbe]

You are moving the goalpoasts now. You claimed in three feet tall letters that ZERO civil engineers or architects were even a member of scholars. I proved that false.

I have not claimed they have written about 9/11.


With regard to Phelps, here is proof that he is indeed a registered professional civil engineer

http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=7964&P_LTE_ID=741

so you have one civil engineer and one architect (who apparently is also a communicater...whatever that means)

considering kellers other areas of expertise i dont think he knows too much about skyscrapers

 

[Wizard]

The details are not required to you but they are an important point to me and I am sure to alot of people here. Just provide them because without their details how should we trust their opinions or evidence they could present.

I didn't ask you to trust them. I was just proving Apathoid wrong.

Could I see the credentials and work of all the engineers you say dont support the CT?

 

[Pardalis]

(who apparently is also a communicater...whatever that means)

 

[defaultdotxbe]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/888645810cd5824d4.jpg

so he makes that cool noise...awesome!

 

[maccy]

They have:

Ted Elden who is an architect.

Seems to specialise in low-rise buildings and renovation work and damage assesment.

http://www.archiplanet.org/wiki/Elden_Architects,_Charleston,_West_Virginia,_USA
http://www.architectureweek.com/directory/firms.cgi?19571

His website is mainly concerned with his photography business

http://www.abodia.com/

Architecture seems to be pretty much a sideline.

His photography page biographical notes reveal him to be on the fringes of scientific thought:

He lectures to Civic Clubs, students & public on a plethora of subjects including but not limited to: 911, language, media, How we Think, computer applications, Stone Henge, free energy, Tesla & much more.

http://www.abodia.com/photography/about_us.htm

And it gets worse, the articles page on his website reveals him to be a holocaust denier, a UFO believer, a moon hoax moonbat and a "freedom to fascism" tax law dodger; to be a chemtrail testifying, child-abuse-sex-slave-mind-control believing, fiendish flouridator fearing, NWO underground city imagining, stone cold moronic deluded moon howling tin-hatted idiot. Yes, a stone cold freaking idiot who says, "the Zionists want your guns," and, "Leo Wanta wantsta giveya a trillion dollars, but the Gnomes of Zurich won't let him."

It's all here folks: http://www.abodia.com/911/Articles/1/index.htm

Scholarly articles in peer-reviewed publications: zero.

NOT a scholar then.

One down, three to go.

Can it get any more embarrassing?

 

[Wizard]

Ok Pardalis on that note I shall retire to bed. Point proved I think anyway.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Can it get any more embarrassing?

well, i think the next guy is a farmer, lol

 

[apathoid]

You are moving the goalpoasts now. You claimed in three feet tall letters that ZERO civil engineers or architects were even a member of scholars. I proved that false.

Sorry about moving the goalposts. I've been watching 28th Kingdom do it all week.

I already knew about Phelps, I have serious doubts about the others you mentioned. Notice how their areas of expertise is always "engineering". For all I know Doyle Winterton couldve been a receptionist at Brown Associates, he doesnt say what his degree is in. Keller and Elden dont even list degrees! Phelps actually is the only entry that appears legit.

So, even if i give you all 4 of these as relevant experts, what about everyone else. Remember:

I dont think it's hit you yet that every scientist and engineer in the entire world is fully aware of the circumstances surrounding 9/11. We arent talking about some obscure event the few people know about, we are talking about something that nearly the entire world witnessed with their own two eyes. If there was such obvious foul play involving violations of physics and impossible collapses - dont you think that more experts, who have nothing to lose by coming forward, might start questioning the Official Story? In fact, if CD is as obvious as you people say - shouldnt entire professions, 129,000 members of the ASCE for example, start coming forward??

Again, if the Towers were so obviously brought down in a controlled demo, and its glaringly obvious that a fire and damage driven collapse was impossible - where are the hundreds of thousands of relevant experts? Why arent they coming forward?