• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Israel, Secret Weapons, Venunu, Suicide Bombers

a_unique_person

Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Messages
49,613
Location
Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
The ABC in Australia, the Public TV station, is running a story on secret gases and weapons used against Palestinians.

So where is the roadmap.

Israel is telling lies about it's fight against the Palestinians. The use of secret weapons, methods, aims and outcomes is undeniable.

Palestinians, for all their brutality, are fighting in the open. They are killing, using their own, against the Israelis.

Questions against Israel are off limits. Questions will not be answered about Israel.

Both Israel and Palestine are committed to a war to the death.

The tragedy, is that the majority of Israeli's and Palestinians are people who want nothing more than you or I, a peaceful life, in which they can watch their children grow.

Why does the madness of the quest for the West Bank continue?

Israel will not commit to the International regulations against WMD. It secretly researches and builds biological weapons, nuclear weapons and chemical weapons. Anyone who speaks out, such as Mordachi Venunu, is silenced, by whatever means it takes.

These weapons, according to this story, are being used today against the Palestinians.

00.33.56 Dr MOHAMMED SALAMA, Director, Palestinian Health Ministry: We asked, what kind of gas? But nobody verified for us the type of gas to give the antidote at that moment. Also we don't know how to check, how to examine, how to send this. We are in occupied area. We are surrounded. It is impossible to send these samples to international lab to test.

00.34.27 Olenka Frenkiel: Israel is outside chemical and biological weapons treaties and still refuses to say what the new gas was.

00.34.44 Olenka Frenkiel: The Eoloffs have still not heard from the prison. Their flight home is tomorrow night and they worry they may have to leave without seeing their adopted son.

00.34.56 Olenka Frenkiel: Today they are having lunch with a small group of activists who for sixteen years have fought in vain for Vanunu's release.

00.35.03 First Israeli activist: They pressurise Iraq about nuclear weapons. What about Israel and nuclear weapons?

00.35.07 Second Israeli activist: Imagine for one moment that Mordechai Vanunu was not an Israeli, that the whole story had happened with a Korean or an Iranian or a Pakistani technician, he would have had the Nobel Peace Prize. He would have been the second Sakharov.

00.35.23 Second Israeli activist: Instead he is a non-person in the West. This tells you what we are dealing with. We're dealing with the number one privileged state on earth.

00.35.34 Third Israeli activist: Counter to the Israeli argument that the whole world is against us, it is the exact opposite. We started the nuclear race in the Middle East. There is no doubt about it.

Israel did start the Middle East Middle East arms race.

It appears it is now using weapons that are classifed as WMD. There has just been another suicide bombing, that has killed many, and injured many.

Will there ever be a point that is reached, in which each side says, enough?

Israel will give up the West Bank, as Ben-Gurion himself advised many years ago, and Palestinians will agree that Israel is here to stay.

http://www.melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2003/08/52602.php
 
Ya, right. Any other fairy tales?

I am not an international scholar but I can tell the difference between sides by who they target. Busloads of shoppers, children, and infants are not legitimate targets. When the Palestinian side starts fighting military to military I will consider the value of each side's arguements. But when weddings and shopping malls are their favorite targets I consider them nothing but craven cowards.
 
At one time I felt the Palestinians were the underdogs and Israel was using uncalled-for force with them. I no longer have any sympathy whatsoever for the Palestinians. Israel can shove them all into the sea for all I care.

Shinytop, welcome to the forum, my reasons are the same as yours.
 
Every so often the Palestinians claim that the Israelis are using poison gas on them. So far, every time, the claim has been proven false.

What makes you think that the Palestinians will be happy with the West Bank when so many official Palestinian maps still look like Israel?

I know, I know, Iraq never had any WMD, but those rotten Israelis are using them daily.
 
(Shrug)

The Palestinians claim a lot of "awful things" israel is supposed to have done. Using "poison gas" is one of their favorites. Other include the claims that israel is using "radioactive weapons"(?), that it developed a special virus that kills only palestians (but not, mysteriously, other Arabs or levant jews), that israeli doctors "inject Palestinian children with the AIDS virus", that israeli agents created chewing gum that makes women sexually aroused in order to "destroy the morals of Arab society", and that the mossad put crocodile eggs in the Nile in order that the hatching crocodiles will eat Arab swimmers.

To give a few other examples, a couple of years back, they claimed that a palestinian whose face was burned when he died in a car crash that happened outside a jewish village, was "really" tortured by the jews having "put hot irons" on his face--the fact that they haven't even KNOWN of the accident until the driver was long dead notwithstanding. Recently, a palestinian "documentary" claims, israeli tanks "destroyed the northen wing" of an hospital in Jenin... the slight problem with the story being that the hospital in question NEVER HAD a "northern wing", destroyed or not. This was, by the way, at the same (after the pitched battle in Jenin) the palestinians brought to Jenin bodies from mourges all over the palestinian territories, in order to claim there was a "massacre".

Without exception, EVERY SINGLE TIME that the rumors of "israeli atrocities" were investigated, they were proven to be a propaganda fabrication. But since you WANT to believe israel is evil, you'd buy anything that says so, no matter how silly the rumor or how suspect the source.
 
Sundog said:
At one time I felt the Palestinians were the underdogs and Israel was using uncalled-for force with them. I no longer have any sympathy whatsoever for the Palestinians. Israel can shove them all into the sea for all I care.

Shinytop, welcome to the forum, my reasons are the same as yours.

Blowing up a bus load of civilians during the "road map" cease fire was a new low for Hamas. Hopefully now the PA itself will go after Hamas...that is if they're serious about peace. :confused:

-z

Watch it Sundog....this is the 4th time in 2 days we've been in agreement. You'll be wearing a neo-con label before long! :D ;)
 
rikzilla said:



Watch it Sundog....this is the 4th time in 2 days we've been in agreement. You'll be wearing a neo-con label before long! :D ;)

My views aren't monolithic. I'm conservative on some things, liberal on others. I don't understand the mental processes of people who have one solution to everything.
 
So where is the roadmap.

Blown up by a sucidie bomber who killed 20 israeli women and children and injured over 100.

Israel is telling lies about it's fight against the Palestinians. The use of secret weapons, methods, aims and outcomes is undeniable.

Actually, it is. Arab propaganda LOVES to claim how israel is using "evil secret methods" to fight, but so far, EVERY TIME this was investigated by non-palestinians sources, it turned out to be a propaganda lie. See my above post for a few of these claims.

As for the reilability of the "palestinian health ministry" in particular, on which you rely for this "evidence", you should know that--inter alia--it was the body that claimed that israel desyoyed the "northern wing" of a palestinian hospital which NEVER HAD a "northern wing", and that it has "evidence" that israeli doctors "inject palestinians children with the AIDS virus".

But noooooooooooooo, they wouldn't LIE, now would they???

Simply put, you cannot believe a word they say about israel. Although, of course, you WOULD, being an antisemite who is quite happy to accept as gospel truth ANY claim about israeli "evil methods", no matter how absurd or how uncredible the source.

Palestinians, for all their brutality, are fighting in the open.

So were the Nazis: both are quite open about their goal of killing all the jews.

How considerate of them, eh? Perhaps Hitler, like Arafat, should be awarded a Nobel Peace prize, for his honestly and openess about his goals for such a long time, starting in 1919 and ending in his last will and testament of 1945.

Questions against Israel are off limits. Questions will not be answered about Israel.

Bulls--t. Questions about israel are answered all the time. It's just that it's hardly israel's responsibilty to refute every kooky conspiracy about it by notorious liars, like the officials of the "palestinian health ministry".

Both Israel and Palestine are committed to a war to the death.

Nonsense. Israel has always agreed to negotiate with the palestinians on the basis of giving them a state for peace, and, in fact, offered them JUST THAT in 2000. The palestinian war of annihilation against them was the reply.

Those who are committed to killing all the jews are the palestinians, but not vice versa. Israel is only "committed to a war to the death" in the same sense that a man engaged in a life-and-death struggle against a murderer who attacked him on the street and is trying to kill him is.

The tragedy, is that the majority of Israeli's and Palestinians are people who want nothing more than you or I, a peaceful life, in which they can watch their children grow.

Not true. Ever watched the palestinian version of "sesame street"? It featured a five-year-old explaining to his classmates how his goal in life is to be a shahid (suicide bomber). Ever saw a palestinian summer camp? They are all named after suicide bombers. Remember the film released by the Hamas of the mother of a suicide bomber blessing him on his way and asking him to kill many jews on his mission?

The israelies want their children to grow up. The palestinians want their children to suicide while killing jews. That's the problem in a nutshell, really: civilization against savagery.

Why does the madness of the quest for the West Bank continue?

Because the palestinians declared a war of annihilation against the jews, and the jews are too soft-hearted to treat them like any other nation would have done to such an enemy long ago.

How long, do you suppose, California would have remained on the map if it had declared war against the rest of the US and sent an unending string of suicide bombers to blow up targets from Seattle to Washington? How many Aboriginies would have remained in Australia if they decided to start a war of terror against the european "occupation"?

Israel will not commit to the International regulations against WMD.

Boo ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ hoo.

It secretly researches and builds biological weapons, nuclear weapons and chemical weapons. Anyone who speaks out, such as Mordachi Venunu, is silenced, by whatever means it takes.

Indeed so. Shockingly enough, israel has some military secrets (a necessity considering the fact that it is facing the constant threat of genoicde by its Arab neighbors, of course), so if someone tried to disclosed them they are tried for treason. This is acting EXACTLY the same way any nation does. The US and Australia, for example, also have military secrets, and put in jail those who illegally advertise those secrets. What's your problem?

Oh wait, I know what your problem is. israel, by daring to have some things as military secrets, is NOT "fighting completely in the open"! Ohmigod!!! How awful! I keep forgetting, of course, that every nation on earth has the right to have military secrets and protect them by punishing those who disclose them... EXCEPT for the jewish state.

It, alone, must fight against a genocidal, savage enemy "completely in the open", or else accept that its fate, for having "illegal" military secrets, is to be constantly denounced all the antisemitic hypocrites in the world--the same people whose own governments, of course, have just as many military secrets, and treat traitors just as severly, as israel does.

You know something? That's not a hard choice. Somehow, I prefer israel to have those secrets even if the likes of you express "shock" and "moral outrage".

These weapons, according to this story, are being used today against the Palestinians.

Of course, according to the Palestinians, it is also true that the jews are the spawn of Satan (literally), that the "Protocols of the Elders of zion" are history, and 9/11 was a conspiracy the mossad.

More particularly, this story is by the same storyteller (the Palestinian Health ministry) who claimed the israelies "destroyed the northern wing" of a hospital who never had one, among many, many other lies.

Hey, what's not to believe?

Israel did start the Middle East Middle East arms race.

That might have something to do with being 600,000 among 150,000,000 bloodthirsty Arabs who want you dead. If you don't start an arm race under these conditions, you don't live long.

It appears it is now using weapons that are classifed as WMD.

According to same sources who also think that "it appears" that jews use Muslim blood in passover matzos.

There has just been another suicide bombing, that has killed many, and injured many.

That's OK, they're only jews. Doesn't count.
 
Hopefully now the PA itself will go after Hamas...

Jeez, why don't you hope for something more realistic--I dunno, instant immortality for everybody, or perhaps that the sky, starting tomorrow, will be purple, instead of that ol' boring blue? Wishing for an extra moon, just for beauty's sake, would be nice, too.
 
Skeptic said:
Hopefully now the PA itself will go after Hamas...

Jeez, why don't you hope for something more realistic--I dunno, instant immortality for everybody, or perhaps that the sky, starting tomorrow, will be purple, instead of that ol' boring blue? Wishing for an extra moon, just for beauty's sake, would be nice, too.

I was trying to strike a hopeful note. I'm certainly not holding my breath!

I wonder why Hamas broke the cease fire that they themselves helped negotiate?? Here's a possible tidbit I found:
The very concept of a hudna, an Islamic term that often is translated into English as ``cease-fire," has connotations of a temporary lull while the conditions of battle favor the opponent. Once conditions change to your favor, the hudna is broken and attacks begin again.

...I guess they think the balance has shifted?? :confused: Lesson learned: ...never trust an Arab bearing a "hudna". What good is such a maleable agreement in the first place?

-z

PS: Jeez, getting blasted for being a Polyanna is alot less satisfying, and more embarrasing than being vilified as a heartless neo-con! :o
 
Sundog said:


My views aren't monolithic. I'm conservative on some things, liberal on others. I don't understand the mental processes of people who have one solution to everything.

Okay,...make that the 5th time in 2 days!!

....don't say I didn't warn you. :hit:

Your reasonableness has been noted by the virulent lefties...I hear them whispering and pointing at you from the corners of the forum!!

-z

:D :D :D
 
By the way, I've just heard: israel officially cut all ties with the BBC for its broadcasting of this so-called "documentary". It must have been even worse than AUP describes it.

No doubt AUP was ecstatic as he was watching: "see? SEE?!! I TOLD you the dirty jew--- er, kike--- er, *cough*, *cough*, zionists are evil!!!"
 
rikzilla said:

I wonder why Hamas broke the cease fire that they themselves helped negotiate??
The suicide bomb was jointly claimed by Hamas and Islamic Jihad. The latter had been vowing revenge for the death of one of their leaders in the West Bank last week. That's one possible explanation.
 
Skeptic said:
No doubt AUP was ecstatic as he was watching: "see? SEE?!! I TOLD you the dirty jew--- er, kike--- er, *cough*, *cough*, zionists are evil!!!"
You can, of course, point to a post where AUP has referred to Jews as 'kikes'.
 

You can, of course, point to a post where AUP has referred to Jews as 'kikes'.


No, but I can point to quite a few where AUP excuses and justified the genocide of jews--for example, his "considered opinion" is that the Arabs were quite correct to start their war of annihilation against israel in 1948, but that this "isn't antisemitism" because it was limited to a "specific geographical area".

I can also point to quite a few posts where AUP accepts at face value just about ANY claim for "evil israeli crimes", no matter what the source or the circumstances--for example, the post which started this thread, where AUP (like the BBC) bought hook, line, and sinker the claims by notorious liars about "secret israeli crimes".

He doesn't use the word "kike"--it's just that he thinks it's quite justified for the jews to be mutchered "in a limited geographical area" for the imaginary "secret crimes" they are accused of. Which is like not using the word "ni**er", but instead considering it quite reasonable to demand all "african-americans" be re-enslaved.
 
Skeptic said:
In that case, while I realise this is an emotive subject for you, I would urge you not to falsely attribute anti-semitic hate-speech to other posters.
 
Shinytop said:
Ya, right. Any other fairy tales?

I am not an international scholar but I can tell the difference between sides by who they target. Busloads of shoppers, children, and infants are not legitimate targets. When the Palestinian side starts fighting military to military I will consider the value of each side's arguements. But when weddings and shopping malls are their favorite targets I consider them nothing but craven cowards.

Given that Israel has billions of dollars worth of modern arms, from nukes to tanks and jets and gunboats and helicopters, while Palestinians have guns and HE, to expect a traditional military face off on the field of battle is pretty naive.

I don't recall a wedding being a target, are you sure you are not confusing that with the Jewish wedding disaster that happened when a floor collapsed due to shoddy workmanship.

Those bombed yesterday were the extremists who are actively involved in depriving the Palestinians of their homes, from an area of Jerusalem that has been taking homes directly from Palestinians.

I was not raising this topic in response to these issues however, but in response to the show on TV last night detailing how Israel is an active user and owner of WMD, while being a party to no international treaties on their control.
 
rikzilla said:


Blowing up a bus load of civilians during the "road map" cease fire was a new low for Hamas. Hopefully now the PA itself will go after Hamas...that is if they're serious about peace. :confused:

-z

Watch it Sundog....this is the 4th time in 2 days we've been in agreement. You'll be wearing a neo-con label before long! :D ;)

You will find that Palestinians leaders have condemmed the bombing. Also note that, even after the start of the road map, Israel was still killing the leaders of Hamas and Al Aqsa, and still expanding settlements.

The roadmap is still very much a concept, not a reality.
 
Skeptic said:
(Shrug)

The Palestinians claim a lot of "awful things" israel is supposed to have done. Using "poison gas" is one of their favorites. Other include the claims that israel is using "radioactive weapons"(?), that it developed a special virus that kills only palestians (but not, mysteriously, other Arabs or levant jews), that israeli doctors "inject Palestinian children with the AIDS virus", that israeli agents created chewing gum that makes women sexually aroused in order to "destroy the morals of Arab society", and that the mossad put crocodile eggs in the Nile in order that the hatching crocodiles will eat Arab swimmers.

To give a few other examples, a couple of years back, they claimed that a palestinian whose face was burned when he died in a car crash that happened outside a jewish village, was "really" tortured by the jews having "put hot irons" on his face--the fact that they haven't even KNOWN of the accident until the driver was long dead notwithstanding. Recently, a palestinian "documentary" claims, israeli tanks "destroyed the northen wing" of an hospital in Jenin... the slight problem with the story being that the hospital in question NEVER HAD a "northern wing", destroyed or not. This was, by the way, at the same (after the pitched battle in Jenin) the palestinians brought to Jenin bodies from mourges all over the palestinian territories, in order to claim there was a "massacre".

Without exception, EVERY SINGLE TIME that the rumors of "israeli atrocities" were investigated, they were proven to be a propaganda fabrication. But since you WANT to believe israel is evil, you'd buy anything that says so, no matter how silly the rumor or how suspect the source.

Lets not get derailed with side issues, as you always like to do. The specific claims of this show are the issue.
 
rikzilla said:


I was trying to strike a hopeful note. I'm certainly not holding my breath!

I wonder why Hamas broke the cease fire that they themselves helped negotiate?? Here's a possible tidbit I found:


...I guess they think the balance has shifted?? :confused: Lesson learned: ...never trust an Arab bearing a "hudna". What good is such a maleable agreement in the first place?

-z

PS: Jeez, getting blasted for being a Polyanna is alot less satisfying, and more embarrasing than being vilified as a heartless neo-con! :o

If you read their justification, it was because of Israeli attacks on Hamas leaders. I am not saying that this was a reprisal that was warranted, but each side is just playing the old game of kill tag.
 

Back
Top Bottom