Fire, steel, and 911.

[CurtC]

I think they get it, but none of that matters to them because Larry Silverstein said Pull It and PNAC said they want a new Pearl Harbour.

Well, Silverstein did say "pull it," but PNAC never said they wanted a new Pearl Harbor.

...I read the news today...oh boy...

...Four thousand holes in our new poster's head...



Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Main Entry: res·o·nate [URL]http://m-w.com/images/audio.gif[/URL]
Pronunciation: 're-z&-"nAt
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -nat·ed; -nat·ing
intransitive verb
3 : to relate harmoniously : strike a chord <a message that resonates with voters>

So the writer believes this theory, yes?

"The structural damage from the planes and the explosive ignition of jet fuel in themselves were not enough to bring down the towers."

And he refers to this theory as a RESONATING THEORY!!! Who is it resonating with? Let's see - maybe with - respected members of the fire protection engineering community who are beginning to raise red flags

so multiple people came to NISTs conclusions even before the report was published

congratulations, you have no become self-debunking

"Rather, [resonating] theory has it, the subsequent contents fires attacking the questionably fireproofed lightweight trusses and load-bearing columns directly caused the collapses in an alarmingly short time. Of course, in light of there being no real evidence thus far produced, this could remain just unexplored theory.

 

[Porkpie Hat]

Bad news for you...I'm not gonna let you get away with your comments...I'm gonna haunt you with this. Firstly, it just sounds like you are giving a generic lecture on the properties of steel...PLEASE, let's keep it relevant to this one event. Firstly, what supernatural force caused the fires to cool so quickly? A blacksmith actually uses an agent like you know...water or oil - all we have here is a simple impact with fireball...than some small remaining fires that burn for a few minutes...you know, watch the video of the second impact and you'll notice that fires in the first building...can't even been seen from the outside, without a zooom shot.

First of all this will be my last post for a while as I do have a job. I'm trying to write reports, answer e-mails and my cell phone while doing this, my time is limited. But I'll be back so buck up little camper, it's a loooooong trail ahead.

My point is not to say that the fires cooled rapidly causing embrittlement of the steel, my point is that the NIST investigators will examine microstructure of the samples taken from the debris to analyze for heating/cooling rates of the steel. Grain structure will be a crucial indicator of how the steel was affected by the fires.

Horatius hit the nail square on the head. The randomness of the fires and the randomness of the heating and cooling played a huge part in why these buildings failed. Add to this the structural damage to critical members and........well if you can't figure out where I'm going with this then yer just plain dumb.


ps. you might want to edumicate yourself on thermal expansion as well. Theres many things at play here. There are no simple answers.

 

[28th Kingdom]

I am speechless.

 

[Porkpie Hat]

I am speechless.

Yaaaaaay!

 

[Mercutio]

Bad news for you...I'm not gonna let you get away with your comments...I'm gonna haunt you with this. Firstly, it just sounds like you are giving a generic lecture on the properties of steel...PLEASE, let's keep it relevant to this one event. Firstly, what supernatural force caused the fires to cool so quickly? [snip]

They didn't. The steel was still hot; your example of quenching is utterly irrelevant. The strengthening of steel that happens via the quenching process could not and did not happen with the structural steel in the tower; it was severely weakened by the heat, with no quenching to make it strong.

Yet once again, your examples come pre-debunked for your convenience.

 

[Horatius]

I am speechless.

Praise Jesus Hallelujah!

 

[Mercutio]

I am speechless.

Given your record so far, this is the one thing we can bet you are not.

 

[beachnut]

I am speechless.

Start here if you want something to do besides push standard CT junk form CT sites – http://wtc.nist.gov/oct05NCSTAR1-6index.htm

while silent read

then post your first fact

 

[rwguinn]

don't pound a lot of iron, do you?
Blacksmiths go to He!! for 2 reasons-- pounding cold iron and not charging enough

 

[Porkpie Hat]

They didn't. The steel was still hot; your example of quenching is utterly irrelevant. The strengthening of steel that happens via the quenching process could not and did not happen with the structural steel in the tower; it was severely weakened by the heat, with no quenching to make it strong.

Yet once again, your examples come pre-debunked for your convenience.

Quenching also increases embrittlement and decreases ductility. Too much ductility the structure can fail, not enough ductility the structure can fail.

Another consideration is sharp gouges (ie. damage caused by impact) in steel create stress risers. Cracks propigate from stress risers. Cracks lead to failure.

Again I'm being overly simplistic due to time constraints but will elaborate further at a later date.

 

[Mercutio]

don't pound a lot of iron, do you?
Blacksmiths go to He!! for 2 reasons-- pounding cold iron and not charging enough

In fairness, I think he was being sarcastic. I certainly hope so, anyway.

 

[rwguinn]

In fairness, I think he was being sarcastic. I certainly hope so, anyway.

I dunno, given his track record of "misunderstanding"
But we can hope a modicum of sanity remains...

 

[Horatius]

Quenching also increases embrittlement and decreases ductility. Too much ductility the structure can fail, not enough ductility the structure can fail.

Another consideration is sharp gouges (ie. damage caused by impact) in steel create stress risers. Cracks propigate from stress risers. Cracks lead to failure.

Again I'm being overly simplistic due to time constraints but will elaborate further at a later date.

Honestly, I don't think it's possible to be overly simplistic enough for this guy. Perhaps you could re-write a metallurgy text book in baby-talk, with a Handsome Frog as a main character, so he'll understand it?

 

[Porkpie Hat]

Honestly, I don't think it's possible to be overly simplistic enough for this guy. Perhaps you could re-write a metallurgy text book in baby-talk, with a Handsome Frog as a main character, so he'll understand it?

Maybe something like this: Jack and Bill went up the hill to weld a structural component..........?

Next he'll ask how this is all relevant.

 

[~enigma~]

he molten steel in the pits of the towers (which can only be created with the massive amount of heat generated by certain types of explosive devices) I can and will document this if you need me to.

Document how the moltem metal was only possible through the use of explosives. Also document what the pools of molten metal were.

 

[Horatius]

Maybe something like this: Jack and Bill went up the hill to weld a structural component..........?

Next he'll ask how this is all relevant.

Now you're getting it!

Don't forget the animated version, though. Remember, he doesn't really like all those nasty words 'n stuff.

[SockMode]I mean, component? Who knows what that means? Is that some kind of Shill Genius talk or what?!?![/SockMode]

 

[28th Kingdom]

I can try and debate the facts of the collapses..but I surely cannot save you from yourselves. You (NIST cultist) are so imbued with a belief...that says, "Anyone who disagrees with the government or an "official" report or theory, is an idiot," (perpetrated via cultural conditioning...including the public educational system and mass media) that you will distort and/or delete...BY ANY MEANS necessary...hard evidence that, in a court of law, would prove - beyond a shadow of doubt, that the PET is a FAR more logical and REASONABLE explanation for the collapses than the NIST fairytale. People who blindly accept NIST's report without question...are the true lemmings infected with the Stockholm Syndrome.

And, to all who want to label me as an idiot or sock or whatever...as an undying salute to your puppetmasters (yer such a tractable herd of woolmakers) well, all I can say is that I have an IQ over 150 and it's LOADED with a full arsenal of common sense...so, good luck with all that.

 

[Timble]

snip
...People who blindly accept NIST's report without question...are the true lemmings infected with the Stockholm Syndrome...
snip
...And, to all who want to label me as an idiot or sock or whatever...in an undying salute to your puppetmasters (yer such a tractable herd of woolmakers) well, all I can say is that I have an IQ over 150 and it's LOADED with a full arse...
snip

The Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in an abducted hostage, in which the hostage exhibits loyalty to the hostage-taker, in spite of the danger (or at least risk) in which the hostage has been placed.

So you don't know what the Stockholm Syndrome actually is...

You can't be infected by a syndrome, since a syndrome is a collection of symptoms that characterise a specific disease or condition. The syndrome's the result not the cause, so you don't actually know what a syndrome is.

And an observation, people who start flaunting their IQ score (even if correct) have generally run out of anything to say and are playing at arguing from authority.

 

[negativ]

I've seen fire and I've seen steel
I've seen nutty claims that I thought would never end
I've seen sagging floors when you could not see a bend
But I always knew that I'd see P'Doh again