Weak/Strong Atheism/Agnosticism

True--Time A, in this case, is a government-sponsored program which could distribute condoms. And does not, because it is restricted to abstinence-only plans. But since we have a separation of church and state, there could not possibly be a religious motivation for these programs.
 
What, if anything, are atheist groups doing to alleviate suffering in Africa, or anywhere else?

Oh. There are no 'atheist groups'. Just nit-picking blatherers throwing stones at organized religion while they do nothing.
 
Mercutio said:
True--Time A, in this case, is a government-sponsored program which could distribute condoms. And does not, because it is restricted to abstinence-only plans. But since we have a separation of church and state, there could not possibly be a religious motivation for these programs.
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To tell somebody to not have sex doesn't cost any money. To buy whole lots of condoms to be distributed indiscriminately for free does - and I think if the government is going to spend money on stuff they're going to just give away, it would rather that stuff was food and medicine.
 
hammegk said:
What, if anything, are atheist groups doing to alleviate suffering in Africa, or anywhere else?

Oh. There are no 'atheist groups'. Just nit-picking blatherers throwing stones at organized religion while they do nothing.
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So, you believe the only reason anybody is going to Africa to help alleviate suffering is because they're Catholic? I guess groups like the United Nations, Doctors Without Borders, and Amnesty International are so small that they just don't count.
 
Do you contend any of those agencies are atheist groups? As to the UN and 'help', ymmv.
 
hammegk said:
Do you contend any of those agencies are atheist groups? As to the UN and 'help', ymmv.
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not transparently, but functionally. At least I hope Doctors Without Borders attempts to make their decisions based on scientific, evidenced based principles.
 
hammegk said:
What, if anything, are atheist groups doing to alleviate suffering in Africa, or anywhere else?

Oh. There are no 'atheist groups'. Just nit-picking blatherers throwing stones at organized religion while they do nothing.
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Nope; you've fallen, no doubt deliberately so it serves you right, into the "Atheism is a ........." trap.

Atheists can be considered but not atheism. Where are the philatelist charities? The somnambulist charities? I bet you any amount you like that there are many atheists amongst Medecines sans Frontieres, Amnesty Internation and hundreds of smaller groups. You know very well that atheists don't have little weekly get-togethers for fundraising purposes, unlike churches. Maybe we should - maybe it's incumbent upon us to show these drooling religioapologists that atheism can make positive differences as well as negative ones like torture and genocide of all christians.

I certainly try to and I hope that others do, too. I'd love to see charities styled along the lines of:

"Kill gods, not kids"

"Feed the Hungry, not rich fat liars in vestments.*"


* As usual, not suggesting that cap fits all christians.
 
Dave1001 said:
not transparently, but functionally. At least I hope Doctors Without Borders attempts to make their decisions based on scientific, evidenced based principles.
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I see. Is being an atheist part of your selection criteria for your personal physicians?


The Atheist said:
Nope; you've fallen, no doubt deliberately so it serves you right, into the "Atheism is a ........." trap.
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One of us is in a trap. It's you if you actually believe that atheism has no more meaning than 'the group of people that don't collect stamps' does.

Where are the philatelist charities? The somnambulist charities?
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You are correct in noticing that do-gooder organization does require a shared faith.
 
hammegk said:
I see. Is being an atheist part of your selection criteria for your personal physicians?
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I see that's directed at Dave, but I'll let you know that I sacked our atheist GP and our current one is a staunch catholic.
hammegk said:
One of us is in a trap. It's you if you actually believe that atheism has no more meaning than 'the group of people that don't collect stamps' does.
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Well, it sure ain't me, because that's not my Straw Man.
hammegk said:
You are correct in noticing that do-gooder organization does require a shared faith.
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A shared something, absolutely, otherwise it wouldn't be a group. Not so sure it needs to be faith. Do numismatists have faith? Maybe they have faith that one day they'll turn up the 1935 sixpence?
 
Hammegk said:
I at least am sooo glad you are finally happy. Maybe you should define 'happy', though. And when you finish that, try for 'consciousness'. After that, explain what rational and logical meaning you assign to the word 'supernatural'.
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I agree that defining consciousness and supernatural is difficult. Note how I said that I'm not going to worry about what supernatural means. I'm just going to spew statements like "god is incompatible with materialism" without a care in the world.

~~ Paul
 
Hammegk said:
Oh. There are no 'atheist groups'. Just nit-picking blatherers throwing stones at organized religion while they do nothing.
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Hang on a sec. If there are no atheist groups, then who is this "they" you refer to? Do you mean individual atheists? If so, are you claiming that no individual atheists do anything about suffering in Africa? If so, you are wrong.

~~ Paul
 
I see. How many? Doing what? Where? Funding sources? Amounts? Time spent? etcetc.

As to "they"? We agree, there is no "they", just egos.



Tricky said:
In a privative sense.
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Did you thank dr.k for the new, big, word?
 
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Joshua Korosi said:
And which faith, exactly, is shared amongst the members of Amnesty International or Doctors Without Borders?
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Come on, Josh. Surely you have learned by now that belief, faith and even interest are all nouns that can be used interchangeably.

If you believe that helping the needy is good or have an interest in doing so, that is a faith.

Get with the program. Sheesh.
 
hammegk said:
I see. How many? Doing what? Where? Funding sources? Amounts? Time spent? etcetc.

As to "they"? We agree, there is no "they", just egos.
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Mate, I hate to tell ya, but you're on a loser this time.

Instead of asking questions, answer mine. Don't be an unter. The questions you're asking about atheists have no validity. Christians do charitable works because of their christianity. Atheists do charitable works because they want to.
 
Mercutio said:
Until that time, are you obligated to take a stand about these hypothetical forces? Or will you shirk your responsibility of holding a belief about them? And given an indeterminate number of possible concepts that may be true or false but which have no evidence to consider, how many of them do you feel the need to "have to consider that it might exist"? Could you list a few?

Seriously, does it make any sense whatsoever to measure the strength of my lack of belief in these as-yet undiscovered, unproven forces? This smacks of the Conspiracy Theorist "it's your responsibility to prove it didn't happen" mentality! This is the whole reason for burden of proof. What you are suggesting asks us to hold positive opinions on things that are not part of our world view--the fact that it happens to be the historically popular idea of a god or gods is the only reason anyone would give it a second thought, and IMO it is a pretty lame reason.
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If you look at religious claims it is easy to place the probability of the described gods to be extremely close to zero, however if you are looking at the "generic god" which is a super intelligent super powerful yet undetected force, then the probability cannot be estimated and cannot be placed close to zero. However the need to believe can be placed at zero.
 
The Atheist said:
Mate, I hate to tell ya, but you're on a loser this time.

Instead of asking questions, answer mine. Don't be an unter. The questions you're asking about atheists have no validity. Christians do charitable works because of their christianity. Atheists do charitable works because they want to.
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Actually, you could say they both do it because it feels good. But this leads to the question of "is there really a selfless act?" Maybe an atheist who sacrifices their life for someone. Christians couldn't make this claim.
 
joobz said:
Actually, you could say they both do it because it feels good.
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Yes, but being a cynic, I'd always wonder whether the christian feels good because he's done a good act or if it's because he thinks he's just nailed a few brownie points with his god.
joobz said:
But this leads to the question of "is there really a selfless act?" Maybe an atheist who sacrifices their life for someone. Christians couldn't make this claim.
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I think that's a fairly extreme example! Giving anything useful - money, objects, time, ideas - for the sake of giving is selfless.
 
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